Proposal: Trade Rumours/Proposals PART XXXXX

[UglyPuckling]

I'm fine filling in the bottom 6 with guys like Greig, Sokolov, Crookshank etc... but we'd be extremely lucky to re-sign Zub for only 4.5M, add a RD for 3.15M and get away with JBD/Thomson penciled into the bottom pair for the whole year.

Not to mention goaltending could be a disaster. I would want a 1B starter with Forsberg at least. Sogaard looks promising but he has a grand total of 50 games played at the AHL level and definitely could use more seasoning.

If we could dump Joseph's contract it would provide some additional flexibility, but I don't see any team agreeing to pay 3M for a mediocre 3rd liner.

Perhaps people are not understanding what my objective is?

Here are the things that need to be clarified:

• I'm not saying this is a good roster, or that this is what the Senators should do.
• I am not recommending that certain players should fill certain slots. So for example, I'm not saying that using Sogaard is the way to go or would do a good job as the 1b goalie.
• I am not trying to say that a specific player will sign for "x" dollars. To give an example, I'm not saying that Zub will sign for $4.5 m.

I am merely providing a "model" (simulation) that says if the team has a $83.5 m budget, here is one way (a model) of how the numbers could be made to work.

So, if you want to give me the numbers and/or players you want in there, I can build a "model" quickly to show what the total cap would be.

Maybe I should be using the word "simulation" versus "model" to make it clearer what the objective is?

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Last few sales:

Alex Meruelo bought the Coyotes at the end of July 2019. John Chayka remained as GM for one season after the sale (he had been there for 3 years before the sale).

Tom Dundon bought the Hurricanes in January 2018. Ron Francis was fired 3 months later, at the end of the season (he had been there for 4 years before the sale).

John Ledecky and Scott Malkin bought the Islanders in July 2016. Garth Snow remained as GM for two more seasons after the sale (he had been there 10 years before the sale!).

Vincent Viola bought the Panthers at the end of September 2013. Dale Tallon remained as GM for another 3 seasons after the sale (had been there for 3 seasons before the sale).

Geoff Molson bought the Canadiens in December 2009. Bob Gainey "resigned" as GM 2 months later.

So it depends.

Interesting. I guess it's like I thought, they might get a little runway to convince the new owner, but not much life left in em.

 

[Ice-Tray]

The new owners won't close on the team midseason. It's likely to be in May or June. Hopefully for our sake, before the draft.

At that point, it's almost a certainty that Dorion (and subsequently the coaching staff) will be relieved, barring a miraculous turnaround to this season and a playoff berth. Even then it's a long shot. "Maybe they'll keep Dorion" is the same as "Maybe Melnyk's daughters will keep the team". The latter was never going to happen. Neither will the former.

It's becoming obvious that Alfredsson will be involved with the organization in the future, regardless of who is the winning group. That's all that needs to be known to logically see where this is going in regard to Dorion.

Besides, the first goal of new ownership will be to get people to believe that "things will be different now" so they buy season tickets. That'll be impossible if Dorion and DJ are still the ones getting in front of the microphone.

Well, good luck with all of that! Sounds rather self serving for a small angry (but loud) segment of the fanbase but whatever.

Still doesn’t affect the signing of DBC, which is everyone’s best interests.

 

[UglyPuckling]

Sogaard is not ready to back up next year. Add at least another 600K to the backup position.

Please refer to post # 726. I built a simulation or a model roster with salaries that total $83.5 m. Hopefully it becomes clearer when you read # 726. I'm not recommending that specific players play specific slots in the roster.

 

[DaveMatthew]

Well, good luck with all of that! Sounds rather self serving for a small angry (but loud) segment of the fanbase but whatever.

Still doesn’t affect the signing of DBC, which is everyone’s best interests.

Well that is very debatable. Committing $8M+ to a 2nd line LWer when you already have significant money invested in your top 6 and have a defense like yours can easily be argued to be the wrong decision.

Especially considering we're likely to have a top-12 pick, and if you look at draft rankings, that's likely to land us another forward.

And the majority of the fanbase does not care whether Dorion stays or goes. They don't care about his plan, or whether he's loyal, or whether there's a good vibe in the dressing room.

They just want the team to win when they buy tickets and want the chance to watch playoff games. Yet again this season, that probably won't be the case. That's what new ownership will make their decision based on, not the desires of a small angry (but loud) segment of the fanbase.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Well that is very debatable. Committing $8M+ to a 2nd line LWer when you already have significant money invested in your top 6 and have a defense like yours can easily be argued to be the wrong decision.

Maybe, but the cap is going up, and 8 million long term for a star is already looking like a bargain.

We already have room in a tight cap year, which leaves us with upgrading depth as the cap rises through our window.

We don’t need a star defencemen, we need partners for our star defencemen.

Giving up a young 40 goal winger who plays hard in all three zones and can play make would be a mistake if it’s up to us.

 

[aragorn]

They relish it because they know they are going up against an old, slow d-man who they have a good chance to walk. what nhler wouldn't want that?

Nonsense. Most NHLers would rather go up against small & soft Brannstrom than 6'2'', 205 lb Hamonic who is not shy at all to drop the gloves. And Brannstrom isn't even that fast a skater. he's exactly the kind of defencemen every coach will target in the playoffs as Ottawa's weakest link on defence & the easiest to take the puck from. I think they do that now which is why he is so often overpowered in his own zone. What Ottawa needs is a younger & more mobile version of Hamonic & hopefully Kleven could be that guy.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Perhaps people are not understanding what my objective is?

Here are the things that need to be clarified:

• I'm not saying this is a good roster, or that this is what the Senators should do.
• I am not recommending that certain players should fill certain slots. So for example, I'm not saying that using Sogaard is the way to go or would do a good job as the 1b goalie.
• I am not trying to say that a specific player will sign for "x" dollars. To give an example, I'm not saying that Zub will sign for $4.5 m.

I am merely providing a "model" (simulation) that says if the team has a $83.5 m budget, here is one way (a model) of how the numbers could be made to work.

So, if you want to give the numbers and/or players you want in there, I can build a "model" quickly to show what the total cap would be.

Maybe I should be using the word "simulation" versus "model" to make it clearer what the objective is?

I'm aware of all that.

I'm just pointing out the flaws in that roster, which is being suggested as the best course of action by those who think we should re-sign DeBrincat.

People say we have the money to re-sign DeBrincat and Zub, but ignore what happens to the rest of the roster if we do somehow manage to re-sign both.

 

[DaveMatthew]

Maybe, but the cap is going up, and 8 million long term for a star is already looking like a bargain.

We already have room in a tight cap year, which leaves us with upgrading depth as the cap rises through our window.

We don’t need a star defencemen, we need partners for our star defencemen.

Giving up a young 40 goal winger who plays hard in all three zones and can play make would be a mistake if it’s up to us.

Those partners will be $4-5M each (i.e. Zub + someone else), and Sanderson will be in line for $8M+ after next season.

Giving up is not the right term, since you'd get something in return. Hopefully something that provides value at a lower cost. Unless of course, we walk Debrincat to UFA and he leaves for nothing, which should not be done under any circumstance.

 

[UglyPuckling]

Here's another simulation (model) with:

• Debrincat at his $9.0 m QO.
• Pinto on a bridge.
• An unspecified RD at $3 m.
• An unspecified 1b goalie at $2 m.

The total AAV is over cap (if at $83.5 m) at $84,699,047.

This model incorporates the feedback that I got recently from 2 posters.

 

[Wallet Inspector]

Fooling around with Capfriendly again.

This is assuming we can pay to dump Zaitsev.

 

[UglyPuckling]

I'm aware of all that.

I'm just pointing out the flaws in that roster, which is being suggested as the best course of action by those who think we should re-sign DeBrincat.

People say we have the money to re-sign DeBrincat and Zub, but ignore what happens to the rest of the roster if we do somehow manage to re-sign both.

OK, cool.

Got it now.

 

[UglyPuckling]

Fooling around with Capfriendly again.

View attachment 621614

This is assuming we can pay to dump Zaitsev.

Your kind of going in the same direction as I have done with my spreadsheet models.

You have to find low cost players to fill the 4th forward line, the bottom pair, and a really inexpensive goalie.

You've also got Debrincat at $8 m. I'm not inclined to say whether he would or would not sign at that number. I'm just pointing out that its an important assumption needed to make the numbers work.

I'll assume that given that is CapFriendly the retain salary and buy out numbers have been included.

I also assumed that Zaitsev can be dumped with no cap implications as well (buy out, cap dump salary coming back, whatever).

 

[bert]

They gotta go get some more depth up front. Someone that can skate with Tkachuk and Giroux. Not looking for a world beater but that line is too slow with Brassard.

Either way they gotta do better than Lucchini and Chartier. They are not NHL players.

 

[DaveMatthew]

They gotta go get some more depth up front. Someone that can skate with Tkachuk and Giroux. Not looking for a world beater but that line is too slow with Brassard.

Either way they gotta do better than Lucchini and Chartier. They are not NHL players.

The market for a RD is non-existent, and while you could upgrade the third pairing LD, Brannstrom/Holden are probably fine.

Depth up front should be a top priority in the next couple of weeks, assuming Dorion is able to make trades.

I think we can assume a few teams are already sellers:

Columbus: Nyquist is an upcoming UFA, but probably costs too much
Arizona: Ritchie and Bjugstad could be had, but not clear upgrades
Chicago: Domi or Athanasiou
San Jose: No one really, except for Bonino
Anaheim: Derek Grant, but he's out with an injury right now

Domi would be a good fit. Can play 2C until Norris is out then slide over to 3LW and push Motte down. He was effective on Carolina's 3rd line after the deadline last year.

 

[bert]

The market for a RD is non-existent, and while you could upgrade the third pairing LD, Brannstrom/Holden are probably fine.

Depth up front should be a top priority in the next couple of weeks, assuming Dorion is able to make trades.

I think we can assume a few teams are already sellers:

Columbus: Nyquist is an upcoming UFA, but probably costs too much
Arizona: Ritchie and Bjugstad could be had, but not clear upgrades
Chicago: Domi or Athanasiou
San Jose: No one really, except for Bonino
Anaheim: Derek Grant, but he's out with an injury right now

Domi would be a good fit. Can play 2C until Norris is out then slide over to 3LW and push Motte down. He was effective on Carolina's 3rd line after the deadline last year.

Domi seems like someone that could work. Even if a team throws someone on waivers they're likelh an upgrade on what they've got. Hopefully they call up someone else than Chartier and Lucchini.

 

[Big Muddy]

Fooling around with Capfriendly again.

View attachment 621614

This is assuming we can pay to dump Zaitsev.

Can JBD get paid less next year?

 

[bicboi64]

As much as we could use another centre, I think targeting a player like Puljujarvi would be a good move for this year and next. He's an upgrade over Motte on the third line. Could be a low cost trade that pays dividends for us.

If we want to acquire another centre, I'd like to go after someone like Morgan Frost or Morgan Geekie. Philly is trying to move Frost, and Seattle has a lot of centre depth. These guys aren't going to push the needle, but they might be better than Brassard and give us some depth options for next year, and most importantly, will be low cost.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Man, how toxic is this guy that he had to sign with a bottom 3 team in the Swiss National League just to play "professional" hockey this year? Ooooof. Guy might never play in the NHL ever again.

Toxic Post.
Swiss League is a good place for him to land at this stage of the season. Lots of NHL players have played there.

“ ... the player, who fully cooperated with authorities during the investigations carried out by the London Police, the NHL, HC ... believes that there is no (reason) not to assert the presumption of innocence against him.”

If The parties with all the knowledge of the investigation can say there is no element for them not to assert the presumption of innocence against him... why can't you. It seems to me you are the one being toxic here. Just imagine if he had absolutely nothing to do with any sexual assault allegations .. and you call him toxic because you presume guilt. That is not the way things work in this country.. and we can all be very thankful for that.

Bettman says the investigation is in the home stretch but still continuing. I think its a real positive for Formenton for this group responsible for the investigation to publicly state there is no reason not to presume his innocence at this stage.

 

[Big Muddy]

Fooling around with Capfriendly again.

View attachment 621614

This is assuming we can pay to dump Zaitsev.

Can JBD get paid less next year?

On the Mayfield idea, my guess is that if Mayfield is willing to sign for $3 m, he will remain with the Islanders. It was an idea that was also echoed by a few Islander fans on their board.

The other thing is that Mayfield seems to have an aura in here to some degree. I'm wondering if some are thinking they will get something close to a Zub-like player, but just a little bigger, tougher and younger? Some of the Islander fans were calling him more of a 2nd/3rd pair tweener. So, he could closer to a Hamonic versus a Zub.

Overall though I'd think we'd need to be a little lucky to get a good 2nd pair defender at $3m. Also, as mentioned above, given that JBD was paid $925k this year, I'm wondering if he can get paid less ($800 k) next year (i.e. CBA rules)?

With these adjustments in mind, that's looking more like a $84/85 m roster = my best guess.

 

[senswon]

Toxic Post.
Swiss League is a good place for him to land at this stage of the season. Lots of NHL players have played there.

“ ... the player, who fully cooperated with authorities during the investigations carried out by the London Police, the NHL, HC ... believes that there is no (reason) not to assert the presumption of innocence against him.”

If The parties with all the knowledge of the investigation can say there is no element for them not to assert the presumption of innocence against him... why can't you. It seems to me you are the one being toxic here. Just imagine if he had absolutely nothing to do with any sexual assault allegations .. and you call him toxic because you presume guilt. That is not the way things work in this country.. and we can all be very thankful for that.

Bettman says the investigation is in the home stretch but still continuing. I think its a real positive for Formenton for this group responsible for the investigation to publicly state there is no reason not to presume his innocence at this stage.

If he is exonerated, does he then resign with ottawa or do we still look to trade him? He was a pretty effective player for us last year

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

If he is exonerated, does he then resign with ottawa or do we still look to trade him? He was a pretty effective player for us last year

Based on what is said in that article .. I think they should have signed him this year.. but I know that goes against the grain.
I hope they sign him if exonerated.

 

[BankStreetParade]

Toxic Post.
Swiss League is a good place for him to land at this stage of the season. Lots of NHL players have played there.

“ ... the player, who fully cooperated with authorities during the investigations carried out by the London Police, the NHL, HC ... believes that there is no (reason) not to assert the presumption of innocence against him.”

If The parties with all the knowledge of the investigation can say there is no element for them not to assert the presumption of innocence against him... why can't you. It seems to me you are the one being toxic here. Just imagine if he had absolutely nothing to do with any sexual assault allegations .. and you call him toxic because you presume guilt. That is not the way things work in this country.. and we can all be very thankful for that.

Bettman says the investigation is in the home stretch but still continuing. I think its a real positive for Formenton for this group responsible for the investigation to publicly state there is no reason not to presume his innocence at this stage.

You left out this part:

However, Ambri-Piotta has the option to cancel the contract, pending further developments.

“Should the new investigation by the Canadian police reveal elements that are currently unknown, the club and the player have reserved the right to re-evaluate their contractual relationship.”

Presumption of innocence and having a toxic brand are mutually exclusive concepts.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

You left out this part:

Presumption of innocence and having a toxic brand are mutually exclusive concepts.

Its a toxic brand only if you presume guilt.

Sure the investigation is on going but they have to have a pretty good idea to say there is nothing to not presume his innocence... Are you hanging your presumption of guilt on the fact they have not completed their investigation?

 

[Micklebot]

If he is exonerated, does he then resign with ottawa or do we still look to trade him? He was a pretty effective player for us last year

I might still trade him if we can get decent value back, ideally a RHD is what we need, if he can be a piece used to land us that, great. I'd move Joseph first but you got to give to get.