hockeynorth
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- Aug 31, 2017
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Trades and Free Agency - 2022-23 Season Edition
- Thread starter BertCorbeau
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Dreakmur
Registered User
Kept reading need to fire Dubas, Keefe and even Shanny then trade Willie to wake up the core.
Shanny is at fault for believing in Dubas’s vision and whatever he is selling.
Dubas is at fault for betting on the wrong players.
Keefe is at fault for being too scared to call his top guys out.
And if you want to shake up the core, trading Willie is far from the answer.
To me, Dubas or the new MGT needs to identify who are the guys that can win in the playoffs, who have the mentality to tough it up and elevate his games when the going gets tough. Then those who can’t, trade them away for players who can.
Shanny is at fault for believing in Dubas’s vision and whatever he is selling.
Dubas is at fault for betting on the wrong players.
Keefe is at fault for being too scared to call his top guys out.
And if you want to shake up the core, trading Willie is far from the answer.
To me, Dubas or the new MGT needs to identify who are the guys that can win in the playoffs, who have the mentality to tough it up and elevate his games when the going gets tough. Then those who can’t, trade them away for players who can.
Americanadian
Registered User
3 possible trades to shake up the core and change the culture.
Mangiapane for Nylander is an easy place to start. I proposed this multiple times this summer. They scored at the same rate last year. Nylander is a better playmaker, Mangiapane is a better defensive player. Calgary needs offense, Toronto needs more tenacity. Leafs save 1M on the cap for the next two years and get a third year.
Rielly for Lowry would be smart business. Rielly is being paid like a #1 defenseman but he is quite literally terrible at defense. Dubas would be smart to move on from his money while he still can. Everything that Rielly brings can be replaced by free agents for cheap. Leafs save 4.25M for the next 4 seasons.
Marner for Dobson might fix the 1RD position for the next 10 years. Leafs save 7M on the cap for the next 3 years while picking up one of the best young RHD. Marner is obviously a huge price to pay but it's much more difficult to find young top pair RHD than it is to find point per game wingers. Leafs can use the 7M to backfill a large portion of Marner's production in UFA.
All three trades are a loss of value in a vacuum but the Leafs save cap on all 3 while picking up players that play a different style.
Mangiapane for Nylander is an easy place to start. I proposed this multiple times this summer. They scored at the same rate last year. Nylander is a better playmaker, Mangiapane is a better defensive player. Calgary needs offense, Toronto needs more tenacity. Leafs save 1M on the cap for the next two years and get a third year.
Rielly for Lowry would be smart business. Rielly is being paid like a #1 defenseman but he is quite literally terrible at defense. Dubas would be smart to move on from his money while he still can. Everything that Rielly brings can be replaced by free agents for cheap. Leafs save 4.25M for the next 4 seasons.
Marner for Dobson might fix the 1RD position for the next 10 years. Leafs save 7M on the cap for the next 3 years while picking up one of the best young RHD. Marner is obviously a huge price to pay but it's much more difficult to find young top pair RHD than it is to find point per game wingers. Leafs can use the 7M to backfill a large portion of Marner's production in UFA.
All three trades are a loss of value in a vacuum but the Leafs save cap on all 3 while picking up players that play a different style.
Gavrikov would be the best target, true shutdown physical dman. Still haunts me how amazing he was against us in the playoffs
Maplebeasts
I See Demons!!!!!
Kurtz
Registered User
- Jul 17, 2005
- 10,494
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All 3 moves would be big downgrades and make us a far worse team. And honestly, your rationalizations for these moves are nutso.
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Americanadian
Registered User
Explain to me why the rationalization for all three of these proposed moves is "nutso".
Dragao6
Registered User
And then who scores?
Marner and matthews are top in the league
Their support is just aweful
When Muzzin and Murray come off the books we’ll have space to improve
When tavares contract ends we’ll really have space to upgrade
Question is what gm makes these upgrades? We can have space but still sign bad contracts or bad trades
I would bet the future to upgrade defence now with aggressive hard playing d men
1 for right and another for left
Robertson and sandin can go cause good players but not what we need. Wouldn’t mind giving Robertson abit more time but we have our goal scorers what we need is a hard playing support roster
Americanadian
Registered User
This is a good question. I didn't mean to imply that all 3 of those moves together is the way to go. I think either of them on there own would shake up the core. If the Leafs did execute all 3 they would be looking at
Bunting-Matthews-X
Mangiapane-Tavares-X
Kerfoot-Lowry-X
Engvall-Kampf-X
Where Robertson, Jarnkrok, ZAR, NAK can fill in this season and you use the combined ~12M in cap savings to sign or trade for another winger in the off season.
BertCorbeau
F*ck cancer - RIP Fugu and Buffaloed
Meh a knee jerk reaction trade isn’t what’s needed now. The issues run deeper than that. Let the core drown this team and look to shake it up in the off-season, while drafting as high as you can.
Agreed. Cant make a desperation trade now, you're gonna lose it.
And its not like trading Holl or Kerfoot or some other depth guy is gonna make a difference.
Dont bail these players out, let them try to figure it out. And if they cant, take your lottery pick and the new gm can decide where to go from there.
It's time for a huge shake up, Marner should be the one to go. Seems he's a bit of a drama queen
OVO16
#WeTheNorth
- Apr 16, 2017
- 10,730
- 10,825
No one is asking for a desperation trade. At least fire keefe and hire Trotz.
Dubas can leave in the off-season
Dubas can leave in the off-season
Not necessarily advocating for a kneejerk deal, but if one had to be made, I'd look at dealing Kerfoot first. He seems well enmeshed in the room, so it would likely be a 'shock' to the system, while at the same time he's replaceable (arguably Jarnkrok is his replacement one year early) and kind of meh all-around. Agreed that any Big 4 trade needs to wait until the off-season (for a wider array of potential suitors if nothing else).
Making a stupid trade because we are desperate would make our situation worse not better
I wouldn't fire the coach, this core has already quit on one and going through an endless cycle of coach firings isn't going to solve our problems either
If they continue to suck don't invest in them, sell at the deadline, get the highest pick possible and let's try to inject this organization with new talent while Matthews is still in his prime
I wouldn't fire the coach, this core has already quit on one and going through an endless cycle of coach firings isn't going to solve our problems either
If they continue to suck don't invest in them, sell at the deadline, get the highest pick possible and let's try to inject this organization with new talent while Matthews is still in his prime
SprDaVE
Moderator
- Sep 20, 2008
- 55,427
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To be honest, I'd definitely punt players right now to bring in a couple Marlies. Will anybody want them? Who knows.
Stephen
Moderator
- Feb 28, 2002
- 82,477
- 60,952
Yeah agreed. Right now that 1st round pick is the most important asset in the organization. Just let time dictate the right tear down approach.
Stephen
Moderator
- Feb 28, 2002
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- 60,952
Yeah, we could punt anybody from the revolving cast for anything, but when you think of the last round of Ritchie, Mrazek dumps did it really materially change anything?
Stephen
Moderator
- Feb 28, 2002
- 82,477
- 60,952
Maybe the right punishment is to do nothing and let them live with it through all 82. You can turn off the games. They still have to play them.
SeaOfBlue
The Passion That Unites Us All
- Aug 1, 2013
- 35,591
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For the right deal, you can probably afford to move a Kerfoot or Engvall. Wouldn't just take anything for them though, and I think that is a December move at the earliest.
On the PK, Engvall has always had good underlying numbers, but worse actual numbers. He's been more of the same this year with ZAR on the 3rd unit. Kerfoot has been one of the better PKers in the league since he has started PKing and has maintained that so far this year (both in actual and expected). Jarnkrok was a below average PKer the past few years but has done fairly well with Kerfoot on the 2nd unit. It has been the top unit (Kampf-Marner) which has been decimated thus far, but both had solid results last year.
Our PK could easily weather an Engvall loss, since his actual numbers are rarely spectacular and he is a 3rd unit PKer, but he has made our shutdown line significantly better in the few games since joining it. Kerfoot is tougher to replace in every regard since he is an important PKer and a top 9 forward. We'd need one of Nylander/Malgin/NAK/Robertson to step in as a full time #6 PKer in either scenario, and Engvall to step up as a 2nd unit PKer if we trade Kerfoot. We may also have some PKers on the Marlies, and Anderson specifically has 8 SH goals in his 83 game Marlies career, but the Marlies' PK has generally been trash since Keefe has left so IDK how effective those guys would be (or if it is more on coaching, which has been subpar since Keefe has left).
I doubt the Leafs trade either and replace them internally though, so it would be more than just moving them out for picks and switching things up for the sake of switching things up.
Jesus, most of our bottom 6 is so meh it's hard to imagine anybody wanting them, I certainly don't but if it's like this at the TDL I'd trade everything expiring for literally anything and guys with term if the deal makes sense
If these guys can't win it's time to find guys that can
Sounds like a very fitting punishment, if they are going to play like this they deserve some pain
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