Salary Cap: Trade Thread # LXVI: Well..... Were waiting!?!?

[Big Friggin Dummy]

All in all I still expect the FO to pull off one of the Carter-type of moves that's under the radar and cheap enough to either be a pleasant surprise or just simply shrug off if it doesn't work out. If we had a better idea of how Geno and Letang's contracts were going to play out, maybe they'd be more aggressive, but I don't know.

Expecting another boring TDL around the league and with regard to the Pens.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think this is probably posturing from the Canucks to try and get more value in a potential trade, but interesting nonetheless.

 

[MayorofWBS]

So I see the mental gymnastics have started today with rationalizing why we should take another milquetoast defenseman (I'm being very, very nice to Poolman) with craptastic AAV and term on his contract. I don't think Poolman would play over Ruh unless Ruh was hurt. That's how little I think of Poolman's ability. Total fixation has set in on Boeser.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

So I see the mental gymnastics have started today with rationalizing why we should take another milquetoast defenseman (I'm being very, very nice to Poolman) with craptastic AAV and term on his contract. I don't think Poolman would play over Ruh unless Ruh was hurt. That's how little I think of Poolman's ability. Total fixation has set in on Boeser.

Well when your last chance at a Cup is predicated on finding Geno a winger, this is what you have to eat

 

[Peat]

If he returns to a top-4 level ala Ceci and provides what Pettersson does at $2.5 vs $4.0, then it's not a problem. It's quite advantageous to us. My worry is that we have Rudwedel who's been just fine and we are starting to see an emerging Freidman who is making it tough on Sullivan to take him out. So I'm not necessarily convinced that brining in a potential $2.5mil #7 is the best use of cap space at the moment.

Petts+Kapanen for Boeser+Poolman does make a bit of sense. That really reminds me of the Kessel+Johnson for Zucker+Rask proposal a couple of years ago.

If he's actually top 4 capable, he'd be a coup. The deal would be horrendously lopsided in our favour. Nobody would give a tinker's damn about Ruh. But so very few people other than you seem to think he is.




edit: Not surprised tbh on Empo's post. If I were the Canucks looking at how this young core's reacted to BB, I'd try and keep Boeser instead of making a disadvantaged deal too.

 

[Empoleon8771]

So I see the mental gymnastics have started today with rationalizing why we should take another milquetoast defenseman (I'm being very, very nice to Poolman) with craptastic AAV and term on his contract. I don't think Poolman would play over Ruh unless Ruh was hurt. That's how little I think of Poolman's ability. Total fixation has set in on Boeser.

No one is saying "we should bring in Poolman for shits and giggles", the discussion is whether it's worth bringing him in if it also meant the Penguins would be acquiring Boeser.

 

[Gurglesons]

Honestly, Boeser is a nice piece, but I think there are potential better fits.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Well when your last chance at a Cup is predicated on finding Geno a winger, this is what you have to eat

I think that's pretty much what it boils down to for me. Losing a Petts, or a Marino, or a Kapanen isn't gonna change this team's chances at a Cup nearly as much as going into another playoffs with all its eggs in the GCR basket yet again.

 

[3ladesof5teel]

So I see the mental gymnastics have started today with rationalizing why we should take another milquetoast defenseman (I'm being very, very nice to Poolman) with craptastic AAV and term on his contract. I don't think Poolman would play over Ruh unless Ruh was hurt. That's how little I think of Poolman's ability. Total fixation has set in on Boeser.

Not sold on Boeser as already stated and I dont like Poolman either. I do like Boeser's shot volume but he definitely disappears on the scoresheet often. He would fit right in. Its a risky move

 

[Empoleon8771]

edit: Not surprised tbh on Empo's post. If I were the Canucks looking at how this young core's reacted to BB, I'd try and keep Boeser instead of making a disadvantaged deal too.

I think you're right but the problem is that Benning left the Canucks in a horrendous cap position. It's probably not going to be possible to keep their entire young core due to the horrid contracts that Benning either signed or traded for.

I think signing Boeser would probably mean Horvat would leave after next year. If I were the Canucks, I'd probably rather trade Boeser and allocate that money to Horvat.

 

[Ugene Magic]

I'm just going to say Poolman isn't the answer and it's just settling just to make it work.

The value of Kapanen and Pettersson has more value than what's given here. That much I'm 100% certain of. If it was that simple, then this would have already been pushed through.

If it even looks close to a duck, it's still a duck.

Let's not settle for once. While Boeser will make good strides to competing, Poolman doesn't. He is what he is at 28. If it wasn't possible to use both to make it work, make something work for Boeser and split the two and get what you need elsewhere with one of Petts/Kapanen. Otherwise... don't complicate things. Does Vancouver even need another top 4 L-D-man making 4.0? They have 2 making 7.0+

 

[MayorofWBS]

Indeed. Maybe Poolman+2nd to Anaheim for Manson? THAT would be best case scenario for us..

Jake-Sid-Rust
Heinen-Malkin-Boeser
McGinn-Carter-ERod
ZAR-Bleuger-Boyle

Dumo-Letang
Matheson-Marino
Freidman-Manson

That's a formidable lineup and sets us up well for the off season.

The only thing that could be throwing a wrench in this is Zucker's ETA on coming back. Double edge sword there. While the LTIRR space is a must, I'm not sure his first game back should be Game 1 of the playoffs.

Anaheim will get better value for Manson than that. Poolman's a blah defense that had no business ever getting a 4 year NHL contract. The gift of Jim Benning. Poolman's a negative asset with that term left on contract.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Does Vancouver even need another top 4 L-D-man making 4.0? They have 2 making 7.0+

No, but don't let the pesky concept of "need" blur JR's desire to get a player he wants

The Penguins didn't need more undersized puck movers or 2-way speedsters, yet JR kept acquiring them.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

I think that's pretty much what it boils down to for me. Losing a Petts, or a Marino, or a Kapanen isn't gonna change this team's chances at a Cup nearly as much as going into another playoffs with all its eggs in the GCR basket yet again.

What is frustrating about this fact is that this coach has painted this roster construction into a corner. If Rust could go with Geno, we wouldn't be having this conversation at all.

Imagine a world where Geno and Rust are a duo and due to chemistry or whatever magic, brings Kaps game to life on L2?

That Pens team would be a very difficult out

 

[66-30-33]

Anaheim will get better value for Manson than that. Poolman's a blah defense that had no business ever getting a 4 year NHL contract. The gift of Jim Benning. Poolman's a negative asset with that term left on contract.

Kapanen and a 2nd would probably get it done.

 

[Gurglesons]

I'm just going to say Poolman isn't the answer and it's just settling just to make it work.

The value of Kapanen and Pettersson has more value than what's given here. That much I'm 100% certain of. If it was that simple, then this would have already been pushed through.

If it even looks close to a duck, it's still a duck.

Let's not settle for once. While Boeser will make good strides to competing, Poolman doesn't. He is what he is at 28. If it wasn't possible to use both to make it work, make something work for Boeser and split the two and get what you need elsewhere with one of Petts/Kapanen. Otherwise... don't complicate things. Does Vancouver even need another top 4 L-D-man making 4.0? They have 2 making 7.0+

Poolman isn’t an answer. But right now we are a cap strapped team riding 4 million on the bench. Rather ride 2.5 mil on the bench.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

I'm just going to say Poolman isn't the answer and it's just settling just to make it work.

The value of Kapanen and Pettersson has more value than what's given here. That much I'm 100% certain of. If it was that simple, then this would have already been pushed through.

If it even looks close to a duck, it's still a duck.

Let's not settle for once. While Boeser will make good strides to competing, Poolman doesn't. He is what he is at 28. If it wasn't possible to use both to make it work, make something work for Boeser and split the two and get what you need elsewhere with one of Petts/Kapanen. Otherwise... don't complicate things. Does Vancouver even need another top 4 L-D-man making 4.0? They have 2 making 7.0+

I think you're missing the point.
No one really cares about Poolman or what he does/doesn't do once this Cup window is shut.
Because once that happens, we could ice 18 Poolmans for all I care

This is about acquiring Boeser. If he is the supposed panacea (and I have my withholdings) then you do everything you can to acquire him

 

[Gurglesons]

I think you're missing the point.
No one really cares about Poolman or what he does/doesn't do once this Cup window is shut.
Because once that happens, we could ice 18 Poolmans for all I care

This is about acquiring Boeser. If he is the supposed panacea (and I have my withholdings) then you do everything you can to acquire him

I’m not sure it is even about Boeser. Getting a mil and a half off the cap picture for Petts right now would be shrewd work.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

What is frustrating about this fact is that this coach has painted this roster construction into a corner. If Rust could go with Geno, we wouldn't be having this conversation at all.

Imagine a world where Geno and Rust are a duo and due to chemistry or whatever magic, brings Kaps game to life on L2?

That Pens team would be a very difficult out

Rust hasn't done anything of worth in the playoffs since 2017. I don't think he's an answer to our problems, because I think he's part of the problem itself.

We can shuffle things around, and I'm fine doing so, but we're still thin when it comes to actual threats to score. Sid, Jake, and Rust have all come up flat in the post season for the last several trips--both individually and as a line. Geno had 5pts last spring but outside of that heroic effort, he's been as bad as the other guys for years. Carter's depth scoring is great but you're still asking for more from your top guys. Blueger and all the other nobodies like Kap, Zucker, ZAR, E-Rod, etc. are nothingmancers. Outside of Letang, we've really got no consistent, substantial production from the blueline (I know, Matheson skates really well).

If we add, I hope we add someone with some real offensive punch to their game. If we don't add, I see us being out again in the 1st, maybe 2nd round, and I see it as basically an admission by the team that the era's over and they're just gonna let things fall apart naturally--a slow, boring end.

 

[SEALBound]

I think this is probably posturing from the Canucks to try and get more value in a potential trade, but interesting nonetheless.

I mean, I think from just a general semi-competent GM POV, that makes sense. You should always try to keep a guy like that. Why wouldn't you. Maybe his thoughts have changed on what he is willing to accept. That said, if the Canucks can't get a deal done and are willing to trade him, perhaps that means they couldn't get what they believed to be a reasonable deal done. Not sure what that would say about our ability to get a reasonable deal done...but it concerns me. Ultimately, I'm not sure if this information helps or hurts the Canucks.

If he's actually top 4 capable, he'd be a coup. The deal would be horrendously lopsided in our favour. Nobody would give a tinker's damn about Ruh. But so very few people other than you seem to think he is.

edit: Not surprised tbh on Empo's post. If I were the Canucks looking at how this young core's reacted to BB, I'd try and keep Boeser instead of making a disadvantaged deal too.

Oh for sure but that's the gamble. That was the gamble with nearly every dman we brought in to rehabilitate.

I have a sixth sense on these things. My only recent miss was Galchenyuk. I was nervous but I thought he'd do a lot better than he did. Most others, I'm pretty good at guessing whether or not they'd recoup. I do think he would play better here than in Vancouver. The question that would remain is, would that play deserve $2.5mil. Still don't know. But again, if the counter balance to that was sending out Petts and getting Boeser in here, then it makes sense still.

I think you're right but the problem is that Benning left the Canucks in a horrendous cap position. It's probably not going to be possible to keep their entire young core due to the horrid contracts that Benning either signed or traded for.

I think signing Boeser would probably mean Horvat would leave after next year. If I were the Canucks, I'd probably rather trade Boeser and allocate that money to Horvat.

I think they'd get a haul for Horvat. That would change the dynamics of the TDL quite a bit honestly. That said, they need a 2C so I can't see why they would want to do that.

Myers yes, then choose 2 of Miller, Boeser, and Garland. If you can come out of that with some space, picks, and younger prospects, it's a win.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

I’m not sure it is even about Boeser. Getting a mil and a half off the cap picture for Petts right now would be shrewd work.

I think we disagree slightly then. Because I could give a flying flip about the salary cap. This may be the last legit shot we have at a Cup.
Because next year the core will have another year of mileage on them. Hell Geno and Letang theoretically could not even be here next year.

So I'm pushing all my chips to the table even if it means next year I don't have a house to sleep in. Just my own approach. I understand others may not agree

 

[MayorofWBS]

Honestly, Boeser is a nice piece, but I think there are potential better fits.

Yeah, we need to be shopping around. I don't want to get into the JR approach of a single egg in one basket. I'd keep checking in with Vegas and others. Vegas might do something crazy. They can't be feeling too confident right now.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Rust hasn't done anything of worth in the playoffs since 2017. I don't think he's an answer to our problems, because I think he's part of the problem itself.

We can shuffle things around, and I'm fine doing so, but we're still thin when it comes to actual threats to score. Sid, Jake, and Rust have all come up flat in the post season for the last several trips--both individually and as a line. Geno had 5pts last spring but outside of that heroic effort, he's been as bad as the other guys for years. Carter's depth scoring is great but you're still asking for more from your top guys. Blueger and all the other nobodies like Kap, Zucker, ZAR, E-Rod, etc. are nothingmancers. Outside of Letang, we've really got no consistent, substantial production from the blueline (I know, Matheson skates really well).

If we add, I hope we add someone with some real offensive punch to their game. If we don't add, I see us being out again in the 1st, maybe 2nd round, and I see it as basically an admission by the team that the era's over and they're just gonna let things fall apart naturally--a slow, boring end.

I don't disagree, but I think the fact Sully hasn't changed his approach or process despite his big line going cold is a significant problem with this team. So maybe if Rust was with Geno he might have raised his own game. Novel concept for some coaches...

 

[Zirakzigil]

Dont care for Poolman, he was fine on the Jets, overpaid now.

Boeser and Schenn for Marino and Kap.

Or something bigger like:
Van - Petts
Pens - Myers 50%, Boeser or Garland
Seattle - Myers 50% retention, Kap, future considerations from Van (Myers to Seattle for futures, Myers at 50% to the Pens)
Would mean cap shenanigans this summer

Or a bigger big deal:
Van - Marino, Seattle 3rd
Pens - Giordano 50%, Boeser, Schenn,
Seattle - Giordano 50% retained, Petts, Kap, Pens 2nd

Pens completely revamp their defence, get a lot more physical on the back end and gain some cap flexibility for the summer. Gio gets a cup run in. Seattle gets a replacement on defence, another top 6 forward and upgrades their pick. Van gets the RH defenseman they want, gains some flexibility cap wise and another pick.

Deal would be Marino for Boeser, Schenn for Seattle 3rd, Gio 50% and Schenn for Petts, Kap and Pens 2nd.

Pens run:
Jake - Sid - Rust
Zucker - Geno - Boeser
McGinn - Carter - eRod
ZAR - Blue - Heinen

Dumo - Letang
Gio - Schenn
Math - Spearman

 

[Turin]

Poolman was an effective D for Winnipeg last year. He's not a stud or a guy who can anchor special teams, but right now neither is Pettersson.

he was not