Trades and Free Agency - 2022-23 Season Edition

[SprDaVE]

Hayton makes a lot of sense, but it depends on cost.


C Barrett Hayton
RD Conor Timmins

:coyotes
LW/C Nick Abruzzese
LW Pierre Engvall (flipped to 3rd team)
RW Pavel Gogolev (contract dump)
2nd round pick 2025 (they keep both Lyubushkin picks)

That would be the absolute ceiling for me, and I would try to get a better deal (maybe lower the pick).

Hayton is a big downgrade on Engvall right now as a defensive forward so I don't see this being overly great. But I do wonder what a change of scenery could do for him. If it wasn't for his draft selection, I don't think we'd even be talking about him as trade target at all.

Timmins would do well while we're hurt but not likely much of a player when healthy. I do think he could be a good target as immediate depth.

 

[ULF_55]

2 1sts + Sandin for Chychrun.

Doesn't accomplish enough, after throwing three 1st. round picks out they are still constrained by their Cap Level and Contract count.

For that much currency, they need to get more.

 

[Fogelhund]

Can't say I he has shown me much to care whether they send him down. Looking like another MEH player which we have too many of.

and that's the thing, when you lack the patience to give players a chance, you have a zero probability that they work out. FIVE games, and you've made your mind up about him.

We want to improve the team, we want our younger players to succeed, yet they get a FIVE game audition, and then our minds are made up, and it's time to shoot them into the sun.

Then we'll send him off to some other team, maybe he succeeds, and the same posters who complain about Barabanov, Marchment... and so on that didn't get enough of a chance here, will complain that we gave up on him....

FFS, have some patience with players, give them the chance to succeed.

 

[SprDaVE]

Can’t say I’ve really been impressed with Holmberg at all… Seems more like the bottom sixer that we currently have too many of.

He's been pretty vanilla but that's his game. He works hard, he's got enough skill and can play an effective 2-way game in a lower role. He's more or less a bigger version of Brooks. But I think he's got potential to do more offensively.

He's in a role that I think the Leafs really could use a big upgrade instead of on defense right now, but I'd say his short stint has been successful.

 

[pspot]

Crouse would have been a great add before he made 4+
Hayton would be great too but doubt they'd include him
Fischer is the guy i'd be interested. Heavy forward that can play up and down the lineup

Is Muzzin a cap dump at this point? flipping Chych for Muzzin and saving 1 mill sounds interesting

Chych and Fischer for 2 x 1st (one conditional on leafs making conference finals or something), Muzzin, and prospect but I don't think i do it with any of the top guys (knies, Robertson or Niemela)

 

[ACC1224]

and that's the thing, when you lack the patience to give players a chance, you have a zero probability that they work out. FIVE games, and you've made your mind up about him.

We want to improve the team, we want our younger players to succeed, yet they get a FIVE game audition, and then our minds are made up, and it's time to shoot them into the sun.

Then we'll send him off to some other team, maybe he succeeds, and the same posters who complain about Barabanov, Marchment... and so on that didn't get enough of a chance here, will complain that we gave up on him....

FFS, have some patience with players, give them the chance to succeed.

Players will turn out however they turn out whether the fans have patience or not.
The fans aren't sending players to other teams because they aren't patient enough.

 

[TMLAM34]

I’m not totally against using Niemela in a deal for Chychrun. Chychrun is what 24 years of age, locked up and an established NHL defenceman. Niemela might turn out better but he also might not pan out at all. Not to mention Niemela is also an offensive defencman, something Chychrun already is better at with a way better shot than Niemela will ever develop IMO. The only concern is Chychrun’s health of course.


To Toronto: Jakob Chychrun
To Arizona: 1st Round Pick + Topi Niemela + Pierre Engvall


Bunting - Matthews - Nylander
Robertson - Tavares - Marner
Kerfoot - Holmberg - Jarnkrok
Aston Reese - Kampf - Malgin

Chychrun - Liljegren
Giordano - Holl
Sandin - Benn

Murray - Kallgren

He's been pretty vanilla but that's his game. He works hard, he's got enough skill and can play an effective 2-way game in a lower role. He's more or less a bigger version of Brooks. But I think he's got potential to do more offensively.

He's in a role that I think the Leafs really could use a big upgrade instead of on defense right now, but I'd say his short stint has been successful.

Solid two-way game is all he brings. He hasn’t shown us he’s an offensive threat in the AHL or NHL yet, nor does he bring any kind of physicality to the lineup.

If he at least finished his checks, I’d say he’s a perfect candidate for the fourth line center role.

 

[TMLAM34]

Also speaking of bottom six players, I hope Dubas has been in talks with Kampf’s agent. Kampf is definitely a guy we should be looking to extend.

Maybe something along the lines of 5 years at 2.25 million per?

 

[Dreakmur]

Hayton would be a perfect target.

Christian Fischer is the forward we want from Arizona.

 

[SprDaVE]

Solid two-way game is all he brings. He hasn’t shown us he’s an offensive threat in the AHL or NHL yet, nor does he bring any kind of physicality to the lineup.

If he at least finished his checks, I’d say he’s a perfect candidate for the fourth line center role.

He's definitely got more room to grow in terms of offence. He probably won't score a lot of goals but he's got Kerfoot potential offensively, which is pretty solid.

 

[TMLAM34]

He's definitely got more room to grow in terms of offence. He probably won't score a lot of goals but he's got Kerfoot potential offensively, which is pretty solid.

Kerfoot of last year or this year?

 

[ULF_55]

Kerfoot of last year or this year?

If they both bring the same:

.828 versus 3.5

 

[dubplatepressure]

Christian Fischer is the forward we want from Arizona.

Meh. These all sound like shuffling deck chairs. IMO Marner's gone in the summer so we can refocus our cap space on some of those key secondary pieces we cannot afford now (ie Hyman, Marchment, etc).

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I don't even know if we're a better team after this trade, tbh.

Personally, I'd like to bring in Klingberg.

If we look at it like going from Engvall to Hayton, then Hayton would need to play better than he has to upgrade the team right now.

However, Hayton has a lot more upside and is a long term play. Plus he can actually play center, which on its own is a big win since it solves 3C not only now, but for the next few years.

This move doesn't preclude us from adding another defenseman if we need to. Timmins is more of a depth upgrade, and a toss in. He is not better than Holl, Liljegren, or Brodie but he is another option for our 7th defenseman spot and a RH one at that. If he can stay healthy, he may even be able to be a cheap bottom pairing guy for us next year.

 

[pspot]

He's not getting paid as a top pair guy , so paying for potential but at least not also taking on the cap hit. Leafs need a piece on the back end and maybe the is the type of move dubas will make. hope he gets lucky....but he's also signed injury risk goalies the past few years and ....they got injured

ignoring price is he as good as muzzin? brodie? so is that his floor but there is upside but with those guys we know they aren't going to be anything more.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I'm willing to give Holmberg a few more games, to see how he performs as he gets more comfortable. His last game was his best.

He seems more like a reliable 2 way winger than a guy I would want as a center. Engvall/Kerfoot replacement, but a full year in the AHL is what he needs right now.

 

[Dreakmur]

Meh. These all sound like shuffling deck chairs. IMO Marner's gone in the summer so we can refocus our cap space on some of those key secondary pieces we cannot afford now (ie Hyman, Marchment, etc).

Just because we should also move Marner doesn't exclude the need to also acquire players like Fischer. He's a defensive power forward with untapped offensive upside.

 

[Mickey Marner]

Just because we should also move Marner doesn't exclude the need to also acquire players like Fischer. He's a defensive power forward with untapped offensive upside.

He's also Auston Matthews' best friend.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Hayton is a big downgrade on Engvall right now as a defensive forward so I don't see this being overly great. But I do wonder what a change of scenery could do for him. If it wasn't for his draft selection, I don't think we'd even be talking about him as trade target at all.

Timmins would do well while we're hurt but not likely much of a player when healthy. I do think he could be a good target as immediate depth.

Hayton's expectation is actually not much worse than Engvall's right now (defensively). Hayton is getting ravaged by a piss poor PDO, and if that drives his value down, then that is only good news for us because he will almost certainly do much better once he gets here.

The other thing is team. Haytons defensive numbers (5 on 5 and PK) are among the best on Arizona. Hasnt been on the ice for a PP goal against so far this year despite playing 40 seconds more per game than Engvall. Arizona just sucks at pretty much everything. There is always a risk of him being a bad player, but I think it is more likely that he is a good player on a bad team.

The way I look at it is that Hayton, on this team, can probably be about as effective as Engvall was last year. As Engvall gets more games under his belt, he will get to that 10-15 goal, 30-35 point defensive forward mark that makes him a valuable asset, but Malgin has worked very well on that 4th line too and is a better play driver. I think Hayton, as the 3C with some kind of combination of Robertson, Malgin, Kerfoot, and Jarnkrok as his wingers, can be at least that as well but as a proper center with PP and PK ability. And going forward, he is under team control and has the kind of upside to be at legit 20-20 3C who is the foundation of our 3rd line, and help us get more out of it than we have thus far. This is not a rental move, and we actually trade away a rental at the same time.

Bunting - Matthews - Nylander
Robertson - Tavares - Marner
Kerfoot - Hayton - Jarnkrok
ZAR - Kampf - Malgin
Holmberg + other Marlies

PP1: Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Tavares
PP2: Bunting, Hayton, Malgin, Robertson (Jarnkrok is also an option)

PK1: Kampf, Marner
PK2A: Kerfoot, Jarnkrok (on the fly change)
PK2B: Hayton, ZAR (faceoff change, since Hayton can win draws while Engvall-ZAR is more of the same as 2A).
Extras: Malgin and Robertson.

That is the look I'd probably start with, but we could configure those lines a lot easier than with Engvall in the lineup.

It all really comes down to price, but this is the kind of pre-Covid moves that were much better than when he started going after rentals and underwhelming toughness.

 

[ToneDog]

and that's the thing, when you lack the patience to give players a chance, you have a zero probability that they work out. FIVE games, and you've made your mind up about him.

We want to improve the team, we want our younger players to succeed, yet they get a FIVE game audition, and then our minds are made up, and it's time to shoot them into the sun.

Then we'll send him off to some other team, maybe he succeeds, and the same posters who complain about Barabanov, Marchment... and so on that didn't get enough of a chance here, will complain that we gave up on him....

FFS, have some patience with players, give them the chance to succeed.

Relax. The guy hasn't shown much so let him ripen with the Marlies. Don't think that warrants the bolded response.

 

[ULF_55]

He's also Auston Matthews' best friend.

So move both?

I think you could make it work with Arizona.

Start with this:

Then throw in Keller and Chychrun.

Start the rebuild.

 

[ToneDog]

Can’t say I’ve really been impressed with Holmberg at all… Seems more like the bottom sixer that we currently have too many of.

Same here. Yet I get response 2803. Sheesh.

 

[TMLAM34]

Hayton's expectation is actually not much worse than Engvall's right now (defensively). Hayton is getting ravaged by a piss poor PDO, and if that drives his value down, then that is only good news for us because he will almost certainly do much better once he gets here.

The other thing is team. Haytons defensive numbers (5 on 5 and PK) are among the best on Arizona. Hasnt been on the ice for a PP goal against so far this year despite playing 40 seconds more per game than Engvall. Arizona just sucks at pretty much everything. There is always a risk of him being a bad player, but I think it is more likely that he is a good player on a bad team.

The way I look at it is that Hayton, on this team, can probably be about as effective as Engvall was last year. As Engvall gets more games under his belt, he will get to that 10-15 goal, 30-35 point defensive forward mark that makes him a valuable asset, but Malgin has worked very well on that 4th line too and is a better play driver. I think Hayton, as the 3C with some kind of combination of Robertson, Malgin, Kerfoot, and Jarnkrok as his wingers, can be at least that as well but as a proper center with PP and PK ability. And going forward, he is under team control and has the kind of upside to be at legit 20-20 3C who is the foundation of our 3rd line, and help us get more out of it than we have thus far. This is not a rental move, and we actually trade away a rental at the same time.

Bunting - Matthews - Nylander
Robertson - Tavares - Marner
Kerfoot - Hayton - Jarnkrok
ZAR - Kampf - Malgin
Holmberg + other Marlies

PP1: Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Tavares
PP2: Bunting, Hayton, Malgin, Robertson (Jarnkrok is also an option)

PK1: Kampf, Marner
PK2A: Kerfoot, Jarnkrok (on the fly change)
PK2B: Hayton, ZAR (faceoff change, since Hayton can win draws while Engvall-ZAR is more of the same as 2A).
Extras: Malgin and Robertson.

That is the look I'd probably start with, but we could configure those lines a lot easier than with Engvall in the lineup.

It all really comes down to price, but this is the kind of pre-Covid moves that were much better than when he started going after rentals and underwhelming toughness.

If we’re going after Hayton, Fischer would also be another name I’d be interest in acquiring.

 

[dubplatepressure]

Just because we should also move Marner doesn't exclude the need to also acquire players like Fischer. He's a defensive power forward with untapped offensive upside.

If you say so. I'm not opposed to it, sure. Replace Malgin or Engvall with him.

 

[dubplatepressure]

Relax. The guy hasn't shown much so let him ripen with the Marlies. Don't think that warrants the bolded response.

Players usually need at least 20-30 games before finding their NHL legs when transitioning. At least. The guy's had a total of 20 GP between the Marlies and the big boys. I'd say he's done very well considering - actually quite happy with him. Much better than some of the other brief stints we've seen in years past - guys like Abruzesse, Steeves, Anderson (last year), Amadio, Petan, Aberg, Shore, etc all sucked. At least Holmberg is holding his own especially defensively. He's also skating better, quicker now than he was when he first joined the team. So all good signs.