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Trades and Free Agency - 2022-23 Season Edition

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SprDaVE said:
I think there will be plenty of patience in the next month or so for the team to find their groove. Some teams start slow, some start hot, etc. Last year the Leafs were god awful in October. It's mind boggling how bad they've been though again.
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4-3, and about 6 goals short from Matthews/Marner alone.
 
notdoneyet said:
Trade with Chicago for 50% retained for Kane and Murphy
Sandin,engvall,nielma 1st in 2023,1st in 2024

Run

Bunting Matthews kane
Knies Tavares marner
Robertson jarnrok nylander
Zak Kampf AK
Malgin simmons

Reilly Lilly
Brodie murphy
Gio holl
Mete or benn

Sam
Matt

Gone sandin engvall KERFOOT
LTIR muzzin for year and everything fits under cap
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This seems kinda fair? Not sure it would take the extra 1st rounder since we're giving up Sandin, but it will take a huge package like that so I don't think it's that far off.

I'd also dump Holl over Engvall in this scenario.

Robertson Matthews Kane
Nylander Tavares Marner
Bunting Jarnrok Malgin
Engvall Kampf NAK
ZAR, Simmons

Reilly murphy
Gio Brodie
Mete Liljegren
Benn
 
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How bad of an off-season did we have?

We have to restructure the whole defense and bottom 6, 10 games into the season.
 
Duffman955 said:
How bad of an off-season did we have?

We have to restructure the whole defense and bottom 6, 10 games into the season.
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Do we? Not sure there's any reason to restructure major parts of the team at all. With that said, a lot of the depth and energy players have been very disappointing so far, and mix the fact that our elite level players have been average, it's not a good mix.

Nylander and Tavares are carrying this team on their back offensively, just like early last year. This team will never go anywhere if Matthews and Marner aren't playing like they need to be on a consistent basis.
 
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Duffman955 said:
How bad of an off-season did we have?

We have to restructure the whole defense and bottom 6, 10 games into the season.
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Relax man.

Restructure the whole defense and bottom 6? That's a pretty extreme hot take.

How bad was the offseason? Which offseason? The one where we drafted Rielly, or when we traded for Muzzin? I mean those are the problems right? The Muzzin injury and potential retirement issue, and Rielly playing poorly... and that's to be blamed on the off-season? Really?

The bottom six... I mean we are at game 7. Clearly it's not working out right now, but it very well could be that our final answer to the bottom six, includes players we already have... in which case it wasn't a bad offseason at all. Perspective and patience is required, not what happened in last games referendum panic mode.

Noting, we are 4-3, and last year we were 2-4-1 at the same point, and somehow managed to set a team record in points.
 
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Fogelhund said:
Relax man.

Restructure the whole defense and bottom 6? That's a pretty extreme hot take.

How bad was the offseason? Which offseason? The one where we drafted Rielly, or when we traded for Muzzin? I mean those are the problems right? The Muzzin injury and potential retirement issue, and Rielly playing poorly... and that's to be blamed on the off-season? Really?

The bottom six... I mean we are at game 7. Clearly it's not working out right now, but it very well could be that our final answer to the bottom six, includes players we already have... in which case it wasn't a bad offseason at all. Perspective and patience is required, not what happened in last games referendum panic mode.

Noting, we are 4-3, and last year we were 2-4-1 at the same point, and somehow managed to set a team record in points.
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Wtf are you talking about. How is the Muzzin thing not an off-season issue?

He's been often injured and declining over the last 2 years. He's also our best shutdown defense. We have no backups to him. Who the f*** are we throwing out against other teams top lines? This is something that should be taken care of in the off-season

Our 3 guys that are bottom 6 signings, have combined for 2 points. Lmfao

Is it panic time? No. Do I see this team being better than last year... not likely. The goal is to improve in the off-season and we clearly didn't.

Only way we do better is if our top 4 guys are significantly improved from last year.
 
Fogelhund said:
Relax man.

Restructure the whole defense and bottom 6? That's a pretty extreme hot take.

How bad was the offseason? Which offseason? The one where we drafted Rielly, or when we traded for Muzzin? I mean those are the problems right? The Muzzin injury and potential retirement issue, and Rielly playing poorly... and that's to be blamed on the off-season? Really?

The bottom six... I mean we are at game 7. Clearly it's not working out right now, but it very well could be that our final answer to the bottom six, includes players we already have... in which case it wasn't a bad offseason at all. Perspective and patience is required, not what happened in last games referendum panic mode.

Noting, we are 4-3, and last year we were 2-4-1 at the same point, and somehow managed to set a team record in points.
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Even Rielly looks poised for a bounce back, just like Brodie. His PDO is .935 right now. That will almost certainly go up. A lot of that helps when Matthews/Marner start to produce and this team doesn't need to go full press just to get the offense to make up for it.

Once Liljegren comes back over Mete (who hasn't been awful but Liljegren can chew up tougher minutes), then I think our defense will be fine.

The real issue is Matthews/Marner. Sure the 4th line has sucked and Engvall missing most of preseason didn't help him gain chemistry on the 3rd line, but that is not a tough fix... Put Malgin with Kerfoot (he did well with him in preseason) and put Engvall back with Kampf. Engvall and Kampf were excellent together last year. Then we are just figuring out which of our half a dozen options can suck the least as a 12th forward. I am sure one of NAK, ZAR, Anderson, Simmonds, Steeves, Abruzzese, etc. can figure it out enough to take the reins on that job eventually.

But I would say other than that the Vegas and Dallas games, the Leafs handily win every game if we were getting the GPG baseline expectation out of that top line... And we would still have made both of those games competitive despite sucking overall (we did beat Dallas after all). GPG is still underperforming for that line but it is better than the 4 goals in 7 games they are currently doing.
 
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I'm intrigued and interested to see what wonders we could potentially get by trading Holl, Kerfoot, Niemela and a 1st.

There must be teams super interested in Holl and Kerfoot.
 
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Duffman955 said:
Wtf are you talking about. How is the Muzzin thing not an off-season issue?

He's been often injured and declining over the last 2 years. He's also our best shutdown defense. We have no backups to him. Who the f*** are we throwing out against other teams top lines? This is something that should be taken care of in the off-season

Our 3 guys that are bottom 6 signings, have combined for 2 points. Lmfao

Is it panic time? No. Do I see this team being better than last year... not likely. The goal is to improve in the off-season and we clearly didn't.

Only way we do better is if our top 4 guys are significantly improved from last year.
Click to expand...

You claim it isn't panic time, but than have you even read your post?

Matthews is shooting 3%... if he's shooting at his normal 16.2%, we are 6-1...

------------------

Muzzin.. and what did you expect, or hope to be done about Muzzin in the offseason? Move the guy with the NTC, who you claim is declining? Why does he decide to waive, and what is the cost to move him if he's in such decline?

You do realize the goal here is to have the best team structure for the playoffs right? You do realize that's a long time from now, and what's happened seven games into the season isn't a big deal. In fact, if he's done, and LTIRetired, that is likely one of the best outcomes for the Leafs. Again, our record this year is better than last years, and we somehow managed to get things right in the regular season last year.

again...on the bottom six... it's seven games into the season. Literally, if you are worked up about the bottom six, while not mentioning Matthews and Rielly's play (which are the major problems), you've completely missed the boat. We've got a number of players that can fill the bottom six spots... If these guys don't work out, who cares...(Someone else will take that spot) our season doesn't depend on the 4th line. It depends on our best players, being our best players... Our best forward, and best D, have sucked so far.... be concerned about that... not replacement level players, who are easily replaced. (and possibly internally)
 
Fogelhund said:
You claim it isn't panic time, but than have you even read your post?

Matthews is shooting 3%... if he's shooting at his normal 16.2%, we are 6-1...

------------------

Muzzin.. and what did you expect, or hope to be done about Muzzin in the offseason? Move the guy with the NTC, who you claim is declining? Why does he decide to waive, and what is the cost to move him if he's in such decline?

You do realize the goal here is to have the best team structure for the playoffs right? You do realize that's a long time from now, and what's happened seven games into the season isn't a big deal. In fact, if he's done, and LTIRetired, that is likely one of the best outcomes for the Leafs. Again, our record this year is better than last years, and we somehow managed to get things right in the regular season last year.

again...on the bottom six... it's seven games into the season. Literally, if you are worked up about the bottom six, while not mentioning Matthews and Rielly's play (which are the major problems), you've completely missed the boat. We've got a number of players that can fill the bottom six spots... If these guys don't work out, who cares...(Someone else will take that spot) our season doesn't depend on the 4th line. It depends on our best players, being our best players... Our best forward, and best D, have sucked so far.... be concerned about that... not replacement level players, who are easily replaced. (and possibly internally)
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Long story short. You think we improved this year?
 
Duffman955 said:
Long story short. You think we improved this year?
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Is this a serious question after SEVEN games?

How the hell would I know if we have success in the playoffs this year, after SEVEN games? That's the bar right? Did we win rounds in the playoffs?

Nearly every single season, the lineup from game one of the season, to the first game of the playoffs, changes between four to six players...

What I do know, is our record is actually better this year at this point, than last year, and most of our best players, are not playing that way. What I do know, is that it's a long season, and there will be additions and subtractions from the roster, as there always is.

SEVEN games into a very long season, and you are doing this? Has the Stanley Cup been awarded, and we missed out because of these SEVEN games?

Ask yourself... what is the goal for the year? When the year started, was the most important thing to you, our record after seven games, or playoffs success? Every year... four to six roster changes before the playoffs... That's NORMAL.

Yes, there is work to do, lines to be sorted, additions to be made, subtractions...and all that matters, is we have the best team we can... going into the playoffs... not at game seven.

game SEVEN!!!
 
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Duffman955 said:
Long story short. You think we improved this year?
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If the goaltending improves, then easily.

Muzzin was a major liability in the regular season last year, so he is actually not a huge loss... Especially if he does come back at some point or we can use that money effectively. We have a full year of hopeful improvement from Liljegren/Sandin, a full year from Gio, and we still have Holl/Brodie/Rielly from last year and we should not expect major regression from any of them at this point. If we improve our defensive depth a bit (it has been hit by injuries as well), then we are in a better spot than last year.

Up front, we still have our Core 4. We still have Bunting. We still have Kerfoot. We still have Kampf and Engvall. The only truly impactful guy we lost was Mikheyev, and I don't think Jarnkrok is any kind of major downgrade on him. At the very least I would hope that any kind of downgrade is more than covered by the upgrades from Simmonds/Blackwell/Clifford to Malgin, ZAR, NAK, and Robertson.

And that is before any prospect additions (we have a bunch who could be mid-season call-ups, and that excludes Knies) or trades.
 
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If the Leafs and Hurricanes both have disappointing endings to the season/playoffs, would people be happy or upset about a major blockbuster trade of Marner for Svechnikov? Who wins?
 
Menzinger said:
If Matthews does end up having no desire to stay with the Leafs, I doubt he'd block any trades in order to stay. It would be counter productive.
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Not necessarily. Plenty of situations are worse than riding out one year with the Leafs.

4thline said:
Depends on that one team and whether they are currently competitive(ish). Trading for him would get him in their lineup a year earlier and open up the option for an 8th season. Plus they'd likely have to move decent cap out to fit him in.

Max Pacioretty is no where near Auston and got back a very high end prospect, a top 6 winger with term, and a 2nd rounder.
Karlsson would probably be closer in value, got back a recent 1st, young D with potential, young 3c, two prospects (one a recent 1st), a 1st, a 2nd, and a now illegal conditional 1st.

If it comes to pass losing him will suck, and we likely won't get full value in trade, but with a decent negotiation, a good scouting department, and a strong UFA period with the freed up cap it wouldn't have to be a disaster in the short or long term.
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Yeah, they'll get something for sure.

But thats a tough set of circumstances to come out looking you got a decent deal
 
ACC1224 said:
I wouldn’t assume they’ll fall out of the race.
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Their D corps is brutal. This is their point projection at the Athletic without Laine.

1666804164185.png
 
Duffman955 said:
On paper what part of our roster improved from last year? I don't see much. I don't know if you do

To see playoff success we are banking on internal improvements since not much help has come from the offseason.
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On paper? Our goaltending, everything else remains largely unchanged.

People are overreacting to a 7 game sample, also are forgetting how poor the goaltending and bottom 6 was last season.
 
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I think two statements are facts. 7 games is a small sample size. Fans are permitted to expect more from the Leafs who think themselves a champion-tier team. Our coach has called our core for a lack of effort, already 2 times in that noted very small sample size.

This is the second year in a row we acquired a goalie with term after a season of barely playing (Mrzaek, Murray). Both instances are big risky commitments. Murray going down after 1 game for a month is bad luck yes, but nobody is surprised, this is quite predictable - same with Muzzin's injury.

Personally I don't get upset if we lose, moreso how we lose. We shouldn't be losing like we did to Arizona and the Habs, teams who came 32nd and 31st. There are problems here, we're not showing up against bad teams, or we can't penetrate when teams are happy playing defense and waiting for mistakes. Both are bad.

Our bottom 6 is a work in progress, after having a wonderful 3rd line, we don't seem to have much success with half our forward lineup. Dubas decided to acquire players to raise our floor rather than raise the ceiling (ZAR, NAK, Jarnkrok, instead of a Ninorider). Again, it looks like we're going to have a problem with secondary scoring.

I'd like to clarify that I very much like Dubas as a person, and I am a fan of his, and I can be a little reactionary. But based on the past 5 years with this core, how could you not be worried about this team. In your heart do you think we are going to beat whomever we face in round 1?

Short of Nick Robertson popping off there is no help coming from the AHL. All of our big tickets are here other than Knies.

Sorry for being negative. Yes it's seven games, yes I think we'll make the playoffs. I think we are showing the same signs of being unable to take the step from a top 10 team to a top 5 team.
 
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