Toggle sidebar

Trades and Free Agency - 2022-23 Season Edition

  • Work is still on-going to rebuild the site styling and features. Please report any issues you may experience so we can look into it. Click Here for Updates
Status
Not open for further replies.
stickty111 said:
Sorry but thats not true.
If GM's don't take him seriously, those GM's have problems.
Looks like the Robertson hype train has stopped;)
Click to expand...
Sorry but thats not true. We will agree to disagree. Other posters have tallied his trades, and he has lost more than he's won on the trade front, costing us exactly the kinds of players we are lacking. It's not a flattering list and not someone I would want to handle a trade for any of our core players, if it were to happen.
If GM's don't take him seriously, those GM's have problems. Not really. As a GM, it's Dubas' responsibility to manage his relationships with his peers. If his peers have a negative perception of him, who's fault is that: the no experience, no NHL pedigree newbie who comes across as thinking he's smarter than everyone, or a group of GM's who have accomplished at the NHL level as an executive, or player or both? I know who's got cred in my book....
Looks like the Robertson hype train has stopped: I know this is said in jest due to my incessant Malgin bashing, but Robertson hasn't done anything to lose faith in him. This Team is a tire fire, and I'm putting the "elite players" on blast before I look at Robertson. Robertson's effort continues to stand out to me, and he is one of the few players I see who is bringing an effort, and playing with more confidence than our core and established players. I wouldn't expect Robertson to light anything up with this team performing as it is, and in the complete disarray that it appears to be. I'm just glad to see he is not being left to stagnate on the Marlies, and is being given a chance to play with some talent. Kid is still 21 years old, and he deserves to continue to develop, and not be passed over by a 25 year old who still hasn't established himself in the NHL.

:)
 
  • Like
Reactions: dubplatepressure, geo25 and TMLAM34
Stephen said:
In the long arc of time, the Giordano trade could turn into a loss as well if Seattle's picks become averagely serviceable guys. He didn't come cheap.
Click to expand...

Though just because the other team ends up with something of value, doesn't necessarily mean it's a loss. The Leafs will have gotten two seasons worth of top 4 level play from Gio maybe even 3 depending on how next year goes.

I
 
  • Like
Reactions: Buds17 and uncleben
Menzinger said:
Though just because the other team ends up with something of value, doesn't necessarily mean it's a loss. The Leafs will have gotten two seasons worth of top 4 level play from Gio maybe even 3 depending on how next year goes.

I
Click to expand...
I agree with that premise when it comes to draft picks.

But it's different with younger players on progression arcs. See Moore. Most viewed that Campbell trade as a win at first because Moore was a 4th liner here, but now he's a 50pt PKer with 7pts in 10GP, so that trade is a wash at best in hindsight.

I would do the Muzzin trade again but it was a win-win trade where both teams benefitted.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kiwi, Menzinger and Minty Cowboy
Menzinger said:
Though just because the other team ends up with something of value, doesn't necessarily mean it's a loss. The Leafs will have gotten two seasons worth of top 4 level play from Gio maybe even 3 depending on how next year goes.

I
Click to expand...

There is also an assumption that just because a player did well on another team, that they would have been just as successful here.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rocker13, kb, dubplatepressure and 3 others
Menzinger said:
Though just because the other team ends up with something of value, doesn't necessarily mean it's a loss. The Leafs will have gotten two seasons worth of top 4 level play from Gio maybe even 3 depending on how next year goes.

I
Click to expand...

Depends on how the rest of this season goes and how much Liljegren and Sandin develop over that time with Giordano's tutelage, but the tangible return on the ice has been just okay.

Keep in mind, it's 2x second rounders with the first coming in the late 50's. Considering Knies, Robertson, Niemela, Hirvonen territory and everyone loves those guys. And there's a 3rd.
 
SeaOfBlue said:
There is also an assumption that just because a player did well on another team, that they would have been just as successful here.
Click to expand...

No, there's the assumption that the Leafs have thrived with picks in the 50s which now represent the backbone of the prospect pool. So 2x outgoing 2nd rounders could be something like a Robertson, Knies, Niemela, Hirvonen out the door. Not to cry over giving up value, but in time the Giordano deal will look like we paid full retail.
 
notdoneyet said:
Dubas should be fired just for the goaltending situation alone

Trading for murray at 4,7m
This is a guy who his recent play was terrible and couldn’t stay healthy.
Big question mark there

Signing samsanov who couldnt make it as a backup in washington

So my question to Dubas would be your experimenting with two goalies who have nit priven themselves over the last three years, what is your backup plan if things
Dont work out

Kallegren thats your plan
Click to expand...

I mean the Samsonov signing was good, considering the market for goalies. He's cheap, he only has one year of term, and he's still young.

The Murray signing was an unforced error. The only way they should've even thought of acquiring him was with half retention, and even then, it's not a great bet considering his injury history.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kurtz
Menzinger said:
Though just because the other team ends up with something of value, doesn't necessarily mean it's a loss. The Leafs will have gotten two seasons worth of top 4 level play from Gio maybe even 3 depending on how next year goes.
Click to expand...

We got a few months of Giordano as a top-4 calibre defenseman, then we signed him as a UFA. He also hasn't been top-4 calibre this season.

Still a good trade, since he helped us as a rental.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TMLAM34
LeafSteel said:
Sorry but thats not true. We will agree to disagree. Other posters have tallied his trades, and he has lost more than he's won on the trade front, costing us exactly the kinds of players we are lacking. It's not a flattering list and not someone I would want to handle a trade for any of our core players, if it were to happen.
If GM's don't take him seriously, those GM's have problems. Not really. As a GM, it's Dubas' responsibility to manage his relationships with his peers. If his peers have a negative perception of him, who's fault is that: the no experience, no NHL pedigree newbie who comes across as thinking he's smarter than everyone, or a group of GM's who have accomplished at the NHL level as an executive, or player or both? I know who's got cred in my book....
Looks like the Robertson hype train has stopped: I know this is said in jest due to my incessant Malgin bashing, but Robertson hasn't done anything to lose faith in him. This Team is a tire fire, and I'm putting the "elite players" on blast before I look at Robertson. Robertson's effort continues to stand out to me, and he is one of the few players I see who is bringing an effort, and playing with more confidence than our core and established players. I wouldn't expect Robertson to light anything up with this team performing as it is, and in the complete disarray that it appears to be. I'm just glad to see he is not being left to stagnate on the Marlies, and is being given a chance to play with some talent. Kid is still 21 years old, and he deserves to continue to develop, and not be passed over by a 25 year old who still hasn't established himself in the NHL.

:)
Click to expand...
Robertson and Malgin both looked fine last night in the short time they got to play with a good centre.
 
  • Like
Reactions: uncleben and ULF_55
Knies iT said:
Dubas notable trades:

  • Murray: loss (w/ full leverage)
  • Mrazek: loss
  • Giordano: win
  • Dermott: even
  • Ritchie: loss
  • McCann: net loss (easy win if protected)
  • Barabanov: loss
  • Foligno: major loss
  • Johnsson: even
  • Kapanen: major win
  • Marchment: major loss
  • Campbell: even
  • Kadri: major loss
  • Zaitsev: even
  • Marleau: loss
  • Muzzin: even
Only arguable outcomes are Muzzin, Campbell, and Zaitsev; could be viewed as slight wins. So 2/16 clear wins, 5-7 neutral moves, but over 50% of transactions are clear losses with a few egregious face plants.

Yeah, this isn't the guy I want handling a core trade.
Click to expand...

Yeah this paints a very clear picture. Dumping Zaitsev and Johnsson (and getting Anderson) was a win though even if Anderson doesn't become anything. Barabanov was a free wallet and as of today he's still not physical enough for the bottom 6, not good enough for the top 6. Muzzin trade was fair value as you say but at the time it was worth it to pay the premium to get our guy. Murray and Mrazek are his worst moves in terms of taking on bad players that are negative value. Marchment and Kadri are his worst moves in terms of giving up the far better player. And the Marleau deal for giving up Jarvis just to get rid of Marleau. This is a staggering amount of losses though.
 
jaric1862 said:
I mean the Samsonov signing was good, considering the market for goalies. He's cheap, he only has one year of term, and he's still young.

The Murray signing was an unforced error. The only way they should've even thought of acquiring him was with half retention, and even then, it's not a great bet considering his injury history.
Click to expand...
Im not knocking samanov i like what he has done so far

My point is both those goalies had warts with no guarantee they would or could be successful. Dubas has to realize there was a very good chance one or both would/could fail,

If he thought kallegren was the backup plan, a goalie whose stats are horrendous , then he deserves to be fired.
 
Knies iT said:
Dubas notable trades:

  • Murray: loss (w/ full leverage)
  • Mrazek: loss
  • Giordano: win
  • Dermott: even
  • Ritchie: loss
  • McCann: net loss (easy win if protected)
  • Barabanov: loss
  • Foligno: major loss
  • Johnsson: even
  • Kapanen: major win
  • Marchment: major loss
  • Campbell: even
  • Kadri: major loss
  • Zaitsev: even
  • Marleau: loss
  • Muzzin: even
Only arguable outcomes are Muzzin, Campbell, and Zaitsev; could be viewed as slight wins. So 2/16 clear wins, 5-7 neutral moves, but over 50% of transactions are clear losses with a few egregious face plants.

Yeah, this isn't the guy I want handling a core trade.
Click to expand...

Ritchie a loss? Got rid of a useless player, and contract, brought in a useful physical player?
Barabanov? Moved a useless player for us, so what if he's done well after.
Johnsson moved a contract, gained an asset.. win
Kadri, when you move out a problem, and get any asset it isn't a loss, more likely a win.
Zaitsev, shed cap, win
Muzzin easy win.
McCann traded what was basically nothing, got nothing back.

What's amazing, is these will be the same people who will complain, if we don't make that all in trade.

It's amazing the similarities to last year so far. Same record, same people running around doing the angry blame, sky is falling.. it was exactly like this last year.
 
  • Like
Reactions: blue stick, Dekes For Days and SprDaVE
SeaOfBlue said:
There is also an assumption that just because a player did well on another team, that they would have been just as successful here.
Click to expand...
This is the logical fallacy almost every poster makes.

It's insane. Take Kadri, we saw what he was here and it took being traded to smarten him up and realize he was pissing away his career.

Marchment never had more than 15 goals in a season anywhere in any real league before the NHL Like come on people......
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rocker13, Dekes For Days and SeaOfBlue
notdoneyet said:
Dubas should be fired just for the goaltending situation alone

Trading for murray at 4,7m
This is a guy who his recent play was terrible and couldn’t stay healthy.
Big question mark there

Signing samsanov who couldnt make it as a backup in washington

So my question to Dubas would be your experimenting with two goalies who have nit priven themselves over the last three years, what is your backup plan if things
Dont work out

Kallegren thats your plan
Click to expand...

Dubie thinks ke is smarter than everybody else when in reality, almost everybody on this board and most of the hockey community knew it. Hell Mess said it all summer long while Dubie's minions defended the move to nobody's surprise.

Dubas and Keefe are in over their heads and with Matty and Mitch not putting up good numbers, I introduce you to the team that Dubas built. #sad
 
notdoneyet said:
Im not knocking samanov i like what he has done so far

My point is both those goalies had warts with no guarantee they would or could be successful. Dubas has to realize there was a very good chance one or both would/could fail,

If he thought kallegren was the backup plan, a goalie whose stats are horrendous , then he deserves to be fired.
Click to expand...

Samsonov was an excellent signing. I would have given up good assets for him if Washington tendered him.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rocker13 and Menzinger
Fogelhund said:
It's amazing the similarities to last year so far. Same record, same people running around doing the angry blame, sky is falling.. it was exactly like this last year.
Click to expand...
The issue for many, myself included, is that last year was a failure, as was every year before it and I don’t want to see any similarities.
 
Malachi Crunch said:
Blockbuster:

To Toronto
Shane Wright
Jared McCann
Jamie Oleksiak

To Seattle
Mitch Marner
Rasmus Sandin
Click to expand...
I've thought Seattle would be a good trading partner for a while now. Don't think they'd part with Wright...he'd be the guy they'd be getting Marner to play with. BUT, they have many parts the Leafs need.

I would personally like to see a return including Larsson, Gourde, McCann, and Appleton. Marner being the far and above best player in the trade, I'm not sure what either side would have to add. But veteran toughness and a stay at home defenseman certainly fit the bill here. Building their team around Wright and Marner would suit them nicely as well.
 
  • Like
Reactions: garyrobertsforPM and Malachi Crunch
Americanadian said:
The issue for many, myself included, is that last year was a failure, as was every year before it and I don’t want to see any similarities.
Click to expand...

Last year's regular season wasn't a failure. It was the biggest regular season success this team has ever had. People overreacted early in the season last year, and they are again this year.

Allegedly, all that matters is playoff success, right up until we lose a few games in a bad fashion 10 games in, and people completely lose their sh$&. People are literally melting down, and angry at everything, and anything that has ever been done. I appreciate the nuances in repeating the same mistakes time and again, but it's premature. Missing two good D men, and our top player seems to have forgotten how to shoot. There is plenty of time to address challenges, maybe some trades, maybe we try other people in bottom six roles, Lilly will be back in the lineup soon, and Muzzin will either join him at some point, or LTIR and we'll trade for quality to replace him.

It's exactly like freaking out that the Jays had a bad first inning... there is a lot of runway to go here, and I understand the PTSD... but people freaked out at this time last year, for no reason... and it's going to be the same this season in all likelihood.

When we turn it around, there is going to be a ton of quotables in here. Playoff success, or failure isn't determined 10 games into regular season.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Rocker13, blue stick, Dekes For Days and 3 others
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Top Bottom