Proposal: Trade Rumours/Proposals PART XXXXX

[Cosmix]

Legit question, would anyone be willing to trade Debrincat for a top 4 RHD and some prospect/picks deal, and then offer a pick or prospect for Garland? Garland is a very tenacious excellent 5on5 producer who always drives the net.

It should be a top 2 RD; not top 4 RD. Debrincat is a legit top line winger and proven scorer. WE do not need 2nd line D.

 

[DaveMatthew]

I think that they wont bother supplanting a player like Quick with Talbot. Quick is a HOF player and lead them to two cups. They are the same age, its a lateral move to a legacy player.

Vejmelka maybe? Demko maybe? Otherwise I dont see them making any moves.

If Ottawa made a deal with them I think it would be built around Roy and Debrincat.

Debrincat, Talbot, Holden/Brannstrom for Roy, Iafallo, 1st or something like that.

It's far more likely that the Kings make a small trade and move out a prospect for Talbot, to give them some insurance in net, than they make a huge blockbuster trade, that shakes up a roster that's 1 point off of the division lead, mid-season.

And if in the span of 9 months, Ottawa went from 7th OA pick > Alex Debrincat > Matt Roy and Alex Iafallo? Ooof. That'd be absolutely awful.

 

[bert]

It's far more likely that the Kings make a small trade and move out a prospect for Talbot, to give them some insurance in net, than they make a huge blockbuster trade, that shakes up a roster that's 1 point off of the division lead, mid-season.

And if in the span of 9 months, Ottawa went from 7th OA pick > Alex Debrincat > Matt Roy and Alex Iafallo? Ooof. That'd be absolutely awful.

Thats not what I said. They would be getting L.A's first.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

IF we are moving DeBrincat, gotta think we could get a great haul trade deadline. That includes a top 4 D man.

 

[DaveMatthew]

Thats not what I said. They would be getting L.A's first.

Still that would be an absolutely terrible progression, considering LA's first is going to be in the 20's.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

IF we are moving DeBrincat, gotta think we could get a great haul trade deadline. That includes a top 4 D man.

No one is giving up a proven top 4 d for an unsigned DBC

 

[Mark Stones Spleen]

IF we are moving DeBrincat, gotta think we could get a great haul trade deadline. That includes a top 4 D man.

No playoff team is trading a current top 4 RHD at the deadline.

 

[bert]

Still that would be an absolutely terrible progression, considering LA's first is going to be in the 20's.

Alex Iafallo is 29, has scored over 40 points once in his career (has never scored 20 goals), and makes $4M. We just traded Connor Brown because we didn't want to pay him $4M, and Nick Paul because we didn't want to pay him $3M.

Matt Roy is a good, but unremarkable, #4 defenseman who can play 18-19 minutes a night but is a UFA after next season.

Brutal.

Just because the sens made two stupid moves doesnt mean they were smart.

They traded 7th OA a 2nd and a 3rd for almost two years of Debrincat. They are flipping him for a first somewhere in the 20 range ( in a much better draft) a legit top 4 D man and a burner that can play in their top 9.

Discounting Roy and Iafallo here to try and sound smart is why I just have no respect for you. Could have been a discussion but your ego had to get in the way.

This team desperately needs a top 4 d man and they get one with some term. They dont get locked into a long term deal for Debrincat which could hinder future contracts and get some futures back.

Players like Roy are flipped for 1st all the time. Iafallo returns a second.

So lets see. 7th OA 2nd, 3rd vs 1st, 1st 2nd.

Only thing brutal here is your analysis.

 

[DaveMatthew]

They traded 7th OA a 2nd and a 3rd for almost two years of Debrincat. They are flipping him for a first somewhere in the 20 range ( in a much better draft) a legit top 4 D man and a burner that can play in their top 9.

Discounting Roy and Iafallo here to try and sound smart is why I just have no respect for you. Could have been a discussion but your ego had to get in the way.

This team desperately needs a top 4 d man and they get one with some term. They dont get locked into a long term deal for Debrincat which could hinder future contracts and get some futures back.

Players like Roy are flipped for 1st all the time. Iafallo returns a second.

So lets see. 7th OA 2nd, 3rd vs 1st, 1st 2nd.

Only thing brutal here is your analysis.

Huh? Almost two years of Debrincat? He's played 49 games as a Senator.

Iafallo is 29, has scored over 40 points once in his career (never 20 goals) and makes $4M a year. We just traded Connor Brown because we didn't want to pay him $4M, and Nick Paul because we didn't want to pay him $3M. We won't be a serious Cup contender for another 2-3 years. Why would we want Iafallo when he's 32?

Roy is a good player, no doubt. But he has no term. He's a UFA after next season. Same as Debrincat.

 

[Micklebot]

Idk, maybe I'm just not getting this. He's still on his ELC because his contract slid.

Cap friendly says

• For players whom are 20 or older, the year in which they play their first Professional Game (e.g. NHL, AHL, ECHL, KHL, European Leagues) is the year which is considered their first year towards the waiver exemption; however, the player must be under an NHL contract.

He played in those leagues, but not on an NHL contract given that capfriendly shows his contract as having slid.

As far as I understand players on an elc are exempt from waivers

Just because you're on an ELC doesn't mean you're waivers exempt, you get a set num of completed pro seasons, or number of NHL games, whichever comes first, so for example, Stützle is not waiver exempt despite still being on his ELC because he's played more than 150 games. We can't send him to Belleville without waiving him.


An entry level slide is more of an automatic extension rather than him not being considered under contract for the year slid. That's why a signing bonus doesn't slide, players get it in the first 3 years regardless of whether the contract slides, so Greig for example got a signing bonus for the last two years and this year, but won't get one next year.

The number of seasons a player is waiver exempt depends on their age when they sign, an extra year for 18 and 19 year olds coincides with the years that could in theory slide, which probably is why you assumed it was linked,but it counts as a completed season regardless of whether your contract slides or not

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Mtl: Erik Karlsson
SJ: Florida 1st 2023, Logan Mailloux, Josh Anderson

Eww, no. I want to be able to cheer for the guy not have to hate on him cuz he's on the Habs. Anyone but the Leafs and Habs please.

 

[HSF]

IF we are moving DeBrincat, gotta think we could get a great haul trade deadline. That includes a top 4 D man.

Or you know trade a b prospect and get a guy like Marino in the summer while keeping DBC

This is the worst time to be trading for help for next year.....don't believe what Dorion says

Just because the sens made two stupid moves doesnt mean they were smart.

They traded 7th OA a 2nd and a 3rd for almost two years of Debrincat. They are flipping him for a first somewhere in the 20 range ( in a much better draft) a legit top 4 D man and a burner that can play in their top 9.

Discounting Roy and Iafallo here to try and sound smart is why I just have no respect for you. Could have been a discussion but your ego had to get in the way.

This team desperately needs a top 4 d man and they get one with some term. They dont get locked into a long term deal for Debrincat which could hinder future contracts and get some futures back.

Players like Roy are flipped for 1st all the time. Iafallo returns a second.

So lets see. 7th OA 2nd, 3rd vs 1st, 1st 2nd.

Only thing brutal here is your analysis.

This is deadline pricing

Players like Roy also have gone for much less in the offseason.

 

[bert]

Or you know trade a b prospect and get a guy like Marino in the summer while keeping DBC

This is the worst time to be trading for help for next year.....don't believe what Dorion says


This is deadline pricing

Players like Roy also have gone for much less in the offseason.

Marino is an outlier he came off a terrible season show me another similar example. He returned Smith a former 1st rounder that was progressing. Roy is not having a terrible season.

Top 4 d men cost 1st round picks. What did you want for Zub if he wasn't going to sign?

That's not deadline pricing. Connor Brown just returned a 2nd in a down market and cap crunch.

 

[DaveMatthew]

Marino is an outlier he came off a terrible season show me another similar example. He returned Smith a former 1st rounder that was progressing. Roy is not having a terrible season.

Top 4 d men cost 1st round picks. What did you want for Zub if he wasn't going to sign?

That's not deadline pricing. Connor Brown just returned a 2nd in a down market and cap crunch.

Ryan Graves was traded for a 2nd and Mikhail Matsev (former 4th rounder) after playing 19:03/night for the Avs (4th in TOI amongst D).

Devon Toews was traded for two 2nds after playing 20:31/night for the Islanders (4th in TOI amongst D).

Brenden Dillon was traded for two 2nds after playing 18:57/night for the Capitals (4th in TOI amongst D).

Nate Schmidt was traded for a 3rd after playing 20:06/night for the Canucks (4th in TOI amongst D).

--

But Matt Roy, who's playing 18:27 a night for LA, 4th amongst their D, and is a year away from UFA, is 100% returning a 1st? I mean maybe, but it's no sure thing.

 

[L'Aveuglette]

I'd try to snag Demko from Vancouver if he's on the market. Could be a true #1 guy for us while our playoff window is wide open.

 

[Micklebot]

Ryan Graves was traded for a 2nd and Mikhail Matsev (former 4th rounder) after playing 19:03/night for the Avs (4th in TOI amongst D).

Devon Toews was traded for two 2nds after playing 20:31/night for the Islanders (4th in TOI amongst D).

Brenden Dillon was traded for two 2nds after playing 18:57/night for the Capitals (4th in TOI amongst D).

Nate Schmidt was traded for a 3rd after playing 20:06/night for the Canucks (4th in TOI amongst D).

--

But Matt Roy, who's playing 18:27 a night for LA, 4th amongst their D, and is a year away from UFA, is 100% returning a 1st? I mean maybe, but it's no sure thing.

We're any of those deadline deals? Just doesn't make a lot of sense for LA to move Roy unless it's an overpayment at this point,

Maybe in the offseason they take less due to cap pressures, which btw really threw off the market the last few years so not sure how relevant some of the prices durring the pandemic cap freeze will be going forward, but right now LA wants to win so a futures return will need to really sway them.

 

[DaveMatthew]

We're any of those deadline deals? Just doesn't make a lot of sense for LA to move Roy unless it's an overpayment at this point,

Maybe in the offseason they take less due to cap pressures, which btw really threw off the market the last few years so not sure how relevant some of the prices durring the pandemic cap freeze will be going forward, but right now LA wants to win so a futures return will need to really sway them.

Right, but it also doesn't make a lot of sense for Ottawa to acquire Roy right now, especially since it would require an overpayment, and he's not signed long-term.

Trading Debrincat + Holden + Brannstrom for Roy + Iafallo + LA's 1st, at the deadline, as was suggested by the poster? That'd be crazy.

 

[HSF]

We're any of those deadline deals? Just doesn't make a lot of sense for LA to move Roy unless it's an overpayment at this point,

Maybe in the offseason they take less due to cap pressures, which btw really threw off the market the last few years so not sure how relevant some of the prices durring the pandemic cap freeze will be going forward, but right now LA wants to win so a futures return will need to really sway them.

That the whole point to the post he was responding too

It doesn't make much sense for ottawa to overpay at this point when there are some defensemen available in the offseason

Trading DBC to get a crack at Roy seems wild to me

 

[Micklebot]

Right, but it also doesn't make a lot of sense for Ottawa to acquire Roy right now, especially since it would require an overpayment, and he's not signed long-term.

Trading Debrincat + Holden + Brannstrom for Roy + Iafallo + LA's 1st, at the deadline, as was suggested by the poster? That'd be crazy.

Yeah, I wouldn't do that. Drop DeBrincat and LAs 1st and we can start adding from there, though I'm not sure who's playing LD on the third pair if we move both Holden and Brannstrom.

Worth noting we can't extend Roy till next year so the deal can't be based on an extended value,

 

[Big Muddy]

Assuming that Roy is even available, got to think that there's around 25 teams interested in a RD like Roy. I don't see how a trade for Roy would be cheap.

As for Debrincat, if he gets past this season, he only has his one year Qualifying Offer remaining and he could walk to free agency. Would think teams need to speak to him and/or his agent to see if they can work an extension. I guess there would also be a market for him as a pure rental for the playoffs for a team with enough cap space wanting a deep run.

At any rate, he's not an inexpensive player with some term on his contract.

 

[Big Muddy]

We're any of those deadline deals? Just doesn't make a lot of sense for LA to move Roy unless it's an overpayment at this point,

Maybe in the offseason they take less due to cap pressures, which btw really threw off the market the last few years so not sure how relevant some of the prices durring the pandemic cap freeze will be going forward, but right now LA wants to win so a futures return will need to really sway them.

That's a point that I have made as well in the past. A lot of teams had cap constraints because COVID produced a flat cap. So, as that situation disappears, the trade market will change as fewer teams will be needing to move players because of cap issues.

 

[DaveMatthew]

Got to think that there's around 25 teams interested in a RD like Roy. I don't see how a trade for Roy would be cheap.

As for Debrincat, if he gets past this season, he only has his one year Qualifying Offer remaining and he could walk to free agency. Would think teams need to speak to him and/or his agent to see if they work an extension. I guess there would also be a market for him as a pure rental for the playoffs for a team wanting a deep run with enough cap space.

At any rate, he's not an inexpensive player with some term on his contract.

Sure, there'd be lots of teams interested in Roy. But you say that and then diminish the value of Debrincat, a 25-year-old two-time 40-goal scorer who, even in a down year, will come in at ~70 points? He's a much, much more valuable asset.

And Roy is a UFA at the same time as Debrincat, so he has the exact same "will he stay" concerns. How much are you trading for a 1-year rental of an 18 minute a night 2nd pairing defenseman? A 1st rounder? Maybe if you think he's the missing piece to your cup run. Not if you're going to miss the playoffs by 10 points.

While RDs are a rarer commodity, people on this board definitely have begun overstating their market value. Just last year, Josh Manson was traded at the deadline for a 2nd rounder and an average prospect, and then extended at a reasonable rate.

Remember when some thought Zub would need $5.5M+ on an extension because "he's a RD"?

That's a point that I have made as well in the past. A lot of teams had cap constraints because COVID produced a flat cap. So, as that situation disappears, the trade market will change as fewer teams will be needing to move players because of cap issues.

This upcoming summer, when we'll be in the market for a D, the cap squeeze teams will be facing will be as big, if not bigger, than in previous seasons.

It probably begins to let up after next season, but the cap is only going up $1M next year. Not much relief.

 

[Big Muddy]

Sure, there'd be lots of teams interested in Roy. But you say that and then diminish the value of Debrincat, a 25-year-old two-time 40-goal scorer who, even in a down year, will come in at ~70 points?

What I specifically said was that there are 2 scenarios or markets for Debrincat. Contracts matter, so when I take the contract into consideration, I see 2 markets for him. That's not as wide open a situation or market as a lower cost player with term. That's not diminishing the player, that just factoring in the contract and seeing what kind of teams meet a certain profile.

There's 12 teams that have a projected cap space of $0 at the end of the year. TBH, I don't know how that compares to the COVID years.

But, I generally agree that once the NHL finally opens up the cap situation (implements larger increases), the trade market situation will change. Note the words in the sentence "as that situation disappears" that I used to convey this point.

If we assume we have three requirements next year (a RD, a goalie, and re-sign Debrincat), let's see how many of those things we get done. We may have a new owner & GM, so that could be a factor. But, our cap situation isn't exactly without limits either.

 

[Micklebot]

This upcoming summer, when we'll be in the market for a D, the cap squeeze teams will be facing will be as big, if not bigger, than in previous seasons.

It probably begins to let up after next season, but the cap is only going up $1M next year. Not much relief

A bit of an aside, but I'm not convinced they won't come to a compromise between PA and owners and jack up the cap to smooth out the increase between this year and next.

 

[L'Aveuglette]

If we have the chance to acquire a top-4 RD at any point between now and next season for a relatively good price(which means keeping the core intact), we have to pounce. Should be clear to everyone by now that being in the off-season means very little when it comes to finding one of these rare animals.