Rumor: Trade Thread XVIII: Brace Yourselves. Friday Is Coming.

[NYR Viper]

I know. How dare we expect our "#1C" to put up points comparable to other players playing the same position

So you move a player who is being asked to play above his head? Wouldn't you want to hang onto that player and slot them down?

 

[AHB*]

Yup. He's a legitimate second line center in this league, and I still believe he has some room to grow offensively. Either way, he'll almost certainly be a very effective centerman for the majority of his career.

He's not flashy enough, though, we need to move him for a guy with GUSTA like Grabovski!

What person said they would trade him for Grabo? I think i was the only person that brought him up. And i said he would be the kind of guy we sign as a stop-gap instead of wasting 7 Mil in cap space on someone like Stastny. Never did i advocate a trade for him.


This team is not going to win a cup with Steps as their #1C. He's an ideal #2. He's a good piece, but sometimes to get those prime pieces, you have to move a good one. Again, i'd prefer to keep him, but people who talk about trading him for an upgrade aren't as insane as you make them out to be. and yes, only a young upgrade or someone with elite potential who is young. (not stastny).

Are you sure about that?

The Blackhawks just won the cup with Toews/Handzus down the middle. Toews is obviously elite, but Handzus is garbage. AND, Toews had a very sub-par playoffs. That team was carried by their wingers and defensemen, Crawford played well too.

Brassard is on pace for 46 points in somewhat limited ice time on the 3rd line. I can say with utmost certainty that he can put up 55 points with 2nd line ice time. Stastny is pretty much a lock for 65 points as well, and has put up well over 70 several times. I'd bet money he won't have a problem hitting 70 with Nash and Kreider on his wings. He's also excellent on draws.

Lol..and you propose Grabovski as slotting into our #1C spot as an upgrade, and then call Stastny a 1B? You're kidding right?

Do you purposely ignore what i wrote? Grabo was signed as a 1 year stop gap. You realize how that works, right? Instead of throwing 6 or 7 years at Stastny, which he'll likely get, with a major cap hit, you save that money for someone who is....worth it, eventually, instead of locking yourself into a massive contract for someone who frankly, is not a massive upgrade.

Do you watch Stastny play. Sure, he's good, but do you really think a center group of Stastny, Stepan and Brassard/Miller is going to win you a cup. More so, you advocated for Stastny, Brassard, Miller......

Tell me, when was the last time Stastny put up 70 points....(and remember brad richards, bet you were expecting 90 with him and Gabby).

And dude, Toews is ten times better then any center we have. so yes, my point still stands, you need an ELITE center to win a cup, or two VERY GOOD, centers, liek Boston with Kreijci and Bergeron.

 

[NYR Viper]

What person said they would trade him for Grabo? I think i was the only person that brought him up. And i said he would be the kind of guy we sign as a stop-gap instead of wasting 7 Mil in cap space on someone like Stastny. Never did i advocate a trade for him.


This team is not going to win a cup with Steps as their #1C. He's an ideal #2. He's a good piece, but sometimes to get those prime pieces, you have to move a good one. Again, i'd prefer to keep him, but people who talk about trading him for an upgrade aren't as insane as you make them out to be.



Do you purposely ignore what i wrote? Grabo was signed as a 1 year stop gap. You realize how that works, right? Instead of throwing 6 or 7 years at Stastny, which he'll likely get, with a major cap hit, you save that money for someone who is....worth it, eventually, instead of locking yourself into a massive contract for someone who frankly, is not a massive upgrade.

Do you watch Stastny play. Sure, he's good, but do you really think a center group of Stastny, Stepan and Brassard/Miller is going to win you a cup. More so, you advocated for Stastny, Brassard, Miller......

Tell me, when was the last time Stastny put up 70 points....

And dude, Toews is ten times better then any center we have. so yes, my point still stands, you need an ELITE center to win a cup, or two VERY GOOD, centers, liek Boston with Kreijci and Bergeron.

Stasnty + Stepan would be a solid 1/2 punch with Brassard as the 3c. That center group would be more than capable of winning a Cup.

I'm not advocating signing him for 7 years @ 7+ million, but that's a solid group.

 

[NYR Viper]

This may be the worst "deadline" ever

 

[AHB*]

Stasnty + Stepan would be a solid 1/2 punch with Brassard as the 3c. That center group would be more than capable of winning a Cup.

I'm not advocating signing him for 7 years @ 7+ million, but that's a solid group.

I really don't agree. But that's fine. Stastny is a 50-60 point center now. He is better then Richards, but is he really going to put up that many more points....nope. Look at their past few seasons.

I really don't like Richards, he is slow, bad at defense and it seems liek pucks just bounce off him all the time and somehow he puts up points, Stastny isn't like that, but the realist in me knows BR must be doing something right.

Regardless, I don't think that's an upgrade to the point of cup contention. I don't think we win with that. I think it'd be much better to hold onto that 7 Mil and wait it out.

 

[TheTakedown]

Stasnty + Stepan would be a solid 1/2 punch with Brassard as the 3c. That center group would be more than capable of winning a Cup.

I'm not advocating signing him for 7 years @ 7+ million, but that's a solid group.

I could see that happening, especially is Richards is bought out. Would be reasonable to expect Stewart to be pulled in to play with him as well...

WHich unfortunately means you then still have Nash stuck with Step...

Still think Richards stays though

 

[AHB*]

I could see that happening, especially is Richards is bought out. Would be reasonable to expect Stewart to be pulled in to play with him as well...

WHich unfortunately means you then still have Nash stuck with Step...

Still think Richards stays though

Of all scenarios, this is the worst.

 

[NYR Viper]

I really don't agree. But that's fine. Stastny is a 50-60 point center now. He is better then Richards, but is he really going to put up that many more points....nope. Look at their past few seasons.

I really don't like Richards, he is slow, bad at defense and it seems liek pucks just bounce off him all the time and somehow he puts up points, Stastny isn't like that, but the realist in me knows BR must be doing something right.

Regardless, I don't think that's an upgrade to the point of cup contention. I don't think we win with that. I think it'd be much better to hold onto that 7 Mil and wait it out.

Stastny and Richards may be comparable points-wise but Stastny is the better overall player. Easily.

It all depends on how good you are elsewhere as well. Teams don't play 3C's vs 3C's.

 

[Beacon]

im sure all dman that are 25 years old have fully developed.. Allen is only 24, im sure his time as a player developing is running out

Allen's development time IS running out. If Allen had been 20 years old right now and playing at this level, we'd be looking at him as a potential #1-#2 defenseman. If he were 22 years old and playing at this level, we'd hope he'll be a #2-#4 defenseman. But precisely because he turned 24 years old last week, we view him as a potential third-pair defenseman.

Allen is almost a year and a half younger than Falk, and that matters at this age. By the end of the next season (2014-15), Allen's development will be next to over with only minor adjustments to make him a more effective player at whatever level he's at. If by the end of next season he's in the AHL, the odds of him having a long-term career as a quality NHLer will be very slim.

 

[BLOCKERSAVE]

Vanek turned down 7 years and $50M. One of the hockey insiders said many NHL GMs were floored Vanek rejected that contract. The Rangers would be fools to give him that or more. Vanek is getting 7 years and at least $7M.

Maybe, Vanek didn't want to play for the Islanders. He might get a little less from another team, but that team can be in the post season.

 

[DelZottoHitTheNetJK]

So you move a player who is being asked to play above his head? Wouldn't you want to hang onto that player and slot them down?

There's no reason to slot him down when we have Brassard; Brassard and Stepan are redundant pieces IMO. To me, there's no point in having both of them on the team when Miller is looking better and better each day that passes. I would rather trade Stepan while he has solid value instead of potentially getting into another MDZ situation where heaven forbid Stepan has another down year next year and we're sitting here looking to move him and we're getting Kevin Klein in return

What person said they would trade him for Grabo? I think i was the only person that brought him up. And i said he would be the kind of guy we sign as a stop-gap instead of wasting 7 Mil in cap space on someone like Stastny. Never did i advocate a trade for him.


This team is not going to win a cup with Steps as their #1C. He's an ideal #2. He's a good piece, but sometimes to get those prime pieces, you have to move a good one. Again, i'd prefer to keep him, but people who talk about trading him for an upgrade aren't as insane as you make them out to be. and yes, only a young upgrade or someone with elite potential who is young. (not stastny).



Do you purposely ignore what i wrote? Grabo was signed as a 1 year stop gap. You realize how that works, right? Instead of throwing 6 or 7 years at Stastny, which he'll likely get, with a major cap hit, you save that money for someone who is....worth it, eventually, instead of locking yourself into a massive contract for someone who frankly, is not a massive upgrade.

Do you watch Stastny play. Sure, he's good, but do you really think a center group of Stastny, Stepan and Brassard/Miller is going to win you a cup. More so, you advocated for Stastny, Brassard, Miller......

Tell me, when was the last time Stastny put up 70 points....(and remember brad richards, bet you were expecting 90 with him and Gabby).

And dude, Toews is ten times better then any center we have. so yes, my point still stands, you need an ELITE center to win a cup, or two VERY GOOD, centers, liek Boston with Kreijci and Bergeron.

I agree that this team won't truly compete with Stepan as the #1C. Grabovski will not be signing another 1 year deal, so the point is moot. He had the ability to sign that 1 year deal because he was bought out from Toronto; he didn't exactly have a shortage of income. Those situations are the exception, not the rule. I'll bet everything I own Stastny puts up 65-70 points over 82 centering Nash and Kreider. You think he's a 50-60 point guy. Agree to disagree

Stasnty + Stepan would be a solid 1/2 punch with Brassard as the 3c. That center group would be more than capable of winning a Cup.

I'm not advocating signing him for 7 years @ 7+ million, but that's a solid group.

Agreed. Although I'd rather give the 3C slot to Miller, trade Step for a potential high end winger and move Brassard to 2C. But then again, I'm really high on Miller. It's a risky move if he struggles although he seems to get better every time I see him play whether its in HFD or NYR

 

[TheTakedown]

Of all scenarios, this is the worst.

It may not be the best, but there are other options if he is not bought out, as some others have explained.

Regardless, I'm indifferent about it at this point.

Stastny and Richards may be comparable points-wise but Stastny is the better overall player. Easily.

It all depends on how good you are elsewhere as well. Teams don't play 3C's vs 3C's.

What makes Statsny the better overall player?

 

[Punxrocknyc19*]

This may be the worst "deadline" ever

imagine if it is like this on the actual deadline day

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

So, between Stepan and Brassard, you move Stepan?

Ugh.

 

[AHB*]

Stastny and Richards may be comparable points-wise but Stastny is the better overall player. Easily.

It all depends on how good you are elsewhere as well. Teams don't play 3C's vs 3C's.

Yea, as i said, i agree on that point. He is "easily" better. But it's almost always true that teams need elite or near elite centers to win cups. When was the last time a team won a cup with guys like Stepan and Stastny as their top 2? I mean look at the recent winners

2013 - Toews
2012 - Kopitar & Richards
2011 - Kreijci & Bergeron (Probably the closest, but both are better then the 2 we would have)
2010 - Toews, Sharp
2009 - Crosby, Malkin
2008 - Datsyuk, Zetterberg
2007 - Getzlaf
2006 - E. Staal

There is one single team in that group that won without a full-blown elite centerman in the NHL. That's all since the lockout. That was Boston. Both those players are better and were then, then Stepan and Stastny.

It may not be impossible, but that's not following the model that every team has won the cup with since the "new NHL."

 

[TheTakedown]

There's no reason to slot him down when we have Brassard; Brassard and Stepan are redundant pieces IMO. To me, there's no point in having both of them on the team when Miller is looking better and better each day that passes. I would rather trade Stepan while he has solid value instead of potentially getting into another MDZ situation where heaven forbid Stepan has another down year next year and we're sitting here looking to move him and we're getting Kevin Klein in return

Except that Miller doesn't do enough on his call ups to the big leagues. Whether you want to believe it or not, he comes and sticks to the 3rd line, and he does not produce. Still needs further developing...

Although the argument to this is to let him develop in the big leagues on the 3rd line...

I agree that this team won't truly compete with Stepan as the #1C. Grabovski will not be signing another 1 year deal, so the point is moot. He had the ability to sign that 1 year deal because he was bought out from Toronto; he didn't exactly have a shortage of income. Those situations are the exception, not the rule. I'll bet everything I own Stastny puts up 65-70 points over 82 centering Nash and Kreider. You think he's a 50-60 point guy. Agree to disagree

So Grabovski vs Stastny, who will be better worth the $7M we'll have to pay for him?

Agreed. Although I'd rather give the 3C slot to Miller, trade Step for a potential high end winger and move Brassard to 2C. But then again, I'm really high on Miller. It's a risky move if he struggles although he seems to get better every time I see him play whether its in HFD or NYR

Again, best case scenario is that the propsect blows your socks off. How many times has that mentality failed us in the past 4 years?

 

[Jackpot]

Not even a tweet regarding possible player movement. So much for the roster freeze hype..

 

[TheTakedown]

Yea, as i said, i agree on that point. He is "easily" better. But it's almost always true that teams need elite or near elite centers to win cups. When was the last time a team won a cup with guys like Stepan and Stastny as their top 2? I mean look at the recent winners

2013 - Toews
2012 - Kopitar & Richards
2011 - Kreijci & Bergeron (Probably the closest, but both are better then the 2 we would have)
2010 - Toews, Sharp
2009 - Crosby, Malkin
2008 - Datsyuk, Zetterberg
2007 - Getzlaf
2006 - E. Staal

There is one single team in that group that won without a full-blown elite centerman in the NHL. That's all since the lockout. That was Boston. Both those players are better and were then, then Stepan and Stastny.

It may not be impossible, but that's not following the model that every team has won the cup with since the "new NHL."

If Eric Staal is so good, what's been the reason why NY hasn't been balls to the walls to get him?

 

[AHB*]

Lol @ Brassard > Stepan. That's lunacy. At least Stepan brings other things to the game when he's not scoring.

Also, what high end winger are you trading Stepan for? Centers are more valuable. Especialy a top 6 one like Stepan. We're not getting OV or Patrick Kane for him.

 

[AHB*]

If Eric Staal is so good, what's been the reason why NY hasn't been balls to the walls to get him?

Don't know what this even means, but Eric Staal had 100 points the season they won the cup. That's elite. Way more elite then our centers are sniffing.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

If Eric Staal is so good, what's been the reason why NY hasn't been balls to the walls to get him?

Why would he be available?

 

[NYR Viper]

So, between Stepan and Brassard, you move Stepan?

Ugh.

Yeah...Seems odd

It may not be the best, but there are other options if he is not bought out, as some others have explained.

Regardless, I'm indifferent about it at this point.



What makes Statsny the better overall player?

Faceoff percentage, better skater, younger, better defensive awareness.

There's no reason to slot him down when we have Brassard; Brassard and Stepan are redundant pieces IMO. To me, there's no point in having both of them on the team when Miller is looking better and better each day that passes. I would rather trade Stepan while he has solid value instead of potentially getting into another MDZ situation where heaven forbid Stepan has another down year next year and we're sitting here looking to move him and we're getting Kevin Klein in return




I agree that this team won't truly compete with Stepan as the #1C. Grabovski will not be signing another 1 year deal, so the point is moot. He had the ability to sign that 1 year deal because he was bought out from Toronto; he didn't exactly have a shortage of income. Those situations are the exception, not the rule. I'll bet everything I own Stastny puts up 65-70 points over 82 centering Nash and Kreider. You think he's a 50-60 point guy. Agree to disagree



Agreed. Although I'd rather give the 3C slot to Miller, trade Step for a potential high end winger and move Brassard to 2C. But then again, I'm really high on Miller. It's a risky move if he struggles although he seems to get better every time I see him play whether its in HFD or NYR

I like Miller, but if the team wants to compete for a Cup next season, Miller can't be a full time 3C. Development time will be needed. Bumps will happen.

Yea, as i said, i agree on that point. He is "easily" better. But it's almost always true that teams need elite or near elite centers to win cups. When was the last time a team won a cup with guys like Stepan and Stastny as their top 2? I mean look at the recent winners

2013 - Toews
2012 - Kopitar & Richards
2011 - Kreijci & Bergeron (Probably the closest, but both are better then the 2 we would have)
2010 - Toews, Sharp
2009 - Crosby, Malkin
2008 - Datsyuk, Zetterberg
2007 - Getzlaf
2006 - E. Staal

There is one single team in that group that won without a full-blown elite centerman in the NHL. That's all since the lockout. That was Boston. Both those players are better and were then, then Stepan and Stastny.

It may not be impossible, but that's not following the model that every team has won the cup with since the "new NHL."

What is the main difference between a team having Staal and having Stepan and Stastny? If the centers are 2-way players it's not as big of a deal.

If you have a 90 point #1 center and a 50 point #2 center vs a 70 point #1 center and a 70 point #2 center what's the difference?

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Yeah...Seems odd

To the normal eye, yes, but I feel it is quite clear that this particular poster feels the need to push his agenda whenever possible, therefore creating ridiculous stories, like Brassard being nearly as valuable as Stepan.

 

[charliemurphy]

any high end impact deal will usually involve our best players going the other way.

stepans name would be in any of those deals. not sure the appetite to move him.

unless hes moved and we get back a better 1/2 c, he stays. derek really isnt our problem. if he plays the 2c, hes right in that sweet spot for his game.

we need to get better- bigger/faster/more creative at center. beevers gone next season and right now, stepan and brash are not 1c's.

you keep the good stuff. you move the weak stuff and you fill in with better stuff.

capice ?

Stepan isn't going anywhere. If he's moving its down to the 2nd line with the intent of Sather parting with Callahan and signing a top 1C in the offseason. Not saying he's planning to do this but we should anticipate him going after a top winger, ideally a LW to say the least. If that's the plan, then the top 2 lines will look like:

Krieder-?-Nash
?-Stepan-MZA

Stepan isn't the problem. The problem is what players will be complimenting him and Krieder on the top lines.
Do some people remember what this team was like shortly after 04'? There were people going bat ***** over players like Balej and Ortmeyer. The Rangers have done a good job since 04' despite a bunch of questionable picks come draft day.
Kind of makes me think of what this team would have looked like if Cherepanov had lived and turned out to be what he was expected to be.
They're not that far off.

 

[AHB*]

To the normal eye, yes, but I feel it is quite clear that this particular poster feels the need to push his agenda whenever possible, therefore creating ridiculous stories, like Brassard being nearly as valuable as Stepan.

If he only learned to shoot more....he'd be a lot better.

Still, he's nowhere near Stepan.