Trades and Free Agency - 2022-23 Season Edition

[Gabriel426]

Honestly with the pending deals for both weegar and huberdeau, how weegar quickly became expensive and arguably not worth it - it didnt surprise me

I personally suggested trading weegar a couple times i think based on his upcoming contract and having montour take over

I know it is similar oreilly and tarasenko are like hubie and weegar and marner is like tkachuk

But honestly i dont see the situations even remotely close - st louis has the levwrage in this deal - and i dont see them even considering oreilly let alone all the other noise

And they have kyrou who has performed very well so far and disnt look out of place in the playoffs and signed

You might can see Hubie and Weegar getting dealt but no way you expected them to be dealt plus a 1st rounder for ONE player.

I don’t know enough about the Blues to know their directions and stuff but I do know that they didn’t resign Pietra, their Captain and pretty much signed Krug to a very similar deal. It could be Pietra didn’t want to sign with them or they just didn’t want to pay.
It could happen to Tank and ROR too. The Blues might want a different direction and think MM fits better with their timeline than ROR and Tank.

 

[andora]

You might can see Hubie and Weegar getting dealt but no way you expected them to be dealt plus a 1st rounder for ONE player.

I don’t know enough about the Blues to know their directions and stuff but I do know that they didn’t resign Pietra, their Captain and pretty much signed Krug to a very similar deal. It could be Pietra didn’t want to sign with them or they just didn’t want to pay.
It could happen to Tank and ROR too. The Blues might want a different direction and think MM fits better with their timeline than ROR and Tank.

Fair enough i guess

Blues gave petro a fair large offer - he didnt take it

Saad is their tarasenko replacement, lots of money for an oreilly raise and neighbors and bolduc coming.. buch saad and kyrou as top wings.. the former being able to play both sides

Overall lots of money to play with this offseason.. i cant see the appeal of marner

 

[Gabriel426]

Fair enough i guess

Blues gave petro a fair large offer - he didnt take it

Saad is their tarasenko replacement, lots of money for an oreilly raise and neighbors and bolduc coming.. buch saad and kyrou as top wings.. the former being able to play both sides

Overall lots of money to play with this offseason.. i cant see the appeal of marner

To me it is not about lacking money to resign ROR and Tank but rather the directions the team is heading.
As I said, I don’t follow the Blues enough to say, they are going to bring the crew back and have another one or maybe let’s take advantage of these two pending UFAs and retool.
My suggestion is based on Blues having a slow start, they have two pending UFAs in 30s and the Tkachuk deal as ref.
As for the appeal for MM, he is a top player in the league and I doubt any teams won’t have any interests in him.

 

[stickty111]

If it's Marner being traded, I don't want Dubas being the one to do it.

Sorry, but he loses trades more often than not. The return for Kadri was pitiful and a waste of our best asset, and the Murray trade shows he's learned nothing.

Dubas needs to stop trying to make "fair" trades and go for wins. I really don't feel that other GM's take him seriously.

Sorry but thats not true.
If GM's don't take him seriously, those GM's have problems.
Looks like the Robertson hype train has stopped

 

[jaric1862]

Gambling on Murray is still the thing that puzzles me the most in Dubas' tenure. Why would he gamble 4.7 million on it too?

I don't see what the issue was with betting on two young guys, who would at least be available for most games (Samsonov with someone like Hill, Comrie or Lankinen).

 

[Knies iT]

Dubas notable trades:

• Murray: loss (w/ full leverage)
• Mrazek: loss
• Giordano: win
• Dermott: even
• Ritchie: loss
• McCann: net loss (easy win if protected)
• Barabanov: loss
• Foligno: major loss
• Johnsson: even
• Kapanen: major win
• Marchment: major loss
• Campbell: even
• Kadri: major loss
• Zaitsev: even
• Marleau: loss
• Muzzin: even

Only arguable outcomes are Muzzin, Campbell, and Zaitsev; could be viewed as slight wins. So 2/16 clear wins, 5-7 neutral moves, but over 50% of transactions are clear losses with a few egregious face plants.

Yeah, this isn't the guy I want handling a core trade.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Dubas notable trades:

• Murray: loss (w/ full leverage)
• Mrazek: loss
• Giordano: win
• Dermott: even
• Ritchie: loss
• McCann: net loss (easy win if protected)
• Barabanov: loss
• Foligno: major loss
• Johnsson: even
• Kapanen: major win
• Marchment: major loss
• Campbell: even
• Kadri: major loss
• Zaitsev: even
• Marleau: loss
• Muzzin: even

Only arguable outcomes are Muzzin, Campbell, and Zaitsev; could be viewed as slight wins. So 2/16 clear wins, 5-7 neutral moves, but over 50% of transactions are clear losses with a few egregious face plants.

Yeah, this isn't the guy I want handling a core trade.

Yeah, I disagree with you assessment on those trades but I have already wasted enough time trying to justify it and people won't listen to reason.

 

[ToneDog]

Dubas notable trades:

• Murray: loss (w/ full leverage)
• Mrazek: loss
• Giordano: win
• Dermott: even
• Ritchie: loss
• McCann: net loss (easy win if protected)
• Barabanov: loss
• Foligno: major loss
• Johnsson: even
• Kapanen: major win
• Marchment: major loss
• Campbell: even
• Kadri: major loss
• Zaitsev: even
• Marleau: loss
• Muzzin: even

Only arguable outcomes are Muzzin, Campbell, and Zaitsev; could be viewed as slight wins. So 2/16 clear wins, 5-7 neutral moves, but over 50% of transactions are clear losses with a few egregious face plants.

Yeah, this isn't the guy I want handling a core trade.

One could argue the Giordano/Blackwell trade was a loss but resigning Gio was a win.

Rittich - loss

 

[hamzarocks]

Moving those guys would be a retool move too, and not one you make until the TDL.



Kadri wasn't worth more than what he returned at the time, and he sucked in the role he played so his value would have only got worse.

Naw dubas f***ed up the Kadri trade and his usage shouldn't have been at 3C

Nylander partially to blame for holding out and costing us a deadly duo with him and Kadri too

Kadri also to blame for his lack of composure in the playoffs

We should have gone a full on elite top 6

Shift JT or Kadri to wing and play

Marner, Matthews, Hyman, Kadri, JT, Nylander in the top 6 with Brown, AJ, Kap, Marleau, Moore and whoever in the bottom 6

Playing a guy like Kadri at 3C with Marleau and brown or a not fit Nylander screwed his season and hurt his value.

The Avs held onto Kadri after he f***ed up in year 2 with them and they were rewarded hugely

The target of the trade was also terrible. Barrie a pure Offensive RHD when we have Rielly for elite offense and PP abilities

Barrie was also a UFA. No way we'd be able to fit him back on a 7M-8M longterm deal if he had a 55-65 pt season that people expected

Our target was wrong and we should have tried to hold onto him and looked to deal AJ with Marleau to get rid of that contract

It's all hindsight now, but the results haven't worked out and there wasn't a rush to trade kadri

Yeah, I disagree with you assessment on those trades but I have already wasted enough time trying to justify it and people won't listen to reason.

Your not providing reason but rather a a strong bias.

 

[ToneDog]

Gambling on Murray is still the thing that puzzles me the most in Dubas' tenure. Why would he gamble 4.7 million on it too?

I don't see what the issue was with betting on two young guys, who would at least be available for most games (Samsonov with someone like Hill, Comrie or Lankinen).

ex-Soo goalie he was familiar with. Blew up in his face. Luckily we put him on LTIR so it won't hurt the cap.

 

[hamzarocks]

Dubas notable trades:

• Murray: loss (w/ full leverage)
• Mrazek: loss
• Giordano: win
• Dermott: even
• Ritchie: loss
• McCann: net loss (easy win if protected)
• Barabanov: loss
• Foligno: major loss
• Johnsson: even
• Kapanen: major win
• Marchment: major loss
• Campbell: even
• Kadri: major loss
• Zaitsev: even
• Marleau: loss
• Muzzin: even

Only arguable outcomes are Muzzin, Campbell, and Zaitsev; could be viewed as slight wins. So 2/16 clear wins, 5-7 neutral moves, but over 50% of transactions are clear losses with a few egregious face plants.

Yeah, this isn't the guy I want handling a core trade.

Muzzin was a win for 3 years so can't say its a slight win imo. It was a clear cut win. The leafs being a crap playoff team really hurt us there as Muzzin would have been better in later rounds had he been healthy

Marleau is a loss but mostly due to Marleau being a PoS. Refusing to waive his NMC and trying to act like he HD anything left in the tank thst would let him pick his spot. He sucked abd should've taken the first team that would take him so he could get that games played record

Overall, I agree dubas moves have not worked out. He's become a worse and worse trader every year.

Been a really solid drafter. Probably his best asset. Should be what Hunter was from 2015 to 2018 rather than our GM

 

[cyris]

Dubas notable trades:

• Murray: loss (w/ full leverage)
• Mrazek: loss
• Giordano: win
• Dermott: even
• Ritchie: loss
• McCann: net loss (easy win if protected)
• Barabanov: loss
• Foligno: major loss
• Johnsson: even
• Kapanen: major win
• Marchment: major loss
• Campbell: even
• Kadri: major loss
• Zaitsev: even
• Marleau: loss
• Muzzin: even

Only arguable outcomes are Muzzin, Campbell, and Zaitsev; could be viewed as slight wins. So 2/16 clear wins, 5-7 neutral moves, but over 50% of transactions are clear losses with a few egregious face plants.

Yeah, this isn't the guy I want handling a core trade.

I disagree with some assessments. Especially McCann. And you’re missing a couple trades that took place before Lou was the GM while Dubas in the interim GM.
The Kessel and Hyman trades were his too.

 

[Knies iT]

Yeah, I disagree with you assessment on those trades but I have already wasted enough time trying to justify it and people won't listen to reason.

Reason doesn't mean being bullish by default.

 

[hamzarocks]

I disagree with some assessments. Especially McCann. And you’re missing a couple trades that took place before Lou was the GM while Dubas in the interim GM.
The Kessel and Hyman trades were his too.

Hyman trade elite, Kessel trade terrible

 

[Gabriel426]

ex-Soo goalie he was familiar with. Blew up in his face. Luckily we put him on LTIR so it won't hurt the cap.

I think Dubas is lucky the MLSE is actually a board and not a person. Bc if I am the owner of MLSE and you traded for a 4.65mil player who only lasted ONE game and I need to pay for his salary, I would literally fire you on the spot. LTIR or not, you just wasted 4.65mil of my money.

I disagree with some assessments. Especially McCann. And you’re missing a couple trades that took place before Lou was the GM while Dubas in the interim GM.
The Kessel and Hyman trades were his too.

Looking at the two players being protected-Holl and Kerfoot. Think Leafs could have been better off either making the deal for McCann or not making the McCann deal with the Pens from the beginning.

 

[notdoneyet]

Dubas should be fired just for the goaltending situation alone

Trading for murray at 4,7m
This is a guy who his recent play was terrible and couldn’t stay healthy.
Big question mark there

Signing samsanov who couldnt make it as a backup in washington

So my question to Dubas would be your experimenting with two goalies who have nit priven themselves over the last three years, what is your backup plan if things
Dont work out

Kallegren thats your plan

 

[cyris]

I think Dubas is lucky the MLSE is actually a board and not a person. Bc if I am the owner of MLSE and you traded for a 4.65mil player who only lasted ONE game and I need to pay for his salary, I would literally fire you on the spot. LTIR or not, you just wasted 4.65mil of my money.


Looking at the two players being protected-Holl and Kerfoot. Think Leafs could have been better off either making the deal for McCann or not making the McCann deal with the Pens from the beginning.

Kerfoot wasn’t protected. They traded a busted prospect and a 7th for McCann with the express intent of losing one of him or Kerfoot in the expansion draft knowing they would still have the other as a backup top 6 center.
The entire point of the trade was that we would still have the same strength of roster after the expansion draft. We didn’t have the cap space at the time to add another 3m+ forward.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Realistically we're not going to get full value for Marner in any trade, I'd rather prioritize getting a piece that is a strong fit for our weaknesses than getting a lesser version of Marner + bonus value in picks and prospects unless we're doing a full teardown + retool where we need the extra liquid capital to bring in pieces that fit.

Agreed, I could see Nylander returning more than Marner because so few teams could fit Marner into their cap structure. Nylander having the potential to play center is probably attractive too

 

[Gabriel426]

Kerfoot wasn’t protected. They traded a busted prospect and a 7th for McCann with the express intent of losing one of him or Kerfoot in the expansion draft knowing they would still have the other as a backup top 6 center.
The entire point of the trade was that we would still have the same strength of roster after the expansion draft. We didn’t have the cap space at the time to add another 3m+ forward.

Well, maybe they should not even make the trade and just let Kraken take Kerfoot and use that 3.5mil on someone else or choose to protect Kerfoot and let Holl unprotected.

 

[Stephen]

Dubas notable trades:

• Murray: loss (w/ full leverage)
• Mrazek: loss
• Giordano: win
• Dermott: even
• Ritchie: loss
• McCann: net loss (easy win if protected)
• Barabanov: loss
• Foligno: major loss
• Johnsson: even
• Kapanen: major win
• Marchment: major loss
• Campbell: even
• Kadri: major loss
• Zaitsev: even
• Marleau: loss
• Muzzin: even

Only arguable outcomes are Muzzin, Campbell, and Zaitsev; could be viewed as slight wins. So 2/16 clear wins, 5-7 neutral moves, but over 50% of transactions are clear losses with a few egregious face plants.

Yeah, this isn't the guy I want handling a core trade.

In the long arc of time, the Giordano trade could turn into a loss as well if Seattle's picks become averagely serviceable guys. He didn't come cheap.

 

[MarMarSab3]

Done with Marner, what teams could offer an interesting package?

 

[Gabriel426]

Agreed, I could see Nylander returning more than Marner because so few teams could fit Marner into their cap structure. Nylander having the potential to play center is probably attractive too

I say trade them both and just retool with JT and AM.
Also, if MM is on the market, he will get more than his value like the Tkachuk deal and not the Eichel deal.

In the long arc of time, the Giordano trade could turn into a loss as well if Seattle's picks become averagely serviceable guys. He didn't come cheap.

I do agree with you but thats pretty much all TDL deals. I think the fact that Gio resigned for two more seasons is already a win in the trade. Ofcourse Seattle could pick the second coming of Point and Subban but they could also be guys who won't make it to the NHL too.

 

[cyris]

Well, maybe they should not even make the trade and just let Kraken take Kerfoot and use that 3.5mil on someone else or choose to protect Kerfoot and let Holl unprotected.

It cost us a prospect who had already stagnated and a 7th. Who cares?

 

[Gabriel426]

It cost us a prospect who had already stagnated and a 7th. Who cares?

Nobody cares bc that prospect is currently a nothing prospect now. What if he turns into another Marchment?
Also it is about assessing their own players, Kerfoot and Holl, esp Holl are just bad players

 

[cyris]

Nobody cares bc that prospect is currently a nothing prospect now. What if he turns into another Marchment?
Also it is about assessing their own players, Kerfoot and Holl, esp Holl are just bad players

Maybe they were assessing their own prospect?