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Trades and Free Agency - 2022-23 Season Edition

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hockeywiz542 said:
Pierre LeBrun: Played north of 23 minutes by the way, I wonder how many teams notice that. It is a high price and listen, I think it's important to understand why Coyotes GM Bill Armstrong is asking for two first-round picks plus either a prospect or a young NHL player in any deal for Jakob Chychrun. Number one, I think he's looked at the Hampus Lindholm deal from a year ago where Anaheim got a first-round pick and two seconds for an older player who was a pending UFA and ends up going to Boston, of course the Bruins signed him. There's the Brandon Hagel deal Chicago getting two first-round picks for Hagel because of his cheap cap and Chychrun is young, he's got a bargain contract and if history shows us anything in terms of the Darcy Kuemper trade where Arizona got a first and a young player and a third. Bill Armstrong is going to stick to his price.
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If the price for Chychrun is two 1st round picks and say Robertson, my first thought is that it's worth considering. Would be interested to hear what others think. It sounds like a fair price, we're in win now mode, he would help us not just this season but for years to come and odds are pretty god that these picks will be late 1st round picks and therefore it could end up that none of these 3 assets we give up end up being anywhere near as good as Chychrun. So tell me, is there a good reason that we shouldn't be willing to pay this price?
 
Gary Nylund said:
If the price for Chychrun is two 1st round picks and say Robertson, my first thought is that it's worth considering. Would be interested to hear what others think. It sounds like a fair price, we're in win now mode, he would help us not just this season but for years to come and odds are pretty god that these picks will be late 1st round picks and therefore it could end up that none of these 3 assets we give up end up being anywhere near as good as Chychrun. So tell me, is there a good reason that we shouldn't be willing to pay this price?
Click to expand...

The problem with Chychrun isn't that he's not a good player on paper. He's just often injured and a left handed shot that makes it a weird fit when everyone is healthy. It's not like he dominated when he was healthy either, he was just a good player.

All those assets spent on someone that is a risk and doesn't fit perfectly is a bit of a weird one to me. Right now he'd be a big boost but I just personally don't think he's worth all that.
 
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SprDaVE said:
The problem with Chychrun isn't that he's not a good player on paper. He's just often injured and a left handed shot that makes it a weird fit when everyone is healthy. It's not like he dominated when he was healthy either, he was just a good player.

All those assets spent on someone that is a risk and doesn't fit perfectly is a bit of a weird one to me. Right now he'd be a big boost but I just personally don't think he's worth all that.
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It's as if the longer he goes without playing the better people think he is.
 
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SprDaVE said:
The problem with Chychrun isn't that he's not a good player on paper. He's just often injured and a left handed shot that makes it a weird fit when everyone is healthy. It's not like he dominated when he was healthy either, he was just a good player.

All those assets spent on someone that is a risk and doesn't fit perfectly is a bit of a weird one to me. Right now he'd be a big boost but I just personally don't think he's worth all that.
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Ok that makes sense. I had a peek at his numbers for the first time and the fact that he seems to play not much more than 50 games a year is a red flag for sure. Sigh.
 
To Toronto-
Jakob Chychrun
Lawson Crouse

To Arizona-
Alex Kerfoot
Rasmus Sandin
Nick Robertson
Pierre Engvall
1st Round Pick
 
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Not a fan of trading too many futures, but if the team is going to dick around with Robertson, I'd entertain trading him before he loses value.

Also not a fan of tossing away future 1sts, especially long before we know the position they'll be. A 2023 1st at the deadline brings more clarity, you assume by then it would at least be not any higher than 17, but in a strong draft year, even that can be very valuable. Trading a 2024 could be reckless. You have no idea would happen in the next year and a half.

I think deciding on whether you trade picks or prospects can also depend on what year you are in. For example, during the Foligno debacle of a deadline, I preferred trading out picks that year since we had just come off the 2020 draft taking 12 players. Last year's deadline also saw a bunch of picks go out. This year, I'd prefer prospects to go. Just stay away from Knies, Minten and Niemela if possible.
 
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Avilaj07 said:
To Toronto-
Jakob Chychrun
Lawson Crouse

To Arizona-
Alex Kerfoot
Rasmus Sandin
Nick Robertson
Pierre Engvall
1st Round Pick
Click to expand...

I just don’t trust that these guys can get the job done here. Crouse may just float around here like Ritchie did - our culture is not great. Crouse would fit in well on teams like NYI, Boston, Calgary, STL, etc. Crouse and Ritchie both have approx 10 pts this year on a wretched team... Chychrun is a good get for a 2LD but I have a tough time parting with Sandin…. I dunno. I’m not sold on this.
 
I don’t think Shanny would even approve Dubas trading two first round picks considering his future with the team is on the line this season.

dubplatepressure said:
I just don’t trust that these guys can get the job done here. Crouse may just float around here like Ritchie did - our culture is not great. Crouse would fit in well on teams like NYI, Boston, Calgary, STL, etc. Crouse and Ritchie both have approx 10 pts this year on a wretched team... Chychrun is a good get for a 2LD but I have a tough time parting with Sandin…. I dunno. I’m not sold on this.
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Crouse is a better skater than Ritchie and his IQ is higher but I do agree, that’s what scares me from acquiring Crouse. He may just be a slightly better fit than Ritchie. We don’t play his style of game and I’m not sure he can keep up with our skilled players. I can potentially see a pretty good fit playing alongside Tavares.
 
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Gary Nylund said:
If the price for Chychrun is two 1st round picks and say Robertson, my first thought is that it's worth considering. Would be interested to hear what others think. It sounds like a fair price, we're in win now mode, he would help us not just this season but for years to come and odds are pretty god that these picks will be late 1st round picks and therefore it could end up that none of these 3 assets we give up end up being anywhere near as good as Chychrun. So tell me, is there a good reason that we shouldn't be willing to pay this price?
Click to expand...


To start, I'd insist the picks are top 5 protected. That is still a risk. But it isn't like the Leafs core is getting younger, and Chychrun's age is ideal, even if his injury history isn't.

Engvall, Kerfoot, Abruzzese, Anderson, 1st. in 2023, 1st. in 2024. (Or Robertson in lieu of one of the 1st. rounders)

Chychrun, Brown, 4th. rounder in 2023.

Creating contract space.
Moving pending UFA's
Moving prospect that has to clear waivers.
Paying dearly for Chychrun.
Creating space for top prospects from Marlies.
 
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I’m a little more open to the idea of adding Schenn with all our injuries. I wonder if Vancouver would be interest in a prospect in return.
 
Rather than Crouse, is Hayton the forward target from Arizona? We may see him as a reclamation project, Coyotes may not be ready to give up on him.

Wondering if he could become the perfect 3C for the team, helping on the PK as well. The issue is, he may not be ready for the big assignment we require for this year, and he may never reach the upside down the line, so the price might be steep for someone who may never become what we are targeting in that scenario.
 
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Fogelhund said:
As I've said, just before you posted, that top 4 need, doesn't solve the Rielly is out issue anyway... so if that's our biggest need, it's no more important necessarily that before. A Murphy, Gavrikov, Roy, Peeke, Zub, Orlov, Schenn... whatever your flavour is... none of these guys do what Mo does anyway.... So, we are in the same situation today, as we were the day before.

I still think we need time to decide, if that's our biggest need, or 2LW, or 3C, or....
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I think 3C is a bigger deal unless a guy totally sucks or gets hurt. Our 6 guys even without Muzzin are good enough, and I am not seeing too many adds on that list above which move the needle enough to justify the cost.

It has to be a larger move (and not many make sense there either) or we should get a 3C to upgrade Holmberg.
 
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Judas Tavares said:
Rather than Crouse, is Hayton the forward target from Arizona? We may see him as a reclamation project, Coyotes may not be ready to give up on him.

Wondering if he could become the perfect 3C for the team, helping on the PK as well. The issue is, he may not be ready for the big assignment we require for this year, and he may never reach the upside down the line, so the price might be steep for someone who may never become what we are targeting in that scenario.
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Hayton makes a lot of sense, but it depends on cost.

:leafs
C Barrett Hayton
RD Conor Timmins

:coyotes
LW/C Nick Abruzzese
LW Pierre Engvall (flipped to 3rd team)
RW Pavel Gogolev (contract dump)
2nd round pick 2025 (they keep both Lyubushkin picks)

That would be the absolute ceiling for me, and I would try to get a better deal (maybe lower the pick).
 
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SeaOfBlue said:
Hayton makes a lot of sense, but it depends on cost.

:leafs
C Barrett Hayton
RD Conor Timmins

:yotes
LW/C Nick Abruzzese
LW Pierre Engvall (flipped to 3rd team)
RW Pavel Gogolev (contract dump)
2nd round pick 2025 (they keep both Lyubushkin picks)

That would be the absolute ceiling for me.
Click to expand...

I don't even know if we're a better team after this trade, tbh.

Personally, I'd like to bring in Klingberg.
 
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TMLAM34 said:
I don’t think Shanny would even approve Dubas trading two first round picks considering his future with the team is on the line this season.


Crouse is a better skater than Ritchie and his IQ is higher but I do agree, that’s what scares me from acquiring Crouse. He may just be a slightly better fit than Ritchie. We don’t play his style of game and I’m not sure he can keep up with our skilled players. I can potentially see a pretty good fit playing alongside Tavares.
Click to expand...

Oh I agree that Crouse is better than Ritchie, but yah I'm worried that 'fit' is a real issue right now. We've brought in guys like Foligno, Ritchie, Simmonds, Clifford, etc... they sucked. We have a culture of puppy dogs and the tougher guys who play a low, cycle game that can grind and get in your face just don't seem to gel here. IMO it's a culture thing, and one bottom-6 guy is not going to make a difference in changing that. I think we're headed for some big moves in the summer, and am really apprehensive about trading 2x firsts and one of our only high end prospects in the meantime.
 
SeaOfBlue said:
Hayton makes a lot of sense, but it depends on cost.

:leafs
C Barrett Hayton
RD Conor Timmins

:coyotes
LW/C Nick Abruzzese
LW Pierre Engvall (flipped to 3rd team)
RW Pavel Gogolev (contract dump)
2nd round pick 2025 (they keep both Lyubushkin picks)

That would be the absolute ceiling for me, and I would try to get a better deal (maybe lower the pick).
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This is one of the most balanced and plausible trade proposals that I've seen here in a long long time.

Checks off many boxes for us without gross over-pay or unreasonable imbalance.

Well done!
 
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SeaOfBlue said:
Hayton makes a lot of sense, but it depends on cost.

:leafs
C Barrett Hayton
RD Conor Timmins

:coyotes
LW/C Nick Abruzzese
LW Pierre Engvall (flipped to 3rd team)
RW Pavel Gogolev (contract dump)
2nd round pick 2025 (they keep both Lyubushkin picks)

That would be the absolute ceiling for me, and I would try to get a better deal (maybe lower the pick).
Click to expand...

I'd do it. Timmins is a reclamation project worth investing in due to RHD and size and former potential. Hayton has higher upside. I may also look at a guy like Comtois as a reclamation project on the wing to replace Engvall.
 
SeaOfBlue said:
I think 3C is a bigger deal unless a guy totally sucks or gets hurt. Our 6 guys even without Muzzin are good enough, and I am not seeing too many adds on that list above which move the needle enough to justify the cost.

It has to be a larger move (and not many make sense there either) or we should get a 3C to upgrade Holmberg.
Click to expand...

I'm willing to give Holmberg a few more games, to see how he performs as he gets more comfortable. His last game was his best.
 
Can’t say I’ve really been impressed with Holmberg at all… Seems more like the bottom sixer that we currently have too many of.
 
ToneDog said:
Can't say I he has shown me much to care whether they send him down. Looking like another MEH player which we have too many of.
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The whole bottom 6 can be blown up and replaced. I know that's not realistic but would any of those players be missed?
 
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