Proposal: Trade Rumours/Proposals PART XXXXX

[The Devilish Buffoon]

Girard is far from ideal in some ways, highly ideal in others.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

Off-season proposal:

To Carolina:
Debrincat
JBD/Thomson/Brannstrom

To Ottawa:
Pesce (extended for 5-7yrs, 5.25-6m)
Rees

Who says no?

 

[GCK]

Girard is far from ideal in some ways, highly ideal in others.

Girard would definitely be an upgrade on what we have now, even playing on his offside. I don’t think he’s the type of player we want once we are a contender. To me he is the prototypical “regular season” player. I’d aim for a better fit.

Off-season proposal:

To Carolina:
Debrincat
JBD/Thomson/Brannstrom

To Ottawa:
Pesce (extended for 5-7yrs, 5.25-6m)
Rees

Who says no?

If both Pesce and Debrincat came with extensions I could see a 1 for 1, especially if Carolina is bounced due to lack of scoring.

Debrincat - Aho - Svechnikov could be really dynamic.

 

[Cosmix]

Prime Chara was a far more valuable player to winning than prime Karlsson and that’s not a shot at Karlsson.

I would like both Chara and Karlsson on the team. They bring different skills; both are valuable.

 

[GCK]

I would like both Chara and Karlsson on the team. They bring different skills; both are valuable.

Absolutely. If I could only have 1 for a playoff run I’ll easily take prime Chara over prime Karlsson. What a D it would be to have both. Both are 1st ballot HoFers.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

Girard would definitely be an upgrade on what we have now, even playing on his offside. I don’t think he’s the type of player we want once we are a contender. To me he is the prototypical “regular season” player. I’d aim for a better fit.


If both Pesce and Debrincat came with extensions I could see a 1 for 1, especially if Carolina is bounced due to lack of scoring.

Debrincat - Aho - Svechnikov could be really dynamic.

Pretty much my exact thinking

 

[Micklebot]

If both Pesce and Debrincat came with extensions I could see a 1 for 1, especially if Carolina is bounced due to lack of scoring.

Debrincat - Aho - Svechnikov could be really dynamic.

I'd do it, Pesce would be a perfect fit imo, I also like the expanded deal where we send one of Thomson Brann or JBD over since all three needwaivers next year, getting a forward prospect who is waiver exempt back would be ideal

 

[aragorn]

Given that our main issue was the offense getting completely shut down that's far from a given.

Maybe if we had prime Karlsson instead of Redden we'd have been able to overcome the Moen line. Who knows...

Maybe if they would have dressed McGratton to go after Pronger & take him off the ice a few times they would have had a better chance. That hit on McCammon changed the momentum & the series when we had no response. If EK would have been in that series he would have been killed since their big forwards were targeting our D as every team does in the playoffs. Chara would also have helped immensely if he were on the team as well. It was also a very different time & the hockey was much more physical back then.

 

[slamigo]

Maybe if they would have dressed McGratton to go after Pronger & take him off the ice a few times they would have had a better chance. That hit on McCammon changed the momentum & the series when we had no response. If EK would have been in that series he would have been killed since their big forwards were targeting our D as every team does in the playoffs. Chara would also have helped immensely if he were on the team as well. It was also a very different time & the hockey was much more physical back then.

Actually, I found the biggest problem was that during the regular season, the Refs/League enforced the rules about interference. You weren't allowed to body check someone after a dump in and prevent them from chasing the puck down. Ottawa destroyed the league when interference was removed. Destroyed all challengers. It was awesome. Then in the finals, the refs/league decided that interference was now allowed and body checks 90' from the puck were suddenly fair game. Dangerous hits to players without the puck were allowed. Pronger got a 1 game suspension? Seriously? That series still pisses me off because the league changed the entire game to benefit Anaheim. It was a joke. Not that I'm carrying a grudge...

 

[HSF]

Girard would definitely be an upgrade on what we have now, even playing on his offside. I don’t think he’s the type of player we want once we are a contender. To me he is the prototypical “regular season” player. I’d aim for a better fit.


If both Pesce and Debrincat came with extensions I could see a 1 for 1, especially if Carolina is bounced due to lack of scoring.

Debrincat - Aho - Svechnikov could be really dynamic.

Motte - Norris - Giroux

seems much less dynamic

 

[Micklebot]

Motte - Norris - Giroux

seems much less dynamic

Uh, so you think when Norris is back Greig will be in Belleville, or on the fourth line? Or is Pinto going to the fourth line?

More likely we'd see

Tkachuk-Stützle-Joseph
Greig-Norris-Giroux
Motte/UFA-Pinto-Batherson

Or alternatively Joseph and Bath could've swapped if we want to load up.

 

[armani]

Motte - Norris - Giroux

seems much less dynamic

Greig - Norris - Giroux

Very dynamic.

 

[HSF]

Uh, so you thing when Norris is back Greig will be in Belleville, or on the fourth line? Or is Pinto going to the fourth line?

More likely we'd see

Tkachuk-Stützle-Joseph
Greig-Norris-Giroux
Motte/UFA-Pinto-Batherson

Or alternatively Joseph and Bath could've swapped if we want to load up.

DBC to Greig would be a massive downgrade for a team hunting for a playoff spot. Greig should start on the 3rd line and moved up when players get injured

The need for a stud on defense to me doesn't make sense. We have Sanderson who is going to get a massive payday and Chabot who is already getting paid to be a number 1. We should be able to fill that number 4 spot on defense while keeping out top 6 strong.

I guess we could move Pinto to wing but that seems a bit of a gamble and would make the 3rd line weak again

Greig - Norris - Giroux

Very dynamic.

if this is the play you are better off trading Greig and keeping the better LW in DBC and bringing in Chychrun in a Greig deal to have a stacked top 4 defense

Don't think sticking Greig as a LW for a team hunting for the playoffs is a smart play

 

[bicboi64]

Very interesting back and forth on Chara, EK, Hossa, Heatley and Alfie.

I take EK over Chara simply because we saw EK drag a mid roster to a conference finals. He was a gamebreak that Chara never was, but at the same time, Chara could be put into any situation in a game. Having said that, Chara's major weakness was speedy players. The Sabres exposed him with some quick passing and skating (granted everyone on our team failed to show up except Alfie in that series). Chara also got to play with the best defensive forward of all time, Bergeron, and a goalie who was a late bloomer but a multiple vezina winning beast in Thomas. Its a bit harder to compare EK and Chara when one side has two defensive beasts on their side and all EK has was Stone who was a selke calibre forward and one season of Anderson playing nuts in the playoffs. Having said that, both are HoF guys that can make a team into a contender, matter of what management/coaching style prefers.

Alfie was definitely a top 3 winger in the game for a season or two, but I'd argue he was a top 5 winger in terms of overall play. Consistency in all aspects of the game is what counts.

Hossa for Heater is a hard one. It screams dick move, extending Hossa and trading him. But Heatley is our only 50g scorer and wasn't a bum on defense. I do think keeping Hossa (and Chara) would've helped our longevity with that previous Sens core.

Most interesting point is that 03-04 lockout and how much it screwed us. Its so easy to forget how stacked our team was and how we are probably top 3 in terms of getting screwed due to the cap imposition.

 

[Micklebot]

DBC to Greig would be a massive downgrade for a team hunting for a playoff spot. Greig should start on the 3rd line and moved up when players get injured

Not as big as the downgrade to Motte, why should Greig automatically start on the third when he's looked great on the 2nd so far?

The need for a stud on defense to me doesn't make sense. We have Sanderson who is going to get a massive payday and Chabot who is already getting paid to be a number 1. We should be able to fill that number 4 spot on defense while keeping out top 6 strong.

Tkachuck, Stützle, Batherson, Giroux, Norris, Greig, Pinto, is a lot of solid options to fill out a top 6 and top 9. Jarventie, Sokolov and Crookshank look like they have potential in the near future too, though more likely as third liners

I guess we could move Pinto to wing but that seems a bit of a gamble and would make the 3rd line weak again

I'm not seeing why Greig isn't an option here, or we could throw Joseph on his off wing, certainly a better option than Motte.

if this is the play you are better off trading Greig and keeping the better LW in DBC and bringing in Chychrun in a Greig deal to have a stacked top 4 defense

So you want to bring in a LHD to play his offside rather that a natural RHD who seems like a perfect fit?

Don't think sticking Greig as a LW for a team hunting for the playoffs is a smart play

So where do you see Greig with Norris, Stützle and Pinto down the middle?

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Off-season proposal:

To Carolina:
Debrincat

To Ottawa:
Pesce (extended for 5-7yrs, 5.25-6m)

Could be a great trade. He's a bit too old for my liking but looks like he'll age well and we'll catch him through his prime years.

Greig-Stutzle-Giroux
Tkachuk-Norris-Batherson
Greenway-Pinto-Joseph
Kelly-Kaestlic-Motte

Chabot-Pesce
Sanderson-Zub

In a couple years, though, we are likely scrambling to find replacement for Giroux. Though wingers have proven to come by easily.

Greig-Stutzle look like a dynamic pair to come. Been predicting it for a couple years now. Only a matter of time once one or both become physically more capable. Their IQ games will mesh like glue.

Greig-Stutzle
Tkachuk-Norris
Batherson-Pinto

Chabot-Pesce
Sanderson-Zub

 

[Micklebot]

Could be a great trade. He's a bit too old for my liking but looks like he'll age well and we'll catch him through his prime years.

Greig-Stutzle-Giroux
Tkachuk-Norris-Batherson
Greenway-Pinto-Joseph
Kelly-Kaestlic-Motte

Chabot-Pesce
Sanderson-Zub

In a couple years, though, we are likely scrambling to find replacement for Giroux. Though wingers have proven to come by easily.

Greig-Stutzle look like a dynamic pair to come. Been predicting it for a couple years now. Only a matter of time once one or both become physically more capable. Their IQ games will mesh like glue.

Greig-Stutzle
Tkachuk-Norris
Batherson-Pinto

Chabot-Pesce
Sanderson-Zub

Where did Greenway come from???

 

[armani]

I don’t think one of my all-time fav Chara could’ve taken the team as far as EK65 did in 2017 SCF run. There in lies the difference in terms of which player has a greater impact on the ice. Chara may shut out more, but EK65’s elite vision and skating makes it rather simple for me.

Greatest Sens: Alfie > EK65
Best Player as Sens: EK65 > Alfie > Chara > Hossa

Hossa was a 2-way beast and had his best seasons elsewhere, Alfie brought more dimensions compared to the rest of the Sens greats of yesteryears.

 

[bicboi64]

I'm fine with getting Girard, he can play both sides and is a great puck mover and passer. He's not physically as mean as some other guys, but adding him to our top 4 would make all the difference. Not sure the Avs would move him though, they are going to have cap issues with Mac's new contract and Girard is perfectly worth his price.

A top 4 defender at a fair price with term, that can move the puck and isn't a defensive liability given how small he is, we're giving up a 2024 1st and some of our prospects like Thomson/JBD and another piece at the minimum

 

[HSF]

Not as big as the downgrade to Motte, why should Greig automatically start on the third when he's looked great on the 2nd so far?


Tkachuck, Stützle, Batherson, Giroux, Norris, Greig, Pinto, is a lot of solid options to fill out a top 6 and top 9. Jarventie, Sokolov and Crookshank look like they have potential in the near future too, though more likely as third liners

I'm not seeing why Greig isn't an option here, or we could throw Joseph on his off wing, certainly a better option than Motte.

So you want to bring in a LHD to play his offside rather that a natural RHD who seems like a perfect fit?


So where do you see Greig with Norris, Stützle and Pinto down the middle?

Greig should start on the 3rd because it lets us evaluate his game over a longer period of time without putting the pressure on him to score and produce. We saw this with Pinto where he struggled this year on a 2C role and just was not good enough. Young players take time to develop. We see that every day with the roster we have with guys improving each day but aren't there yet

You mention Pinto and Greig as top 6 options when they are not proven in those spots while DBC is. Giroux is also a wild card year after year depending on how his play diminishes with age.

Having Greig on the 3rd line is a great starting point while keeping a strong top 6. Also it allows us to handle injuries much better than we have over the past two season. We should really be learning about the depth required to get through the season from what we have seen

If we absolutely need to make a move for a stud like Chychrun then I would say Pinto or Greig are the obvious choice to make a strong roster next year as they most likely play on the 3rd line. I think we are better off keeping Greig and Pinto and making a Marino type move in the offseason and moving some of the lesser prospects like JBD or Thomson

 

[bicboi64]

Greig should start on the 3rd because it lets us evaluate his game over a longer period of time without putting the pressure on him to score and produce. We saw this with Pinto where he struggled this year on a 2C role and just was not good enough. Young players take time to develop. We see that every day with the roster we have with guys improving each day but aren't there yet

You mention Pinto and Greig as top 6 options when they are not proven in those spots while DBC is. Giroux is also a wild card year after year depending on how his play diminishes with age.

Having Greig on the 3rd line is a great starting point while keeping a strong top 6. Also it allows us to handle injuries much better than we have over the past two season. We should really be learning about the depth required to get through the season from what we have seen

If we absolutely need to make a move for a stud like Chychrun then I would say Pinto or Greig are the obvious choice to make a strong roster next year as they most likely play on the 3rd line. I think we are better off keeping Greig and Pinto and making a Marino type move in the offseason and moving some of the lesser prospects like JBD or Thomson

As much as I don't want Greig starting on the 2nd line, if we end up in a situation where we have to select having a rookie/sophomore in the 2nd line or another year without a top 4RD, I'd pick Greig on the 2nd line. I hope we keep Cat and have Greig at the 3rd line, but I'd argue its easier for a young winger to acclimate than have an younger defender being caved in playing on the 2nd pairing.

 

[Alex1234]

Uh, so you think when Norris is back Greig will be in Belleville, or on the fourth line? Or is Pinto going to the fourth line?

More likely we'd see

Tkachuk-Stützle-Joseph
Greig-Norris-Giroux
Motte/UFA-Pinto-Batherson

Or alternatively Joseph and Bath could've swapped if we want to load up.

Yup
Joseph is not top 6 material

 

[HSF]

As much as I don't want Greig starting on the 2nd line, if we end up in a situation where we have to select having a rookie/sophomore in the 2nd line or another year without a top 4RD, I'd pick Greig on the 2nd line. I hope we keep Cat and have Greig at the 3rd line, but I'd argue its easier for a young winger to acclimate than have an younger defender being caved in playing on the 2nd pairing.

When has a player of DBC caliber been required to get a number 4 defensemen?

I don't see it as a DBC or a top 4 D. I see it as our gm needs to start making a move when there are obvious players available and not try to do it mid season

Marino, Graves, Toews, Dhillon all went for less.

Also the coaching has to improve here. We have two studs on defense and another guy who is really good. That alone should be enough for us to no always make the same breakdowns in our own zone

 

[Micklebot]

Greig should start on the 3rd because it lets us evaluate his game over a longer period of time without putting the pressure on him to score and produce. We saw this with Pinto where he struggled this year on a 2C role and just was not good enough. Young players take time to develop. We see that every day with the roster we have with guys improving each day but aren't there yet

We have another 30 games to evaluate him, and he'd be playing in an easier role than center. It's not at all uncommon for players to come in on the wing in the top 6.

You mention Pinto and Greig as top 6 options when they are not proven in those spots while DBC is. Giroux is also a wild card year after year depending on how his play diminishes with age.

Not every player in the top 6 needs to be a stud, in fact, the vast majority of teams don't have that luxury. Playing young players in the top 6, particularly on the wing, is not at all uncommon.

Having Greig on the 3rd line is a great starting point while keeping a strong top 6. Also it allows us to handle injuries much better than we have over the past two season. We should really be learning about the depth required to get through the season from what we have seen

At the sacrifice of our top 4, which has had real issues. Having Greig play LW still gives us depth at center, which was the real issue, not depth in general. It's much easier to sub in someone on the wing than at center.

If we absolutely need to make a move for a stud like Chychrun then I would say Pinto or Greig are the obvious choice to make a strong roster next year as they most likely play on the 3rd line

Chychrun plays the wrong side and is injured all the time. He isn't the answer. We should be looking medium to long term not next season with any moves we make, trading Pinto or Greig puts us in a cap crunch while using DeBrincat opens up options to improve our depth beyond getting a top 4 RHD.

I'm good with keeping DeBrincat if we can make it work, but if it takes him to land a guy like Pesce it's worth it, we'd have one of the best top 4s in the league going forward imo, and have the depth up front to still be very good there. Improving the top 4 will make all 4 forward lines perform better at 5v5, it's a force multiplier.

 

[bicboi64]

When has a player of DBC caliber been required to get a number 4 defensemen?

I don't see it as a DBC or a top 4 D. I see it as our gm needs to start making a move when there are obvious players available and not try to do it mid season

Marino, Graves, Toews, Dhillon all went for less.

Also the coaching has to improve here. We have two studs on defense and another guy who is really good. That alone should be enough for us to no always make the same breakdowns in our own zone

I agree we don't need to move Cat to just get a #4. I'd want a haul with some more assets that we can use for depth. Only reason I'd be comfortable moving Cat is cuz we have some LW prospects that we can try gambling on.

Having said that, my rpeference is to not move him and extend him to 8 years $8 million