Trades and Free Agency - 2022-23 Season Edition

[zeke]

I was open to this idea with Hyman and even more open to it with Bunting.

Especially since I have a hunch he'd come cheaper than Hyman despite being the younger better player.

 

[Menzinger]

I was open to this idea with Hyman and even more open to it with Bunting.

Especially since I have a hunch he'd come cheaper than Hyman despite being the younger better player.

Have been saying this too. The Bolts recently did something similar with Nick Paul. Give the guy all the term he wants as long as that aav drops enough.

From Buntings POV, it's a guaranteed 20+ mil which would be very hard to pass on given his career earnings so far.

 

[BertCorbeau]

I'd give Bunting 8 years if it brought the AAV to $4.5 mill or less. That's low end top 6 money from a cap construction POV and will end up being mid-range 3rd liner money by the time it's in the later years (when the cap keeps rising).

Once JT is gone I assume Matthews would retain the 'C' and I'd guess Bunting would be a prime 'A' candidate

 

[Kiwi]

There's literally no way in hell I'd give Bunting 8 years or 4-5 Million dollars a year under any circumstance

The guy gives an effort but he's playing with 2 of the best talents in the entire league and you cannot tell me we can't find another dirt cheap option to play with those two again

Jesus give Steeves Robertson McMann Amirov Knies a chance with those two next season, Hell literally anybody who can skate forecheck and go to the net would be worth a try before doing something like that

Falling in love with bit parts being elevated by teammates is a mugs game

 

[SprDaVE]

8 years for Bunting would be awesome. I think the Leafs offered Hyman 8 years but around/under 4M. I assume it would be something similar for Bunting.

I really hope we can keep him.

 

[zeke]

There's literally no way in hell I'd give Bunting 8 years or 4-5 Million dollars a year under any circumstance

The guy gives an effort but he's playing with 2 of the best talents in the entire league and you cannot tell me we can't find another dirt cheap option to play with those two again

Jesus give Steeves Robertson McMann Amirov Knies a chance with those two next season, Hell literally anybody who can skate forecheck and go to the net would be worth a try before doing something like that

Falling in love with bit parts being elevated by teammates is a mugs game

Bunting's numbers were similarly good in Arizona.

 

[Kiwi]

Bunting's numbers were similarly good in Arizona.

Over a sample of about 20 games if I'm correct and I'm pretty sure Matthews and Marner are going to elivate there linemate under most circumstances

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I'd give Bunting 8 years if it brought the AAV to $4.5 mill or less. That's low end top 6 money from a cap construction POV and will end up being mid-range 3rd liner money by the time it's in the later years (when the cap keeps rising).

Once JT is gone I assume Matthews would retain the 'C' and I'd guess Bunting would be a prime 'A' candidate

It would have to be a much better deal than that for me to sign him for 8 years. He is not a super skilled player whose game is going to last into his mid-30's, and he is not bringing a two-way game either, which is often how guys extend their careers when they are role players.

If he repeats his year, 5x5 should be his absolute ceiling. Then take off 500k per extra year you add on.

5x5 = 25 mill (ends at 32 -> starting age of final year)
6 x 4.5 = 27 mill (ends at 33)
7 x 4 = 28 mill (ends at 34)
8 x 3.5 = 28 mill (ends at 35)

So as far as I am concerned, he is not giving us a deal unless he takes 3.5 mill or less on an 8 year deal.

We also have to remember that he will not even necessarily be filling a need soon given the amount of winger prospects we have coming up: Robertson is already struggling to find a spot in the lineup that he can probably take right now, and that is before we consider various other prospects who look poised to take NHL jobs within the next few years (Holmberg, Abruzzese, Steeves, Knies, and possibly even Amirov).

Bunting is a nice guy, local kid, etc. He will probably be able to supplant his income with endorsements here more than anywhere else he goes. A lot of this is the same as Hyman, but like Hyman, he is not a high priority to keep coming out of his prime years.

 

[stickty111]

If you can do 8 years at around 4.5, you have to consider it

 

[Menzinger]

8 years for Bunting would be awesome. I think the Leafs offered Hyman 8 years but around/under 4M. I assume it would be something similar for Bunting.

I really hope we can keep him.

Yeah. Think 4.5 might be a tad high. That's the type of aav I'd expect at like a 2-3 year deal. I'd want around 3-4 mil for 7-8 years

 

[Avilaj07]

Only way I'm signing Bunting to 8 years is if the aav is no more then 3.5 million.

 

[DraftSchmaft]

You're telling me this place cried about the thought of 8 x 5 for Hyman but want to 8 x 4.5 Bunting? This guy looked worthy for just the press box last playoffs and we've come to this conclusion already? I mean, if he shows he's worth it after 22/23 I'm all in too, but to hear it today given that this exact time last year we kicked Hyman to the curb ? Mind boggling to the max.

I'd take Hyman without second thought if they cost the same or close to the same. Bunting is only the obvious choice because the cap hit is too good to take Hyman over him. Bunting has his work cut out for him this season if he wants 8 x 4.5. That needs to include a playoffs where he doesn't look lost.

 

[Duke16]

In Friedmans 32 thoughts:

"Believe Toronto will continue exploring waiver-exempt or waiver-cleared defensive depth thanks to three preseason injuries. The Maple Leafs have a surplus of depth forwards. "

Defenseman to look at : Bayreuther, Timmins, Moverare, Priskie and Lagesson from the top of my head. They'd add some solid depth from the Marlies. (Yes, I know they aren't that great. Yes. I know.)

Anderson for Moverare maybe?

Same draft, both cleared. Reunites Anderson bros in same org

 

[SprDaVE]

You're telling me this place cried about the thought of 8 x 5 for Hyman but want to 8 x 4.5 Bunting? This guy looked worthy for just the press box last playoffs and we've come to this conclusion already? I mean, if he shows he's worth it after 22/23 I'm all in too, but to hear it today given that this exact time last year we kicked Hyman to the curb ? Mind boggling to the max.

I'd take Hyman without second thought if they cost the same or close to the same. Bunting is only the obvious choice because the cap hit is too good to take Hyman over him. Bunting has his work cut out for him this season if he wants 8 x 4.5. That needs to include a playoffs where he doesn't look lost.

Most people see it as a 4M and under situation, just like Hyman.

 

[Stephen]

You're telling me this place cried about the thought of 8 x 5 for Hyman but want to 8 x 4.5 Bunting? This guy looked worthy for just the press box last playoffs and we've come to this conclusion already? I mean, if he shows he's worth it after 22/23 I'm all in too, but to hear it today given that this exact time last year we kicked Hyman to the curb ? Mind boggling to the max.

I'd take Hyman without second thought if they cost the same or close to the same. Bunting is only the obvious choice because the cap hit is too good to take Hyman over him. Bunting has his work cut out for him this season if he wants 8 x 4.5. That needs to include a playoffs where he doesn't look lost.

You would have to factor in the projected cap increase with whatever Bunting may or may not be offered. $3.5 million or $4 million would represent a lower cap % beginning in the 2023-24 than did summer of 2021.

 

[1specter]

You're telling me this place cried about the thought of 8 x 5 for Hyman but want to 8 x 4.5 Bunting? This guy looked worthy for just the press box last playoffs and we've come to this conclusion already? I mean, if he shows he's worth it after 22/23 I'm all in too, but to hear it today given that this exact time last year we kicked Hyman to the curb ? Mind boggling to the max.

I'd take Hyman without second thought if they cost the same or close to the same. Bunting is only the obvious choice because the cap hit is too good to take Hyman over him. Bunting has his work cut out for him this season if he wants 8 x 4.5. That needs to include a playoffs where he doesn't look lost.

Bunting was very clearly playing injured and if we're gonna use playoff performances then what about all of Hyman's shit performances here over the years? Sure he played well for the Oilers this year but it was the first time and mostly against meh competition.

 

[SoftDumpNtheCorner88]

8x 3.8m

Don't think that will happen but I'd be fine with that.. I can see him playing on the third line eventually in a few years and either way his contract will be very tradeable the higher the cap goes up if we need the space.

 

[DraftSchmaft]

Bunting was very clearly playing injured and if we're gonna use playoff performances then what about all of Hyman's shit performances here over the years? Sure he played well for the Oilers this year but it was the first time and mostly against meh competition.

I was one of the ones saying no to Hyman for 5 mil or over like literallly 90% of this place was, so thanks for supporting my comment.

But if I were to support Hyman, he was injured for a lot of those too so if you're giving Bunting a pass you have to give Hyman a pass too, sorry. At least Hyman didn't look lost , you can tell his body was just dying.

You'd be insane to take a healthy Bunting over a healthy Hyman at the same price (range) and an injured Hyman also looked better than a hurt Bunting.

Just asking for some integrity.

 

[DraftSchmaft]

You would have to factor in the projected cap increase with whatever Bunting may or may not be offered. $3.5 million or $4 million would represent a lower cap % beginning in the 2023-24 than did summer of 2021.

Bunting at 4 mil would (today) be the biggest bust potential in the future. Matthew's and Marner are both capable of breaking Gilmours point record big whoop their left winger got 60 points.

I need to see more and so does everyone else. Snap out of it.

We can't become careless just because extra cap space is coming.


*For the record I'm not saying no, I'm just saying wait. Yes right now just makes zero sense based on literally everything.

 

[Havoc]

I'd rather make a run at Horvat for 3C than re-sign any current depth players to big money.

53% on the draws from 3C that jumps to 60% in the playoffs then you have Kampf at 4C, yes please. I'd wait on signing Bunting until we see if Horvat wants to test the market.

I'd pull out the cheque book to restore elite center depth 1-2-3. That's something you can pull out the "cap is rising, don't be cheap" card for.

(What's great about this as well is you can finally live your dreams and spread the offence 2A-2B)

 

[1specter]

You'd be insane to take a healthy Bunting over a healthy Hyman at the same price (range) and an injured Hyman also looked better than a hurt Bunting.

Why? Bunting in his first full NHL season posted better numbers than Hyman ever has in his entire career with the exact same linemates, and he's also 3 years younger. And Hyman sure as hell wasn't any better in his first playoff experience either. Hyman may have some better physical tools and is stronger on the boards but Bunting is the more skilled player overall and I don't really think that's very debatable. Even on a shit team like Arizona he managed to put up some good numbers (albeit small sample).

I'm not saying sign him up right this moment but if he continues to keep up his pace or even improve early in the season then I'd prefer to lock him into a cheaper deal sooner than later.

 

[justashadowof]

Any minor league deal to shore up the defense depth should also be a 2 for 1 swap as well. Sitting at 50 contracts is an unnecessary constraint.

 

[DraftSchmaft]

Why? Bunting in his first full NHL season posted better numbers than Hyman ever has in his entire career with the exact same linemates, and he's also 3 years younger. And Hyman sure as hell wasn't any better in his first playoff experience either. Hyman may have some better physical tools and is stronger on the boards but Bunting is the more skilled player overall and I don't really think that's very debatable. Even on a shit team like Arizona he managed to put up some good numbers (albeit small sample).

I'm not saying sign him up right this moment but if he continues to keep up his pace or even improve early in the season then I'd prefer to lock him into a cheaper deal sooner than later.

We will agree to disagree here and end this on a peaceful note. I am actually a huge fan of Bunting so it pains me to be the one speaking against him, blame the boring cap limit for these arguments. I enjoy that Bunting was able to replace Hymans regular season points but personally I believe Hymans defensive impact cannot be touched by Bunting. Hyman is a high end two-way forward. Leader for work horse forward here when healthy. I don't miss his current cap hit but I miss his overall impact he had on the team. I wouldn't miss Bunting in that way. Our only goal would be to find another 60 point forward for Matthews if we lost Bunting. Doesn't seem that hard given the line?

 

[Havoc]

We will agree to disagree here and end this on a peaceful note. I am actually a huge fan of Bunting so it pains me to be the one speaking against him, blame the boring cap limit for these arguments. I enjoy that Bunting was able to replace Hymans regular season points but personally I believe Hymans defensive impact cannot be touched by Bunting. Hyman is a high end two-way forward. Leader for work horse forward here when healthy. I don't miss his current cap hit but I miss his overall impact he had on the team. I wouldn't miss Bunting in that way. Our only goal would be to find another 60 point forward for Matthews if we lost Bunting. Doesn't seem that hard given the line?

Establish the P-model first then think about Bunting.

What is the P-model you ask.

1-2-3 headed dragon at C to make the shaft then you complete the P with the two elite right wingers (for sake of the model, haters just take Nylander as elite this one time, but he is elite objectively if you label him as second line left wing, like how Horvat is elite from a 3rd line view).

Horvat is the missing piece to complete the masterpiece we can get for free. Moneyball the rest of the forwards or ELC the place up. Next big spend should be defence after you get the P model running.

You have so many options if you run the P model with this team. You don't need to pay Buntings or Miks or Hymans. If we have money left over then sure knock yourself out with a Hyman or Bunting but until a good 3C is found I'm signing nobody to over Kerfoot money excluding breakout rookies.

 

[DraftSchmaft]

Establish the P-model first then think about Bunting.

What is the P-model you ask.

1-2-3 headed dragon at C to make the shaft then you complete the P with the two elite right wingers (for sake of the model, haters just take Nylander as elite this one time, but he is elite objectively if you label him as second line left wing, like how Horvat is elite from a 3rd line view).

Horvat is the missing piece to complete the masterpiece we can get for free. Moneyball the rest of the forwards or ELC the place up. Next big spend should be defence after you get the P model running.

You have so many options if you run the P model with this team. You don't need to pay Buntings or Miks or Hymans. If we have money left over then sure knock yourself out with a Hyman or Bunting but until a good 3C is found I'm signing nobody to over Kerfoot money excluding breakout rookies.

I like how you quoted me just to use as a medium to introduce your P model lol but yes I wouldn't say no to a team built like that.