Proposal: Trade Rumours/Proposals PART XXXXX

[Sens of Anarchy]

Could add Sieloff, I think he only played one game though.

Sieloff ,, I guess he should be on the list. His claim to fame in Ottawa was not so great.

 

[Micklebot]

This is such a shitty and disingenuous argument. How many of these were actually brought in to be a top 4 defenseman and were not a cap dump? Zero? Oh....

Also, why don't you list what we gave up (and also received) in order to acquire these defensemen?

Phaneuf was a cap dump and served well on the second pair in 2017
Kevin was a throw-in in the Lazar trade which also sent an AHL scrub to Calgary, was never meant to be more than a #8
DeMelo was a throw-in (he was just signed as a UFA) in the Karlsson trade that panned out very well, flipped him for a 3rd
Goloubef literal AHL for AHL player trade (we traded Paul Caery, whoever tf that is)
Brannstrom is a polarizing player. I stay out of that debate. I think he's somewhere between the two extremes.
Zaitsev was cap dump. We got solid years out of Brown. Zaitsev still showed he's a serviceable bottom pair when he returned from the AHL
Reilly was decent here, only cost us a 5th. We then flipped him for a 3rd.
J. Brown was never meant to be more than a depth guy. Cost us a 4th, got a 5th
Gudbranson was fine and gave us a good pro / big body presence during Norris/Stutzle rookie season. Only cost us a 5th, and got a 7th back.
Coburn was cap dump that literally gave us a 2th round pick, a far better asset than any we gave away on the 4 players listed above this.
Holden was a great move, we managed to dump Dadonov and even gained a 3rd round pick.
Hamonic only cost us a 3rd and has been a warrior for us this season. Absolutely no issue there.

The vast majority of these were bargain bin hole plugs that cost us almost nothing through the depths of the rebuild.

Also, I find it utterly ridiculous that Brannstrom is on this "pro scouting" list when he was acquired at 19yrs old, but you deliberately exclude Artem Zub who was acquired at 25. It's pretty clear you have your agenda and narrative that you want to keep pushing.

We traded a guy we were playing in our top four for Zaitsev, DJ convinced him to waive, and immediately played him in our top 4, so as much as you want to call him a cap dump, he was brought in to be in our top 4. Same is true for Phaneuf, we wanted him for our top 4. The fact that they were available because they had bad salaries doesn't change that we targeted them as top 4 guys.

Gudbranson, again, was brought in for the top 4, as was Hamonic. Dumpster diving, sure, but that's what we target.

Brannstrom was definitely targetted to be in our top 4 long term, not right away mind you.

At the end of the day, we've been looking for top 4 D pretty much year after year, and if we aren't willing to target anybody but salary dumps or who guys who don't cost more than a third then that's the type of list we'll get, and the team will perpetually be looking to add a top 4 D.

Edit: last time we traded for decent dmen was probably Methot and prior to that Kuba. I guess DeMelo might count.

 

[Wallet Inspector]

Jesus. I can't believe the team is actually showing interest in acquiring Dumba. If our scouts have watched him play live this and last season and honestly believe he'd be useful on this team with this coach, there needs to be a serious house cleaning when new ownership is finalized.

Has Dumba really declined that much?

 

[Ice-Tray]

If we gave up Batherson to make room for Dumba, I’d seriously consider packing it in…lol

Only as a Sens fan I hope!!!

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

So you want to trade for a defenseman huh?
Apparently this is a list of Defensemen traded for by the Ottawa Senators since 2014 which coincides with Jim Clarke as director of Professional scouting.



I have not vetted but could not think of any others.. I know there have been UFAs acquired not on this list.
Needless to say its not a flattering list.

I've always felt like you can sort of trace the need to rebuild back to that short term salary for long term salary Phaneuf deal at the top. Got a nice run out of it but he turned in to a potato right after when we needed him and lost Methot from the NMC. Probably doesn't matter and they nuke it at UFA's fork in the road either way with Melynk in tow and Karlsson/Methot injuries. I think Dorion would have served himself and the team better by not getting so complex with long term albatross contracts coming back. Made the same mistake later with the Zaitsev/Brown deal even though Brown contributed in the interim like Phaneuf. Duchene deal was overcomplicated and in the same vein too, just without the longer term salary consequences. I hope we don't see the same again.

Edit: looks like Ron Hainsey is missing from that list.

 

[bert]

We traded a guy we were playing in our top four for Zaitsev, DJ convinced him to waive, and immediately played him in our top 4, so as much as you want to call him a cap dump, he was brought in to be in our top 4. Same is true for Phaneuf, we wanted him for our top 4. The fact that they were available because they had bad salaries doesn't change that we targeted them as top 4 guys.

Gudbranson, again, was brought in for the top 4, as was Hamonic. Dumpster diving, sure, but that's what we target.

Brannstrom was definitely targetted to be in our top 4 long term, not right away mind you.

At the end of the day, we've been looking for top 4 D pretty much year after year, and if we aren't willing to target anybody but salary dumps or who guys who don't cost more than a third then that's the type of list we'll get, and the team will perpetually be looking to add a top 4 D.

Edit: last time we traded for decent dmen was probably Methot and prior to that Kuba. I guess DeMelo might count.

I'd say Demelo definitely counts. According to Winnipeg fans he is their second best d man. What an unbelievable blunder by Dorion. Gets thrown into a deal plays great here trades him for a 3rd round pick.

Can't wait for new ownership and a new GM.

Has Dumba really declined that much?

Too big and physical for said poster. There is no circumstance given where the sens are and their salary structure they should be trading for him though. If you really like him try to sign him in the offseason when you can get him for free.

 

[bicboi64]

I kinda wish we kept Phaneuf. He would've helped with a rebuild. He'd be playing heavy minutes, keeping Ceci from being turned into a shut down guy, and we barely got any "savings" by moving him. He was a pylon, but serviceable enough for a rebuilding team.

Ah well, in the year he retired, we ended up drafting Brady who can arguably be #1 in that draft (although I think Dahlin is going to be an absolute stud)

 

[Wondercarrot]

Too big and physical for said poster. There is no circumstance given where the sens are and their salary structure they should be trading for him though. If you really like him try to sign him in the offseason when you can get him for free.

Dumba?
He’s 6’ even and 180 lbs.

Paraphrasing from the Minny board, he’s not very physical anymore given his injuries, will try to catch guys in bad spots to mail them, but ends up taking a lot of bad penalties.

 

[Micklebot]

I'd say Demelo definitely counts. According to Winnipeg fans he is their second best d man. What an unbelievable blunder by Dorion. Gets thrown into a deal plays great here trades him for a 3rd round pick.

Can't wait for new ownership and a new GM.


Too big and physical for said poster. There is no circumstance given where the sens are and their salary structure they should be trading for him though. If you really like him try to sign him in the offseason when you can get him for free.

I would have kept DeMelo around, but they clearly wanted to get more physical on the backend when they let him go.

It's weird because DeMelo has played up and down the line both here and Winnipeg, played with Chabot on our top pair one year, and Boro on the third pair the next. Plays with Stanley on the third in Winnipeg one year and Morrisey another.

I'd be ok with moving on from DeMelo if we actually went out and upgraded on him, but instead we get guys like Gudbranson, Zaitsev and Hamonic.

 

[bert]

I would have kept DeMelo around, but they clearly wanted to get more physical on the backend when they let him go.

It's weird because DeMelo has played up and down the line both here and Winnipeg, played with Chabot on our top pair one year, and Boro on the third pair the next. Plays with Stanley on the third in Winnipeg one year and Morrisey another.

I'd be ok with moving on from DeMelo if we actually went out and upgraded on him, but instead we get guys like Gudbranson, Zaitsev and Hamonic.

Extremely high hockey IQ and a good stick go a long way. These are traits Dorion has not shown any ability to evaluate. Nick Paul is similar as a forward.

This team doesnt have the luxury of moving on from any good players whether they fit the perfect mold or not. Thats been the real issue throughout all of this. They havent retained anyone that played well throughout the rebuild process. Which to me has been the biggest blunder management has made.

How much better would this team be right now if they had kept Dulair, Paul, C Brown, Demelo and Gustavsson over Joseph, Zaitsev, Motte, Watson and Talbot. They would probably be a playoff team. (yes the salaries are very close)

Tkachuk Norris Batherson
Debrincat Stutzle Giroux
Paul Pinto Duclair
Kelly Kastelic Brown
Gambrell

Zub Sanderson
Chabot Demelo
Holden Hamonic
Brannstrom JBD

Forsberg
Gustavsson

Thats a roster that can sustain injuries.

I honestly dont mind Hamonic but not in the role he has been cast into. Chabot has shown he isnt the easiest player to play with. I honestly think Zub has looked his worst with Chabot then any other partner.

JBD seems to play a similar game as Demelo. I actually think the recent game that JBD played with Chabot was Chabots best of the season. I find it shockingly strange they havent gone back to it nor have they tried Zub with Sanderson. What do they have to lose now, they are so far back with so many teams to pass. Why not just give it a go.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I would have kept DeMelo around, but they clearly wanted to get more physical on the backend when they let him go.

It's weird because DeMelo has played up and down the line both here and Winnipeg, played with Chabot on our top pair one year, and Boro on the third pair the next. Plays with Stanley on the third in Winnipeg one year and Morrisey another.

I'd be ok with moving on from DeMelo if we actually went out and upgraded on him, but instead we get guys like Gudbranson, Zaitsev and Hamonic.

I lobbied for him to be dealt over signing a long term contract at the time, but I also assumed we'd be turning the corner sooner at the time and the contract could get in the way. In hindsight, he was an ideal bridge d man and surely would have been better than most of what else was sent over the boards. We'd have been better off planning to re-sign Demelo and foregoing the whole Zaitsev deal imo, at least in hindsight with Brown being shipped off relatively cheap so soon.

 

[Big Muddy]

There is no circumstance given where the sens are and their salary structure that they should be trading for him though. If you really like him try to sign him in the offseason when you can get him for free.

Yes, agreed. Acquiring Dumba now makes no sense. This season is toast. If he's somehow of interest, just wait until he hits free agency. Yes, he's a RD, but hopefully we find something better.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Acquiring Dumba now makes no sense. This season is toast. If he's somehow of interest, just wait until he hits free agency. Yes, he's a RD, but hopefully we find something better.

It makes no sense at all. I have to assume the rumor is a pile of nonsense because it really is a nonsensical idea unless the cost is some late round pick or nothing prospect, which surely isn't the case.

 

[Que]

I’m assuming the Dumba rumours are completely fabricated as the Sens are after a different D-man but are trying to get an additional piece of leverage.

 

[bashbros32]

I’m assuming the Dumba rumours are completely fabricated as the Sens are after a different D-man but are trying to get an additional piece of leverage.

I really hope the sens aren't really in on anybody during the season... with Norris, Joseph and Motte "not close," our supremely inconsistent goaltending and general lethargy from some of our best players defensively... the season is quickly turning into a bust, and I would REALLY rather not make an impulse move in the hopes of making a futile run at the playoffs, where in all likelihood we would be bounced quickly.

as much as I like Talbot, I really really wonder what Dorion was thinking getting rid of our most developed goaltending prospect for a 35 year old... especially when the core of this team is u26... like... we set back our core starting goalie development by a couple years with that move... I (even before Gus put up the numbers he is doing in MIN) would have MUCH rather ran with Forsberg-Gustavsson this year, ESPECIALLY if all we were gonna do to address the D was plug in Sanderson and pray that one of Thomson-JBD were ready for full time minutes...

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

I honestly feel like we could get through this season with what he have on D, if the right coach was in place.

Our D is horrible lol. Most of their issues are so far from "systemic".

Chabot (offensively), Sanderson (defensively), and Zub (defensively) are the only guys who move the needle whatsoever. We don't have a single, true "two-way" D (Sanderson is well on his way). And our other D, not only are they just kinda there for the most part (at best), but they also make huge, glaring mistakes way too frequently. This isn't system, this is inability to think and/or play the game at the NHL level.

Also, we are clearly "getting through" the season. We will likely finish somewhere around .500 while having a really terrible D and really terrible bottom 6.

 

[Masked]

Our D is horrible lol. Most of their issues are so far from "systemic".

Have you watched this team in its own zone? It's an unstructured gong show back there at even strength. There are NHL veterans who can't figure out what system they're running.

It's a lot easier to protect subpar D men with a structure.

Assen na yo!

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Oh no we’re going to trade like Sokolov and a second for OEL aren’t we

 

[Micklebot]

Coming in hot did a list of RHD targets in their latest,

1. Jensen,
2. Murray Murphy
3. Severson
4. Cernak
5. Andersen

 

[Cosmix]

Are those UFAs?

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

Coming in hot did a list of RHD targets in their latest,

1. Jensen,
2. Murphy
3. Severson
4. Cernak
5. Andersen

Cernak and Anderson seem like pipe dreams, especially Cernak.

Murphy would be a good add. I've had him earmarked for years at this point.

Jensen and Severson would be good adds, but only if we can find a way to keep them beyond this year... and that seems like a tall order.

Are those UFAs?

First three are impending UFAs, Cernak is signed longterm and Anderson is an impending RFA.

 

[Micklebot]

Are those UFAs?

Jensen and Severson are, cernak and Andersson are not, 2 should be Murphy, typo on my part, also signed

 

[Cosmix]

I kinda wish we kept Phaneuf. He would've helped with a rebuild. He'd be playing heavy minutes, keeping Ceci from being turned into a shut down guy, and we barely got any "savings" by moving him. He was a pylon, but serviceable enough for a rebuilding team.

Ah well, in the year he retired, we ended up drafting Brady who can arguably be #1 in that draft (although I think Dahlin is going to be an absolute stud)

Phaneuf was virtually done when we acquired him.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

Jensen and Severson are, cernak and Andersson are not, 2 should be Murphy, typo on my part, also signed

That makes way more sense, I should have guessed.

 

[Micklebot]

Cernak and Anderson seem like pipe dreams, especially Cernak.

With Andersson you hope the flame out in the playoffs due to a scoring drought and are looking for a big move, then hope they like DeBrincat and try to build around that, but yeah it's a bit of a pipedream.