Trades and Free Agency - 2022-23 Season Edition

[LeafSteel]

His cap hit is 2m, not 2.5m, he's provided that value and more, and what he's done since the expansion draft is really irrelevant to the decision that had to be made at the time of the expansion draft anyway. Holl had just played a significant role for our team and would have needed to be replaced if he left, which would have been costly that summer.

I like how you said that you're not going to get into who's better, and then immediately got into who's better. They're similar quality players that play similar roles at a similar level.

$2 or $2.5, doesn't change what he is.

Bolded added just to "make you happy", since there is no way to discuss anything with you without you arguing every point to death and beyond.

 

[Martin Skoula]

It won't be popular and definitely beating a dead horse, but how much better off would we be if Dubas had just kept it simple at the Expansion draft, kept McCann, and exposed/lost one of Kerfoot or Holl?

Bunting-Matthews-Nylander
McCann-Tavares-Marner.

We have a better top 6 with one less hole to plug, and removes a player from our roster, most likely Kerfoot, who really isn't a great loss. Meanwhile, we'd have the better player who can play LW or C if needed.

There, I said it, and I will leave it at that......

McCann as in the guy making 5 million a season to score the same amount of points as Kerfoot despite getting 1st line minutes and PP time?

 

[LeafSteel]

McCann as in the guy making 5 million a season to score the same amount of points as Kerfoot despite getting 1st line minutes and PP time?

Yes.

I don't care about the points and usage, as his usage here would be different.

I am looking at the capabilities that he brings that are better overall than what Kerfoot brings.

Kerfoot, for all the praise he gets for being a "Swiss knife", still doesn't do anything great and hasn't solidified his place in his time here. Not dynamic enough for Top 6, whereas McCann is.

With Kerfoot earning $3.5 against the Cap, and a UFA after this season, along with what he will re-sign for (somewhere else, hopefully) I know where my preference lies.

 

[Dekes For Days]

$2 or $2.5, doesn't change what he is.

There actually is a difference between 2.0m and 2.5m, and what that means for his value to us and his replaceability, but more importantly, if you're going to rehash a years-old argument to argue, without justification or consideration for the actual ramifications, that we would have been better off going down a different path in the expansion draft, it's important to actually know the details of the players involved.

If we jump through the hoops to keep McCann, we likely end up paying more than Holl to replace Holl, and we end up paying more than Kerfoot for McCann, who is similar quality to Kerfoot. That doesn't improve us. That makes us worse.

 

[TMLAM34]

Kerfoot for Myers (2.5 million retained, equaling the cap hits)

Brodie - Liljegren
Rielly - Myers
Giordano - Sandin/Holl

 

[4thline]

Actually, the more I think about it the more I'd like to see a line up shake up before we make a move.

Bunting-Matthews-Nylander
Robertson-Tavares-Marner
Kerfoot-Kampf-Jarncrok
ZAR-Holmberg-Malgin

Before you say it - yes that 3rd line was "tried" earlier in the season. Yes it got caved in. No 5 minutes is not enough to write it off.

If that lineup some time to gel. Give NickRob some time to get comfortable. If he doesn't work out, give Steeves a shot, or drop Bunting to line two, move willy to the left and give Anderson a shot. Stop trying to find a home for Engvall, slot players where they should be for this team to be effective, and see who pulls their weight.

 

[LeafSteel]

There actually is a difference between 2.0m and 2.5m, and what that means for his value to us and his replaceability, but more importantly, if you're going to rehash a years-old argument to argue, without justification or consideration for the actual ramifications, that we would have been better off going down a different path in the expansion draft, it's important to actually know the details of the players involved.

If we jump through the hoops to keep McCann, we likely end up paying more than Holl to replace Holl, and we end up paying more than Kerfoot for McCann, who is similar quality to Kerfoot. That doesn't improve us. That makes us worse.

All of this for $500K is everything. Just laughable, but carry on carrying on..... I'm done.

 

[Tony Romo]

Guys we need scoring, unless the defender we are adding goes by Erik Karlsson, adding myers does nothing for us. We struggle to score, we struggle to score in elimination games in the playoffs.

 

[Dekes For Days]

All of this for $500K is everything.

500k isn't "everything", but knowing the details of the players you're talking about is pretty important. That was just one of the things you got wrong.

 

[jaric1862]

Not overly enthusiastic to hear the Leafs are interested in Tyler Myers.

Who said they were interested?

To be honest, if they could get him at 3 mil-3.5 mil I think it makes some sense.

 

[MarMarSab3]

Must go: Kerfoot, Engvall, Holl, Malgin
Demote: Sandin , Robertson, both need more seasoning

Bunting Matthews Nylander
******** Tavares Marner
******** Holmberg Jarnkrok
Aston-Reese Kampf ******

Reilly *****
Brodie Liljegren
Giordano Benn

That's alot of holes to fill

 

[Knies iT]

We'd probably be worse off. If we were protecting McCann, that means we went 7-3. We'd lose Holl (our only RHD, and half of our great shutdown pairing the year before), and we would have needed to sign a defenseman to replace him during the summer when every defenseman was getting massively overpaid. We'd have to trade an equivalent forward in Kerfoot for undervalue, and likely lose an additional piece last year to cover the price discrepancy between Holl and our new D signing.

And then this year, we'd have to lose more from our roster to cover the extra 1.5m we're paying for McCann relative to Kerfoot. And of course, McCann wouldn't get the top PP time he gets in Seattle, so he wouldn't be producing as much.

Oh the horror! None of this is complex or hard to navigate for a run of the mill GM.

 

[TMLAM34]

Must go: Kerfoot, Engvall, Holl, Malgin
Demote: Sandin , Robertson, both need more seasoning

Bunting Matthews Nylander
******** Tavares Marner
******** Holmberg Jarnkrok
Aston-Reese Kampf ******

Reilly *****
Brodie Liljegren
Giordano Benn

That's alot of holes to fill

If you’re entering the playoffs with Holmberg as your third line center and the invisible Jarnkrok on his wing…. That’s a disaster. You look at previous Stanley Cup winners, their third line has an identity that play tough, are aggressive, score timely goals, etc. We’re not getting that from Holmberg and Jarnkrok and whatever princess we throw on the left wing.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Oh the horror! None of this is complex or hard to navigate for a run of the mill GM.

The point you seem to have missed is that it doesn't benefit us or make anything better. It's just complicating things and ending up in a worse position.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Yes.

I don't care about the points and usage, as his usage here would be different.

I am looking at the capabilities that he brings that are better overall than what Kerfoot brings.

Kerfoot, for all the praise he gets for being a "Swiss knife", still doesn't do anything great and hasn't solidified his place in his time here. Not dynamic enough for Top 6, whereas McCann is.

With Kerfoot earning $3.5 against the Cap, and a UFA after this season, along with what he will re-sign for (somewhere else, hopefully) I know where my preference lies.

McCann brings a shot, that's about it. You would be insane to re-sign him to 5x5 with an NTC, just keep Hyman at that point. I don't want to keep Kerfoot but he's objectively better bang for the buck at this point. He outscored McCann by 18 points at ES for 1.5 mil cheaper, unless you think McCann is taking one of Matthews Marner Nylander Tavares off PP1 you'd be stuck paying 5 mil for mediocre 3rd line numbers.

 

[stickty111]

Just highlighting an instance where Dubas didn't pass the test and left us worse off.....

For sure lots of GM's haven't passed tests in some moves

 

[TimeZone]

Like many of us thought in the offseason, our forward group is dogshit.


We need to focus on addressing that first and foremost.

 

[stickty111]

$2 or $2.5, doesn't change what he is.

Bolded added just to "make you happy", since there is no way to discuss anything with you without you arguing every point to death and beyond.

I mean you brought up this topic when we weren't even discussing it.
I wasn't happy losing McCann but it's not this franchise altering move you seem to be talking at length about.

 

[TMLAM34]

To Toronto: Tyler Bertuzzi + Michael Rasmussen
To Detroit: 2023 1st Rounder + Nick Robertson + Justin Holl


Bertuzzi - Matthews - Nylander
Knies - Tavares - Marner
Bunting - Rasmussen - Steeves
Aston Reese - Kampf - Anderson


Ship Kerfoot and Engvall to the moon. Jarnkrok can continue to be invisible on the third line with Rasmussen and Steeves while Bunting can play with Tavares and Marner until Knies makes his debut.

Then focus on fixing the blueline.

 

[ToneDog]

Like many of us thought in the offseason, our forward group is dogshit.


We need to focus on addressing that first and foremost.

At this point, with the stick boy in charge it would most likely be putting lipstick on a pig. Hoping they have a drop dead date for deciding whether to extend Dubas or not and it is not at the end of the season/playoffs.

I mean what else is there for them to see ??

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

Maybe we should keep our 1st this year...

 

[mydnyte]

Guys we need scoring, unless the defender we are adding goes by Erik Karlsson, adding myers does nothing for us. We struggle to score, we struggle to score in elimination games in the playoffs.

we have plenty of scoring, what we need is a solid defensive defender that doesnt toss lemons up ice (Holl and Sandin) and isnt a #6-7 d-man on the top pairing too.

 

[Tony Romo]

we have plenty of scoring, what we need is a solid defensive defender that doesnt toss lemons up ice (Holl and Sandin) and isnt a #6-7 d-man on the top pairing too.

we rank 20th in GF's in all strengths and 24th in GF all strength in the last 3 game 5's/7's leafs have scored 2 goals and have been shutout once.

so unless replacing Sandin/Holl makes our goalies pitch shutouts in meaningful games, we probably will still not score a lot.

 

[LeafSteel]

I mean you brought up this topic when we weren't even discussing it.
I wasn't happy losing McCann but it's not this franchise altering move you seem to be talking at length about.

Please don't put words in my mouth. At no point did I say it was a "franchise altering move". Those are your words, not mine.

The thread was talking about moving out Kerfoot and our need for a 3C and a 2LW. I stated the opinion that this situation would have been avoided by keeping McCann.

The rest is just Dekes not being able to let anything go that he doesn't agree with, as per the usual.

 

[pspot]

jost on waivers.....