Proposal: Trade Rumours/Proposals PART XXXXX

[Pinto Bean]

If Pinto improves so much that he becomes a 8mill+ player then you will certainly trade one of Norris or Stuztle no?

Paying your 3rd C at 8mill does more to kill our depth then bridging Pinto

The whole point of signing Brady Stuztle Norris to long term deal is that it gives us flexibility as the cap increases

If Pinto becomes an 8M player then he is the type of player I want more than an 9M Cat. I would rather just trade Cat well before trading Norris or Stu. I'd rather just lock up Pinto long-term and actually maintain some resemblence of a bottom-6 and not just a bunch of rookies on ELC's.

 

[HSF]

Agree with a lot of what you said/posted. However, here are a few points well worth considering imho that could impact this scenario:

1. First of all, you ended up with a total number that was pretty close to mine (about $1 m difference). So, we are ending or converging on the same conclusion and same kind of estimate = good stuff.

2. There's 2 assumptions in your spreadsheet that are important. The first was Pinto on a bridge for $3m. I made the same assumption btw. The other is that we can get RHD for the 2nd pair at $5 m, along with Zub at $5 m I suppose as well. I don't think they are necessarily bad assumptions, but if they are a little low, we could end up around $90 m pretty easily. I found the Pinto assumption as one that I wondered about the most.

3. As for a 20 player roster, I don't think I've seen many 20-player rosters e.g., very few. That's paper thin and would allow for much like injuries that might add to cost, etc.

Conclusion:

A. We don't know if the cap ceiling will be $89 m (or higher hopefully) in 2024-25. Hope so, but we'll have to see.

B. We don't know if the team will spend to cap ceiling.

Should be manageable as a 21 man roster

Current NHL projection is a 87.5-88mill cap come 24-25 then an increase but it might be sooner

Bettman said he believes that debt could be paid off this season, with the cap rising between $4 million and $4.5 million for the 2023-24 season, which is ahead of schedule.

If Pinto becomes an 8M player then he is the type of player I want more than an 9M Cat. I would rather just trade Cat well before trading Norris or Stu. I'd rather just lock up Pinto long-term and actually maintain some resemblence of a bottom-6 and not just a bunch of rookies on ELC's.

okay? we can agree to disagree here but my point still stands that Pinto on a bridge makes a lot of sense cause you can have BOTH Pinto and Debrincat for a bit

 

[Que]

So does that mean Batherson for Kane?

Hypothetically yes.

Doubt it happens but a guy can dream. If I’m choosing one big fish between EK, Chychrun and Kane it is always 88.

 

[Cosmix]

Hypothetically yes.

Doubt it happens but a guy can dream. If I’m choosing one big fish between EK, Chychrun and Kane it is always 88.

Imagine the Kid's Christmas morning feeling of acquiring all three!

 

[Que]

Imagine the Kid's Christmas morning feeling of acquiring all three!

I couldn’t even… Just a team of all-stars running around the league.

 

[UglyPuckling]

Should be manageable as a 21 man roster

Current NHL projection is a 87.5-88mill cap come 24-25 then an increase but it might be sooner

1. Bettman said he believes that debt could be paid off this season, with the cap rising between $4 million and $4.5 million for the 2023-24 season, which is ahead of schedule.


okay? we can agree to disagree here but my point still stands that Pinto on a bridge makes a lot of sense cause you can have BOTH Pinto and Debrincat for a bit

1. Hope so. But, there was also another article out there at the time that wasn't quite as optimistic.

IF the cap goes up that much, lots of teams will be able to spend more as well, so the competition for RDs at bargain prices actually gets that much harder versus easier.

2. The other thing is we are assuming that the new owners will spend to the cap ceiling. We are still have about $3.9 m of cap space despite signing players this summer in preparation for the sale of the team. So, we don't really know what our budget or cap ceiling with be.

 

[Pinto Bean]

okay? we can agree to disagree here but my point still stands that Pinto on a bridge makes a lot of sense cause you can have BOTH Pinto and Debrincat for a bit

At the cost of current & future depth and a more expensive future Pinto just for 1-2years where we can have Pinto for cheaper in years that we still likely don't touch the playoffs let alone contend.

And we still don't know where the 2nd 5.0M RD magically appeared from which would make things even more interesting as I imagine we'll have to give up some nice assets for such a player. Probably players you slotted in your bottom-6

My whole point is why don't we acquire that 2nd RD with Cat so we can actually fill our roster with reputable players and add a nice replacement LW'er to boot with the 9M we'll save from not signing him.

It just gives the team soooo much flexibility to actually experiment with different routes as opposed to being locked in to praying for ELC's to workout and probably having to trade a bunch of other ELC's to actually acquire whoever that 5M RD was in your forecast.

 

[HSF]

At the cost of current & future depth and a more expensive future Pinto just for 1-2years where we can have Pinto for cheaper in years that we still likely don't touch the playoffs let alone contend.

And we still don't know where the 2nd 5.0M RD magically appeared from which would make things even more interesting as I imagine we'll have to give up some nice assets for such a player. Probably players you slotted in your bottom-6

again losing depth is natural when your talent gets older

if you want to be upset about something maybe be upset with Dorion and Co for not building a contender while guys are on cheap ELC

 

[Pinto Bean]

again losing depth is natural when your talent gets older

if you want to be upset about something maybe be upset with Dorion and Co for not building a contender while guys are on cheap ELC

We don't even have depth at this point. That's a major part in why we keep losing. Specifically defensive depth. We don't have a good d-core when healthy let alone to endure tons of injuries.

Locking in Cat just further straps the team to not be able to provide depth at pretty much every position on the roster. We can still have flexibility. Tons of it actually if we were to deal Cat for a Zub like defensemen. It allows us to have additional cap to go out and find a LW'er on the open market which is far easier than finding an RD anywhere. Cat is an intriguing enough asset that just maybe we'd be able to find a defensemen.

If a deal were to actually happen, we can safely sign all of our up and coming players, we'd have a very nice top-4 defensive core, and we'd still have funds to find a replacement LW and actually have some competent depth as opposed to filling out the bottom 6 and extras with ELC's.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Hakanpaa looks deec for Dallas. They pick him off FA

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Of the teams worse than us now…
Cheap options(to acquire) . Troy stecher, Justin Braun. Dyson mayo. Shattenkirk.

Medium. Gavrikov, Connor Murphy.

High end. Chychrun Seth Jones Erik karlsson

Also Ferraro and Benning who I’ve enjoyed when watching sharks the few sharks games that I have.

 

[Mookie McGee]

I’d rather Norris not play another game then risk boeser staying healthy and not losing speed every day. He is injured 24/7 as well

So the thought is the guy who has played 89.5% of his team's games the last 3 years is less healthy than the guy who will play 58% of his team's games the last 3 seasons while suffering 2 significant shoulder injuries, including one on a non-contact faceoff?
Yes a healthy Norris is probably slightly better than Boeser, despite being lower on career ppg at this point, but 2 bad shoulder injuries at this point make it suspect he will ever have a string of good health. And averaging 3 assists every 10 games so far in his career points to a playmaking deficiency that you never see among top centers in the league.
A 3rd shoulder blow out and you would have to wonder about his career longevity. So yes, if I'm the Canucks taking that on for a career 0.8 ppg guy seems a little risky, even 1 for 1.

 

[cudi]

So the thought is the guy who has played 89.5% of his team's games the last 3 years is less healthy than the guy who will play 58% of his team's games the last 3 seasons while suffering 2 significant shoulder injuries, including one on a non-contact faceoff?
Yes a healthy Norris is probably slightly better than Boeser, despite being lower on career ppg at this point, but 2 bad shoulder injuries at this point make it suspect he will ever have a string of good health. And averaging 3 assists every 10 games so far in his career points to a playmaking deficiency that you never see among top centers in the league.
A 3rd shoulder blow out and you would have to wonder about his career longevity. So yes, if I'm the Canucks taking that on for a career 0.8 ppg guy seems a little risky, even 1 for 1.

Boeser doesnt do much well besides shoot the puck. Norris is better than him nearly every aspect.

 

[TheNewEra]

Did Batherson kick someone in the face? Why are we trading him I mean giving him away?

 

[camZ]

So the thought is the guy who has played 89.5% of his team's games the last 3 years is less healthy than the guy who will play 58% of his team's games the last 3 seasons while suffering 2 significant shoulder injuries, including one on a non-contact faceoff?
Yes a healthy Norris is probably slightly better than Boeser, despite being lower on career ppg at this point, but 2 bad shoulder injuries at this point make it suspect he will ever have a string of good health. And averaging 3 assists every 10 games so far in his career points to a playmaking deficiency that you never see among top centers in the league.
A 3rd shoulder blow out and you would have to wonder about his career longevity. So yes, if I'm the Canucks taking that on for a career 0.8 ppg guy seems a little risky, even 1 for 1.

Boeser career high 56 points 4 years ago. Norris hit 55 last year. Boeser was never a good skater and the game is only getting faster and more dependant on being a good skater, his contract will not be pretty going forward and impact will be less and less.

I agree norris isn’t necessarily the playmaking Center that you need as the top guy, and think he might be a better winger if we were to ever get another elite Center. Jimmy can take the top role of elite Center and Norris as 2 and pinto 3

 

[Hale The Villain]

Hypothetically yes.

Doubt it happens but a guy can dream. If I’m choosing one big fish between EK, Chychrun and Kane it is always 88.

Trading 24YR old Batherson @ 4.975M for 34YR old Kane @ 10.5M (slightly less on an extension) is not a smart move to make.

 

[HSF]

1. Hope so. But, there was also another article out there at the time that wasn't quite as optimistic.

IF the cap goes up that much, lots of teams will be able to spend more as well, so the competition for RDs at bargain prices actually gets that much harder versus easier.

2. The other thing is we are assuming that the new owners will spend to the cap ceiling. We are still have about $3.9 m of cap space despite signing players this summer in preparation for the sale of the team. So, we don't really know what our budget or cap ceiling with be.

The cap should at minimum been 87.5-88mill by 2024-2025. This was reported by Friedman in Sept. Then Bettman came out in Oct and said it could go up 4 mill this summer.

I would say usually the NHL gives out a more conservative projection. Unless everything shuts down due to covid we should be at 87.5 but probably higher by 2024-2025

Did Batherson kick someone in the face? Why are we trading him I mean giving him away?

people have lost it

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Hypothetically yes.

Doubt it happens but a guy can dream. If I’m choosing one big fish between EK, Chychrun and Kane it is always 88.

I can accept you want Kane. And maybe a little dream of yours to acquire him and that’s fine but there’s zero sense in a batherson kane swap

 

[UglyPuckling]

The cap should at minimum been 87.5-88mill by 2024-2025. This was reported by Friedman in Sept. Then Bettman came out in Oct and said it could go up 4 mill this summer.

I would say usually the NHL gives out a more conservative projection. Unless everything shuts down due to covid we should be at 87.5 but probably higher by 2024-2025


people have lost it

Daly said something around the same time. It didn't align with what Bettman said i.e., it was more conservative.

No matter though in that we both ended up at around $89 m with some fairly optimistic assumptions built in as well. So, we might be OK, and we might not. It depends on what the cap ends up being in 2024-25. That's why happens when you go through the exercise of putting a spreadsheet together (and hence, why I requested it).

Also, as I mentioned before, with a larger cap increase, many teams will have more to spend on RDs. So, it won't really be any easier on the trade or UFA front (larger costs). And, we have no idea that the organization will spend to the ceiling.

Anyhow, I'm just repeating things (as are you), so I think we've run this to ground.

 

[Sens Vader]

How much would be need SJS to retain in a Karlsson trade?

Poulin, a few weeks back on TSN1200, mentioned it might have to be a deal where a 3rd team retains cap for SJS to move him

 

[HSF]

Daly said something around the same time. It didn't align with what Bettman said i.e., it was more conservative.

No matter though in that we both ended up at around $89 m with some fairly optimistic assumptions built in as well. So, we might be OK, and we might not. It depends on what the cap ends up being in 2024-25. That's why happens when you go through the exercise of putting a spreadsheet together (and hence, why I requested it).

Also, as I mentioned before, with a larger cap increase, many teams will have more to spend on RDs. So, it won't really be any easier on the trade or UFA front (larger costs). And, we have no idea that the organization will spend to the ceiling.

Anyhow, I'm just repeating things (as are you), so I think we've run this to ground.

yes it could be harder

time for the gm to do his job i guess. The sens are in a good position

 

[Que]

Hakanpaa looks deec for Dallas. They pick him off FA

Still can’t believe we signed Del Zotto over him. He’s not going anywhere though.

Of the teams worse than us now…
Cheap options(to acquire) . Troy stecher, Justin Braun. Dyson mayo. Shattenkirk.

Medium. Gavrikov, Connor Murphy.

High end. Chychrun Seth Jones Erik karlsson

Also Ferraro and Benning who I’ve enjoyed when watching sharks the few sharks games that I have.

Ferraro I’ve read is a future Alternate or better in SJ - don’t think he’s moving either. The rest sure, but I don’t think anyone outside of Gavrikov + is an upgrade at this point.

Someone (hopefully not us) is going to way overpay for a defender this deadline (money on Toronto).

Trading 24YR old Batherson @ 4.975M for 34YR old Kane @ 10.5M (slightly less on an extension) is not a smart move to make.

Kane is the better offensive player, he makes DeBrincat better and if he were to sign a 2 year extension it would be worth it imo.

The cap should at minimum been 87.5-88mill by 2024-2025. This was reported by Friedman in Sept. Then Bettman came out in Oct and said it could go up 4 mill this summer.

I would say usually the NHL gives out a more conservative projection. Unless everything shuts down due to covid we should be at 87.5 but probably higher by 2024-2025


people have lost it

With the cap going up substantially by the time his contract is up I suspect Bathman will want a hefty raise that we may simply not be able to afford at that point. (Sanderson)

And not people - just me. Spent the weekend white knuckling the shower handle taking pseudo trying my best not to let this respiratory virus win.

So my posts I normally create and then subsequently delete I’m just posting right now lol. Probably not good quality/worth reading.

 

[Ice-Tray]

The fact that we can even ‘realistically’ talk about landing massive players in a trade is a revelation as a Sens fan.

The nice thing about Kane is that his trade value won’t be necessarily be high considering he can chose his destination for the trade completely. He can get his destination, or cruise to UFA, or both, if he wants. If Ottawa makes a decent offer and it’s where he wants to go, well….

I wouldn’t send Bath though, that’s crazy, and we can always wait for the off season and see how things shake out. Telling that he mentions playing with Cat specifically, try cool rumour for Sens fans regardless

 

[Que]

I can accept you want Kane. And maybe a little dream of yours to acquire him and that’s fine but there’s zero sense in a batherson kane swap

To me there are two scenarios where Ottawa could acquire Kane.

In one you drain the cupboard (1st, Grieg, Kleven, plus) or the other you give an already established player with a lesser asset. To me Bath is the odd man out with Kane - he’d be on the 3rd line.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

I think we're playing a dangerous game by assuming the new owners will be maxing out the cap. New pockets may be deep, but they'll be tossing out well over one billion dollars to buy the team and get the construction of the new arena going. Plus, we are more than 1 player away from being a playoff team, let alone a contender.

As for Cat, I like him. I really do. But throwing a significant amount of money into our 1LW and 2LW positions...that's really dangerous. I'll pay a bit more money to the top centers, and top RDs, because those positions are really hard to get top quality. LWs are so common you can shake a few tress and a few will fall onto your lap. Paying Brady a kings ransom is more than enough investment in that position. Cat is a luxury....unless he's willing to take one hell of a big pay cut on his next deal.

Ideally, we re-sign Zub, and get a legit 1RD. We can live with scrubs on the third pairing (like most teams). I would expect the acquisition will be the type that is like Zub, but slightly better (so, not a $10 mil quality guy). Then let the rest of the team grow a bit and see what happens.