Trades and Free Agency - 2022-23 Season Edition

[Fogelhund]

That first deal with the jackets is a huge no

Who says no? Jackets? Why do you say no?

 

[TheGreatOne11]

I have a scary feeling Dubas makes a big trade to try and shake up the team and keep his job. Chychrun comes to mind, fancy piece for sure, but not exactly what we need.

 

[kb]

Who says no? Jackets? Why do you say no?

IMO Peeke, while good, isn't an night and day improvement over Holl currently which is what would be needed in a win now situation. So that leaves Kerfoot, Niemela, and a 1st for Jenner (who is nearly 30).

I say Leafs pass.

 

[TheShape]

Boone Jenner took below market value to stay in Columbus on a rebuilding side. My guess is he chose to stay for personal reasons beyond hockey, also with a NTC I doubt CBJ trade him any time soon.

Would be nice to have Jenner at the same cap hit as Kerfoot though.

 

[Fogelhund]

IMO Peeke, while good, isn't an night and day improvement over Holl currently which is what would be needed in a win now situation. So that leaves Kerfoot, Niemela, and a 1st for Jenner (who is nearly 30).

I say Leafs pass.

At 24, Holl had THREE more years before he became a full time NHL guy. Peeke is already established as a guy who is one of the better defensive guys in the league, top 5 in blocked shots last year, top 15 in hits, is playing very well on the PK this year, and beginning to show more offense as well. Peeke's passing is fairly decent as well. He's young, and just had his first full season in the NHL, so he does make some mistakes, but his trajectory, and starting point is well above Holl. Holl is very good at the PK, and really kind of mediocre everywhere else... at best. In the right circumstances, Peeke will end up being known as a premier defensive player in this league in a few seasons, is a RHD... I think people will end up talking about him, in the same way Tanev, Manson get talked about... As Leafs fans, we tend to go after the players that have already reached Tanev/Manson brand name recognition, when we should be going after the next guy who will get there.

Jenner is their 1C, and Captain. (That he is their 1C, is part of their teams problem), but they aren't going to trade away their 1C, for Kerfoot and futures. I don't know that he waives that to move to a team where he is going to be the 3C, not get top PP time, nor the same level of responsibilities. His offense would drop, and his defense has never been top flight, though he is physical. While Jenner is great in the dot, I think I'd target someone who is better defensively to replace Kerfoot.

 

[Hockey 4 Life]

The leafs need a 3c and atleast a top 4 Rd. I'm willing to let Liljegren do his thing before a Rd acquisition but we need a very good 3c right now. My targets would be Horvat + Mayfield. With the proper amount of cap out we could extend both.

 

[Leafs1991]

IMO Peeke, while good, isn't an night and day improvement over Holl currently which is what would be needed in a win now situation. So that leaves Kerfoot, Niemela, and a 1st for Jenner (who is nearly 30).

I say Leafs pass.

Peeke would definitely be an improvement over Holl. I don't agree with this deal either as I don't want to trade Niemela and don't want Jenner, but a Peeke for Holl deal is a huge win.

 

[Dreakmur]

Not much out there I would even spend first round picks on anyways.

A guy like Connor Murphy, for example, seems like you are betting on him performing better with a strong team... Because his results with Chicago when they were not great have been very subpar. And he is not on a steal of a contract for what he brings, and he is not young anymore. Some of the deals thrown around for him are fairly ridiculous.

He’s actually been quite good considering his role on that team. He’s Toronto’s #2 if he showed up tomorrow. Additionally, he’s not a rental player. Murphy has 4 years left on a below market contract, so he’s pretty valuable.

Maybe I’m biased though, since I’ve been wanting to trade for him since the summer of 2019. Kapanen as an RFA and Dermott while he still had upside for Murphy and David Kampf if I remember right

 

[Dreakmur]

The leafs need a 3c and atleast a top 4 Rd. I'm willing to let Liljegren do his thing before a Rd acquisition but we need a very good 3c right now. My targets would be Horvat + Mayfield. With the proper amount of cap out we could extend both.

The Leafs have an excellent 3c in David Kampf.

With Muzzin’s regression and injury, we need two top-4 defensemen. I think Liljegren might be one when he returns, but we still need another. Brodie being able to play both sides means the handedness of that addition doesn’t matter.

We need middle six players who do more than take up ice time. Kerfoot, Jarnkrook, Engvall, and Malgin don’t make an impact.

 

[ULF_55]

The Leafs have an excellent 3c in David Kampf.

With Muzzin’s regression and injury, we need two top-4 defensemen. I think Liljegren might be one when he returns, but we still need another. Brodie being able to play both sides means the handedness of that addition doesn’t matter.

We need middle six players who do more than take up ice time. Kerfoot, Jarnkrook, Engvall, and Malgin don’t make an impact.

I really think they have to give Steeves and Anderson some ice time before they send any high draft picks away for bottom 6 players. Keep in mind next year there are going to be forwards coming of age they've drafted. So unless Kampf prices himself out of Toronto, they might not need go to market.

Hirvonen and Holmberg are going to be in the mix.

Personally, I'd support moving the 1st. for a term controlled defender, of either hand.

I don't put a lot of faith in training camp performance, other than rewarding those who do well with a few games to prove they can do that against NHL players who are up to speed.

Then you see how the players in the AHL do once they're up to speed, and not in an artificially created training camp environment.

And who is their next Cup winning Kaberle? Villeneuve, Niemela?

 

[dubplatepressure]

I have a scary feeling Dubas makes a big trade to try and shake up the team and keep his job. Chychrun comes to mind, fancy piece for sure, but not exactly what we need.

I mean we need defensive depth, he would surely help to some extent. However there's a point to be made that his strengths are not our weaknesses. IMO he'd still be our 2nd best D behind Rielly. Muzzin would need to go the other way to wash the cap (once he's healthy). We could also keep Muzzin and send Holl & Engvall, but then we have a lineup issue if / when Muzzin returns.

Chychrun / Lilly could be a scary good pairing, with Sandin locked on 3LD playing with whoever we can find to slot into that 3RD position.

 

[dubplatepressure]

He’s actually been quite good considering his role on that team. He’s Toronto’s #2 if he showed up tomorrow. Additionally, he’s not a rental player. Murphy has 4 years left on a below market contract, so he’s pretty valuable.

Maybe I’m biased though, since I’ve been wanting to trade for him since the summer of 2019. Kapanen as an RFA and Dermott while he still had upside for Murphy and David Kampf if I remember right

I'd love to try out Connor Murphy here. He brings a lot more of what the team lacks than Chychrun. Hell, I'd love to see both of these guys.

Rielly - Lilly
Chychrun - Murphy
Sandin - Brodie
Gio

pretty solid IMO. Would cost us a lot, but that's an all-in blue line. Muzzin's cap space would clear one of Chychrun or Murphy, and Holy + Engvall would clear the other.

 

[kb]

At 24, Holl had THREE more years before he became a full time NHL guy. Peeke is already established as a guy who is one of the better defensive guys in the league, top 5 in blocked shots last year, top 15 in hits, is playing very well on the PK this year, and beginning to show more offense as well. Peeke's passing is fairly decent as well. He's young, and just had his first full season in the NHL, so he does make some mistakes, but his trajectory, and starting point is well above Holl. Holl is very good at the PK, and really kind of mediocre everywhere else... at best. In the right circumstances, Peeke will end up being known as a premier defensive player in this league in a few seasons, is a RHD... I think people will end up talking about him, in the same way Tanev, Manson get talked about... As Leafs fans, we tend to go after the players that have already reached Tanev/Manson brand name recognition, when we should be going after the next guy who will get there.

Jenner is their 1C, and Captain. (That he is their 1C, is part of their teams problem), but they aren't going to trade away their 1C, for Kerfoot and futures. I don't know that he waives that to move to a team where he is going to be the 3C, not get top PP time, nor the same level of responsibilities. His offense would drop, and his defense has never been top flight, though he is physical. While Jenner is great in the dot, I think I'd target someone who is better defensively to replace Kerfoot.

But the thing is.....does that trade move the needle enough today? IMO, no.

The Leafs aren't building for the future - they are a win now team. Peeke is good, but he's not an allstar, and as of today he is not a huge upgrade on Holl. Sure he may develop into a better player, but at this point he's even got less offense than Holl, and the Leafs are giving up a #1 and their #1 RD prospect.

Jenner is a #1C like Matt Stajan was a #1C. By default. Someone has to be #1C, and that player will get prime minutes and touches. Here he'd be a #3C. There is no world where a team should be giving up that package for a slight/moderate upgrade on D and a #3C whose minutes and touches - not to mention role - will be significantly different.

Take away Niemela or the first and it gets more palatable.

 

[Fogelhund]

Under an assumption that Muzzin and Murray are on the LTIR for the season, we have enough cap space to pick up.... Reimer, Lowry, Chychrun, Peeke and still have a 22 man roster. That's with moving only Holl out of the lineup, keeping Kerfoot and Engvall. That doesn't include Knies in the roster, if he's ready.

Of course the bigger question becomes... how would we actually be able to afford all of those guys in terms of trading assets. That would cost a ton to trade for. The bright side, is everyone on that list has term, except for Reimer.

If you are of the opinion, that Chychrun and Murphy were the right targets, Kerfoot and Holl have to be moved, and you can only run a 21 man roster. Or you move Engvall and bring up two bodies, and have a 22 man roster again. Still, it's how do we afford all of those moves.

(Noting, I included Lowry, as at an earlier date I had assumed Jets would be a tire fire. They are second in their division so that probably needs a rethink... but it could be someone like Lowry from a struggling team, as much as his size and ability would be attractive).

 

[Crosscrease14]

The Defence is such a mess it's easy to forget what a tire fire the goaltending situation is.

I know it's been discussed a lot but moving Muzzin could have done a lot for the team. Even more so if they were proactive when Weegar was offered for Dermott + Johnsson.

Clock is ticking to pull it together.

 

[Fogelhund]

But the thing is.....does that trade move the needle enough today? IMO, no.

The Leafs aren't building for the future - they are a win now team. Peeke is good, but he's not an allstar, and as of today he is not a huge upgrade on Holl. Sure he may develop into a better player, but at this point he's even got less offense than Holl, and the Leafs are giving up a #1 and their #1 RD prospect.

Jenner is a #1C like Matt Stajan was a #1C. By default. Someone has to be #1C, and that player will get prime minutes and touches. Here he'd be a #3C. There is no world where a team should be giving up that package for a slight/moderate upgrade on D and a #3C whose minutes and touches - not to mention role - will be significantly different.

Take away Niemela or the first and it gets more palatable.

Peeke will put up more points this year, than Holl's career year. He put up 6 points, in 10 games with USA at the WC's (More points than Seth Jones and Luke Hughes at the tournament), he's on pace for 27 points this year. No, he's not an allstar, neither is Murphy, or Chychrun for that matter.

I understand that about Jenner. But he is their 1C, and they can't really afford to move him for that reason. I'm not saying he is a 1C, and noted that was a problem for them. But to send them Kerfoot, resulting in either Kerfoot, or Roslovic being their 1C, would be laughably problematic for them. I think Jenner is the wrong target, and just wouldn't include him, nor would Columbus move him, without a massive overpay. Sean Kuraly might be more obtainable from them, fit the budget better...

The Defence is such a mess it's easy to forget what a tire fire the goaltending situation is.

I know it's been discussed a lot but moving Muzzin could have done a lot for the team. Even more so if they were proactive when Weegar was offered for Dermott + Johnsson.

Clock is ticking to pull it together.

The bolded appears to be an urban myth.

 

[BertCorbeau]

With the Ducks off to a poor start (1 in so far on the year), they're positioning themselves to be in selling mode. Klingberg took a 1 year show me deal and only has 2 assists in 8 games. I wonder if there is a buy-low opportunity.

Would be an upgrade over Holl and his play style would gel with this team. If it works well, he might be able to be re-signed at a fair price (will be 31 this off-season).

Rielly-Brodie
Gio-Liljegren
Sandin-Klingberg

Stolarz would be another name if Murray's injury is an issue all year. Should be an upgrade over Kallgren.

 

[Fogelhund]

With the Ducks off to a poor start (1 in so far on the year), they're positioning themselves to be in selling mode. Klingberg took a 1 year show me deal and only has 2 assists in 8 games. I wonder if there is a buy-low opportunity.

Would be an upgrade over Holl and his play style would gel with this team. If it works well, he might be able to be re-signed at a fair price (will be 31 this off-season).

Rielly-Brodie
Gio-Liljegren
Sandin-Klingberg

Stolarz would be another name if Murray's injury is an issue all year. Should be an upgrade over Kallgren.

Klingberg has become a tire fire defensively, not that it was ever his strength. IMO, we need a defensive upgrade, not an offensive player, who is weak defensively. This would be like obtaining a poorer version of Barrie again.

I don't think Stolarz is a good choice for us, but if we are calling Ducks, I'd ask about Comtois, who seems to need a change of scenery, though we really may not need LW's soon.

 

[Hockey 4 Life]

I'd target horvat for 3c and 1 LW. He can be moved around the line up as needed and can probably be extended for 7 mill x 7. Muzzin covers his contract this year.
To
Van
2023 1st, 2024 2nd, kerfoot, Holl
For
Horvat, Schenn

For D Id target Gavrikov. Hes the best shutdown D potentially availible and can probably be extended for 4.5 million x 7 on his extention.
To
Jackets
2024 1st, Kral, Engvall
For
Gavrikov

Playoffs

Bunting Matthews Marner
Robertson Tavares Jarnkrok
Knies Horvat Nylander
Mcmann Kampf Simmomds

Reilly Brodie
Gavrikov Liljegren
Sandin Schenn

Samsonov
Murray

 

[TMLAM34]

Gavrikov is more of a possibility than Peeke considering he’s an upcoming UFA.

Then use Sandin as trade bait for a RHD.

 

[Fogelhund]

I'd target horvat for 3c and 1 LW. He can be moved around the line up as needed and can probably be extended for 7 mill x 7. Muzzin covers his contract this year.
To
Van
2023 1st, 2024 2nd, kerfoot, Holl
For
Horvat, Schenn

For D Id target Gavrikov. Hes the best shutdown D potentially availible and can probably be extended for 4.5 million x 7 on his extention.
To
Jackets
2024 1st, Kral, Engvall
For
Gavrikov

Playoffs

Bunting Matthews Marner
Robertson Tavares Jarnkrok
Knies Horvat Nylander
Mcmann Kampf Simmomds

Reilly Brodie
Gavrikov Liljegren
Sandin Schenn

Samsonov
Murray

If Vancouver is interested in moving Horvat, and he'd extend with something we could afford, that would be a great add.

Gavrikov is indeed a pretty good shutdown guy, but Columbus currently lack LHD, and have a surplus of RHD. Their only quality LHD would be Werenski. That being said, they have a ton of LHD prospects, who are likely 2-3 years away, so Kral wouldn't be very attractive to them either.

 

[Fogelhund]

Gavrikov is more of a possibility than Peeke considering he’s an upcoming UFA.

Then use Sandin as trade bait for a RHD.

Except Columbus have a surplus of RHD, and lack LHD. I'd suggest Peeke is more likely to be moved of the two.

LHD
Werenski
Gavrikov
Bayreuther
Christiansen
Prospects


RHD
Gudbranson
Peeke
Bean
Jiricek
Sweezy
Bjork

 

[Leafs1991]

I'd target horvat for 3c and 1 LW. He can be moved around the line up as needed and can probably be extended for 7 mill x 7. Muzzin covers his contract this year.
To
Van
2023 1st, 2024 2nd, kerfoot, Holl
For
Horvat, Schenn

For D Id target Gavrikov. Hes the best shutdown D potentially availible and can probably be extended for 4.5 million x 7 on his extention.
To
Jackets
2024 1st, Kral, Engvall
For
Gavrikov

Playoffs

Bunting Matthews Marner
Robertson Tavares Jarnkrok
Knies Horvat Nylander
Mcmann Kampf Simmomds

Reilly Brodie
Gavrikov Liljegren
Sandin Schenn

Samsonov
Murray

Horvat is going to cost a fortune at the rate he's going.

 

[TMLAM34]

Except Columbus have a surplus of RHD, and lack LHD. I'd suggest Peeke is more likely to be moved of the two.

LHD
Werenski
Gavrikov
Bayreuther
Christiansen
Prospects


RHD
Gudbranson
Peeke
Bean
Jiricek
Sweezy
Bjork

Neither side looks very good to be honest… I think they’ll take any upgrade at this rate.

 

[andora]

Neither side looks very good to be honest… I think they’ll take any upgrade at this rate.

Then you need to offer them one ;-)