Trades and Free Agency - 2022-23 Season Edition

[justashadowof]

Not meant to be some sort gotcha question: if Muzzin is out for a long time wouldn't he already be on the LTIR?

 

[SprDaVE]

If that was the case, wouldn’t Muzzin be on LTIR right now.

Murray is on LTIR and covering everything they need. Muzzin can go on LTIR retroactively after Murray is back.

 

[kb]

Murray is on LTIR and covering everything they need. Muzzin can go on LTIR retroactively after Murray is back.

Exactly. There is no need to LTIR him as the Leafs still have room from the Murray LTIR.

 

[djdev]

so if muzz is done, maybe we could do another deal similar to the gagner for pronger deal with the coyotes, OEL for muzzin/pieces etc. arizona loves to take on cap without actually having to pay salary lol.

 

[LeafChief]

so if muzz is done, maybe we could do another deal similar to the gagner for pronger deal with the coyotes, OEL for muzzin/pieces etc. arizona loves to take on cap without actually having to pay salary lol.

OEL is on Vancouver.

 

[djdev]

OEL is on Vancouver.

oops i meant chychryn

 

[Stephen]

I see Quinn Hughes' name on the trade boards and seriously stopped to wonder if he might be a smart fit for Toronto. He's essentially the high IQ, LHD playmaking, PP QB defenseman that the Leafs seem to love drafting at high volume in mid rounds, but is actually the high end, real deal. Kind of like Mitch Marner from the blueline with a seeing eye shot.

Not sure what it would cost Toronto but with a Hughes, Rielly Top 2 that can be spread out on the specialty teams and top 2 pairings could then allow them to add less skill elements. I know the Dubas braintrust likes this style of player, so why not get the best one out there?

 

[Leaf Rocket]

I see Quinn Hughes' name on the trade boards and seriously stopped to wonder if he might be a smart fit for Toronto. He's essentially the high IQ, LHD playmaking, PP QB defenseman that the Leafs seem to love drafting at high volume in mid rounds, but is actually the high end, real deal. Kind of like Mitch Marner from the blueline with a seeing eye shot.

Not sure what it would cost Toronto but with a Hughes, Rielly Top 2 that can be spread out on the specialty teams and top 2 pairings could then allow them to add less skill elements. I know the Dubas braintrust likes this style of player, so why not get the best one out there?

It's an interesting proposal but I just dont see it tbh. Also what are the pieces we offer? nylander?

 

[SprDaVE]

I see Quinn Hughes' name on the trade boards and seriously stopped to wonder if he might be a smart fit for Toronto. He's essentially the high IQ, LHD playmaking, PP QB defenseman that the Leafs seem to love drafting at high volume in mid rounds, but is actually the high end, real deal. Kind of like Mitch Marner from the blueline with a seeing eye shot.

Not sure what it would cost Toronto but with a Hughes, Rielly Top 2 that can be spread out on the specialty teams and top 2 pairings could then allow them to add less skill elements. I know the Dubas braintrust likes this style of player, so why not get the best one out there?

I don't think he fits. He's expensive both in terms of salary and to acquire, and he's a LHD. I like the player a lot but he doesn't check many boxes.

 

[Cor]

Murray is on LTIR and covering everything they need. Muzzin can go on LTIR retroactively after Murray is back.

But there’s no reason to leave him off unless there’s doubt about his timeline

 

[SprDaVE]

But there’s no reason to leave him off unless there’s doubt about his timeline

There's probably some reason, I don't know. Maybe they aren't sure he's actually going to be out for awhile, maybe it's cap related. But it doesn't seem like he'll be back within the LTIR timeframe regardless.

 

[Menzinger]

There's probably some reason, I don't know. Maybe they aren't sure he's actually going to be out for awhile, maybe it's cap related. But it doesn't seem like he'll be back within the LTIR timeframe regardless.

I suspect there's likely a legit uncertainty about his medical state. Would imagine there's at least a chance at a quicker recovery than some think

 

[Rob Brown]

I see Quinn Hughes' name on the trade boards and seriously stopped to wonder if he might be a smart fit for Toronto. He's essentially the high IQ, LHD playmaking, PP QB defenseman that the Leafs seem to love drafting at high volume in mid rounds, but is actually the high end, real deal. Kind of like Mitch Marner from the blueline with a seeing eye shot.

Not sure what it would cost Toronto but with a Hughes, Rielly Top 2 that can be spread out on the specialty teams and top 2 pairings could then allow them to add less skill elements. I know the Dubas braintrust likes this style of player, so why not get the best one out there?

My feeling is that the Canucks will rebuild with him and Pettersson and will instead try to move the likes of Boeser, Horvat, or Miller. The cost would likely be too high as well, but yeah Hughes would be money on the PP.

I don't think he fits. He's expensive both in terms of salary and to acquire, and he's a LHD. I like the player a lot but he doesn't check many boxes.

He's good so he'd definitely 'fit'. I don't think we have the assets (or would be willing the move the assets required) to get him.

 

[Havoc]

I see Quinn Hughes' name on the trade boards and seriously stopped to wonder if he might be a smart fit for Toronto. He's essentially the high IQ, LHD playmaking, PP QB defenseman that the Leafs seem to love drafting at high volume in mid rounds, but is actually the high end, real deal. Kind of like Mitch Marner from the blueline with a seeing eye shot.

Not sure what it would cost Toronto but with a Hughes, Rielly Top 2 that can be spread out on the specialty teams and top 2 pairings could then allow them to add less skill elements. I know the Dubas braintrust likes this style of player, so why not get the best one out there?

Smart man.

I like to look at it as coverage. Not enough cap to fix the skill problem outside the core 4 issue, so it would be better to just QB from the back end since it has a massive impact on the game overall. These high skilled elite transition defencemen can run the entire game especially if you can find yourself in the luxury of rolling them out back to back. Might see an increase in Rielly's efficiency as well since he doesn't have to shoulder all the backend skill on his own.

Stars made it all the way to the cup finals off Heiskenen and klingberg 1-2 combo back to back. It was very pleasant to watch. (I actually don't remember now if it was b2b or same line but the point is they dictated the entire flow of the game)

If it's not Nylander going the other way, I'm in for Hughes.

 

[Fogelhund]

RIP to our defense

Whos going to be our "Shutdown" pairing?

I mean that’s it isn’t it? Both our fan base and management seem to mostly have blinders on. While I see trade suggestions for Kane, Marchment, Chychrun, Hughes and a host of other guys, it’s our defensive side that is struggling.

I’m not even sure how to address it now. Brodie is no longer capable enough to babysit Rielly. Rielly has never been good defensively, and may have actually become worse, but Brodie is no longer that guy.

We need a RHD guy to cover for Mo.

But with Muzzin gone, we’d also lack a LHD shutdown guy and pairing. Muzzin not only made Holl look like a NHLer and passable second pairing D man, but made it a pretty good shutdown pairing. Without Muzzin, Holl certainly isn’t a passable second pairing guy, and barely a NHLer. I mean all hail to Muzzin, but now we are screwed.

If I were ruthless, I’d move Rielly because you shouldn’t have a #1 who needs that level of babysitting. I don’t know who would need him, what the return would be. Replace him with Chych, and bring in a Mayfield/Connor/bigger shutdown RHD for the second pairing.

But, we are probably stuck with Mo, and that’s going to be a big problem for us. I like Mo, but seriously questioned the wisdom in the extension. If we had a Tanev level partner, he’s ok. (Preferably a younger version) But here we are.

Most know I’m a pretty optimistic positive poster, but also pretty pragmatic and dogged in opinion.

Interesting enough... despite Holl looking terrible, he's kind of good at actual GA/60... 1.5/GA...

Funny enough, Sandin, Mete, and Giordano are also pretty passable. Giordano after seven games, hasn't been on the ice for a goal against even strength.

On paper, we looked pretty good at the start of the season... if Muzzin was Muzzin, and Brodie covered for Rielly... and now, Muzzin is out, his future questioned, and Brodie can't cover up for Mo anymore... so we are in shambles.

 

[Havoc]

I mean that’s it isn’t it? Both our fan base and management seem to mostly have blinders on. While I see trade suggestions for Kane, Marchment, Chychrun, Hughes and a host of other guys, it’s our defensive side that is struggling.

I’m not even sure how to address it now. Brodie is no longer capable enough to babysit Rielly. Rielly has never been good defensively, and may have actually become worse, but Brodie is no longer that guy.

We need a RHD guy to cover for Mo.

But with Muzzin gone, we’d also lack a LHD shutdown guy and pairing. Muzzin not only made Holl look like a NHLer and passable second pairing D man, but made it a pretty good shutdown pairing. Without Muzzin, Holl certainly isn’t a passable second pairing guy, and barely a NHLer. I mean all hail to Muzzin, but now we are screwed.

If I were ruthless, I’d move Rielly because you shouldn’t have a #1 who needs that level of babysitting. I don’t know who would need him, what the return would be. Replace him with Chych, and bring in a Mayfield/Connor/bigger shutdown RHD for the second pairing.

But, we are probably stuck with Mo, and that’s going to be a big problem for us. I like Mo, but seriously questioned the wisdom in the extension. If we had a Tanev level partner, he’s ok. (Preferably a younger version) But here we are.

Most know I’m a pretty optimistic positive poster, but also pretty pragmatic and dogged in opinion.

Hit enter too early, more to come.

You've said nothing wrong here, just comes down to what you want to tackle based on the names available.

If we tackle the skill route, the names available are more impactful and have an overall bigger impact on the game. You've correctly identified an issue but the names that come in to fix it would patch holes while simultaneously have a smaller impact in comparison to adding, let's say a Hughes. Core 4 with Hughes and Rielly is a force that can't be reckoned with in the playoffs if everyone stays healthy. Bottom 6 auto upgraded as well indirectly.

Skill and speed still trump whatever Muzzin brings, you need to prioritize that first before you fill in your Mayfields.

 

[Fogelhund]

You've said nothing wrong here, just comes down to what you want to tackle based on the names available.

If we tackle the skill route, the names available are more impactful and have an overall bigger impact on the game. You've correctly identified an issue but the names that come in to fix it would patch holes while simultaneously have a smaller impact in comparison to adding, let's say a Hughes. Core 4 with Hughes and Rielly is a force that can't be reckoned with in the playoffs if everyone stays healthy. Bottom 6 auto upgraded as well indirectly.

Skill and speed still trump whatever Muzzin brings, you need to prioritize that first before you fill in your Mayfields.

Have you watched Hughes this year? Or even last? He's a disaster defensively without Tanev babysitting him.

Yes, Hughes and Rielly would be an offensive force, while simultaneously being a complete dumpster fire defensively. Teams need balance... IMO, that isn't it.


Btw.. I’d be fine with Hughes… as a replacement for Mo… but you can’t have two of these guys on the same roster.

 

[DraftSchmaft]

I miss the days it was skill AND speed. Now it's skill OR speed OR why are you here

 

[Commander Clueless]

I'd rather we stop doing the "let's give it a try and see if it works" type moves. I mean I'm not against them the frequency is just getting too high lately.

I would agree, but who knows what works with this group at this point.

 

[All Mod Cons]

Our elite defence is not elite.

 

[Fogelhund]

Our elite defence is not elite.

Our #`1 D, who was never great defensively, got worse defensively for some reason. Is it on him, or is his partner no longer capable of babysitting him?

Our best defensive D, is out... maybe permanently.

Arguably our next best D, in Lily is also out.

Ya, of course it's not elite, nor even passable.

So... what is the solution? More importantly, what is THEIR solution going to be?

I've hammered home many times this year... stop searching for the shiny toy offensive player, in Kane... etc... let's figure out what we really need to address... and you know what, it's still early. Maybe Muzzin comes back and plays near his peak, maybe Liljegren grows and becomes a defensive force. Maybe Rielly settles his game down, and it's not a worry... Or the opposite happens.. Right now, the D appears to be a problem, over the coming weeks, we will figure out how serious it is, and what needs addressing.

 

[Hoglund4MvP]

Our #`1 D, who was never great defensively, got worse defensively for some reason. Is it on him, or is his partner no longer capable of babysitting him?

Our best defensive D, is out... maybe permanently.

Arguably our next best D, in Lily is also out.

Ya, of course it's not elite, nor even passable.

So... what is the solution? More importantly, what is THEIR solution going to be?

I've hammered home many times this year... stop searching for the shiny toy offensive player, in Kane... etc... let's figure out what we really need to address... and you know what, it's still early. Maybe Muzzin comes back and plays near his peak, maybe Liljegren grows and becomes a defensive force. Maybe Rielly settles his game down, and it's not a worry... Or the opposite happens.. Right now, the D appears to be a problem, over the coming weeks, we will figure out how serious it is, and what needs addressing.

It is too late to try to build the backend the way you want for this season. Wait for what? Poor man's version of what muzzin used to be? Look how many maybe you have there we don't want to waste another year on your maybes.

Leafs are closer to win off sheer skill than they are to being close to well balanced. That's just reality and we have to work with it. Reilly was never good at D, whole world has access to muzzin age and they never planned for a decline, and Lil last appearance was as a healthy scratch he's not a establish top 4 yet. Bottom 6 is very bad.

The expensive shiny toy is the best play by how dubas assembled the team. A small tight knit group of elite skill (we need at least 1 more given the rest of team) can get the job done if they can find some heart sleeve sand paper to surround with too by deadline that have impressive playoffs. Look how many goals Tampa had from depth last season that cost 5 million total. Those guys easier to get. The changes you are making the team are good, but won't make much difference in playoffs. As season go on I predict you will be on island by yourself rejecting the expensive players.

 

[Fogelhund]

It is too late to try to build the backend the way you want for this season. Wait for what? Poor man's version of what muzzin used to be? Look how many maybe you have there we don't want to waste another year on your maybes.

Leafs are closer to win off sheer skill than they are to being close to well balanced. That's just reality and we have to work with it. Reilly was never good at D, whole world has access to muzzin age and they never planned for a decline, and Lil last appearance was as a healthy scratch he's not a establish top 4 yet. Bottom 6 is very bad.

The expensive shiny toy is the best play by how dubas assembled the team. A small tight knit group of elite skill can get the job done if they can find some heart sleeve sand paper to surround with too by deadline that have impressive playoffs. Look how many goals Tampa had from depth last season that cost 5 million total. Those guys easier to get. The changes you are making the team are good, but won't make much difference in playoffs. As season go on I predict you will be on island by yourself rejecting the expensive players.

1. No, it's not too late. Trades happen during the season. It's pretty common. I'm not sure how you thing we can trade for your expensive shiny toy, but D fixes??

2. Wait for what? Wait to see what we actually need. Patience. We don't know Muzzin's status, if he will be back, can he play... or how Liljegren will play.

3. Disagree that shiny toy is the best way. The biggest need, will always be the biggest need. Time reveals that clearly.. although we think we have a potential glimpse of what that is.

4. I don't care if I'm on an island. I'm not trying to win a popularity contest, or conform my views to that of the masses... I mean, look at Leafs twitter, and social media opinions... the popular views are hot take garbage not to be aspired to. Nickelback is the best selling Canadian Rock Band of all time... I mean... LOL Appealing to the masses!!!

If you really think a guy like Patrick Kane helps this team with any playoff success, more than fixing what appears to be a problematic D, all the power to you. Clearly we see the games played very differently, and the causes for loses, completely differently. At least we are both Leafs fans, and that's good.

 

[GQS]

If I were ruthless, I’d move Rielly because you shouldn’t have a #1 who needs that level of babysitting. I don’t know who would need him, what the return would be. Replace him with Chych, and bring in a Mayfield/Connor/bigger shutdown RHD for the second pairing.

I like Rielly but did wish that we could've traded him for a good return when he was still on his last contract. It sucks that he's our #1, but isn't all that great defensively and the Leafs have been trying to find a good partner for him for almost his entire career here and the closest we've gotten is perhaps Ron Hainsey and maybe Brodie for a short while.

On paper, we looked pretty good at the start of the season... if Muzzin was Muzzin, and Brodie covered for Rielly... and now, Muzzin is out, his future questioned, and Brodie can't cover up for Mo anymore... so we are in shambles.

Maybe when Liljegren comes back if he can play at the level that he was at near the end of last season, then perhaps Gio and Liljegren could return to being the Leafs solid pairing as they seemed to look pretty good when they were together.

 

[The Podium]

I like Rielly but did wish that we could've traded him for a good return when he was still on his last contract. It sucks that he's our #1, but isn't all that great defensively and the Leafs have been trying to find a good partner for him for almost his entire career here and the closest we've gotten is perhaps Ron Hainsey and maybe Brodie for a short while.




Maybe when Liljegren comes back if he can play at the level that he was at near the end of last season, then perhaps Gio and Liljegren could return to being the Leafs solid pairing as they seemed to look pretty good when they were together.

Personally, I’d try Reilly - Lilly, Gio-Brodie