Proposal: Trade Rumours/Proposals PART XXXXX

[Big Muddy]

looks like you arent paying attention

I did the math in post #212 in this thread

Cat can be signed and we can get a 5 mill defensemen on rd while keeping Zub

LOL. Yes, I saw that.

You had a $89 m cap which may or may not exceed the cap in 2024-25. You also "talked about" (versus your spreadsheet) a 20-player roster which virtually never happens. Plus, you made a number of assumptions to come up with that number.

The poster you were responding to was framing the scenario (in words) more accurately than you were, but that was to be expected. And, numbers are numbers of course. You didn't prove anything.

 

[HSF]

LOL. Yes, I saw that.

You had a $89 m cap which may or may not exceed the cap in 2024-25. You also "talked about" (versus your spreadsheet) a 20-player roster which virtually never happens. Plus, you made a number of assumptions to come up with that number.

The poster you were responding to was framing the scenario (in words) more accurately than you were, but that was to be expected. And, numbers are numbers of course. You didn't prove anything.

can you give me a breakdown on which assumptions on the salaries you think is incorrect?

Even if you run a 21 man roster it should be easy to be cap compliant with the cap moving to 87.5-88

You said a whole bunch of nothing in the post. Sounds like you aren't really here to pay attention. The other poster literally agreed with most of my assumptions

 

[Big Muddy]

can you give me a breakdown on which assumptions on the salaries you think is incorrect?

Even if you run a 21 man roster it should be easy to be cap compliant with the cap moving to 87.5-88

You said a whole bunch of nothing in the post. Sounds like you aren't really here to pay attention

Most teams run a 23 player roster. The poster you responded to went over the assumptions you made & framed them correctly in #222. Of course you ignored them.

 

[HSF]

Most teams run a 23 player roster. The poster you responded to went over the assumptions & framed them correctly.

uhhh have you been living under a rock? A lot of teams close to the cap don't carry the max roster limit until they get injury relief

If that is your only issue with my assessment then I would say you agree with a bulk of it and it can def work with Cat. I also suspect that Ottawa has already run the numbers hence why they got Cat in the first place

 

[Big Muddy]

uhhh have you been living under a rock? A lot of teams close to the cap don't carry the max roster limit until they get injury relief

If that is your only issue with my assessment then I would say you agree with a bulk of it and it can def work with Cat. I also suspect that Ottawa has already run the numbers hence why they got Cat in the first place

Currently, 22 teams have a 23-player roster. 7 have a 22-player roster. That's probably why the exercise was based on 22-players which is one under the norm or the amount that most teams carry.

And, you've glossed over the assumptions part again. I guess I'll have to point out that IF all those assumptions you made come true, then you have a $89 m budget. If not, you are very likely over the $89m. What you have is what I call a "definite maybe".

Let's keep this civil.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

He wouldn't be a solution to the top 4 d we need but Luke Schenn would be a nice depth addition.

Only problem is Vancouver's turning it around quicker than us and may not be looking to shed as much. Hell of a win for them last night and only a game below .500 now.

chychrun playing really well

Ironically took the penalty to lose the game after this.

 

[Que]

Yeah neither those two scenarios appeal to me personally

I get it. That’s why when I think of things like this I let them sit in the text box for 24 hours so the session expires, ha.

 

[HSF]

Currently, 22 teams have a 23-player roster. 7 have a 22-player roster. That's probably why the exercise was based on 22-players which is one under the norm or the amount that most teams carry.

And, you've glossed over the assumptions part again. I guess I'll have to point out that IF all those assumptions you made come true, then you have a $89 m budget. If not, you are very likely over the $89m. What you have is what I call a "definite maybe".

Let's keep this civil.

So you have proven my point teams that are close to the cap carry less players. Also like i said it is until injuries hit and you create some cap space. Hence why a team like Toronto can call up more players once their defensemen started to go on IR.

This is a very civil conversation and you have not pointed out which salary assumption I made seems off? My personal belief is that Cat will come in a tad lower than 8.5 and I am not sure that Sanderson will get 8.5 off his ELC we could potentially look at a bridge and go for a couple years of a cup run. Even if Sanderson comes in at 8.5 (Makar just signed 9x6) it is possible to make it fit as I have shown.

Lastly, I have kept Talbot on the roster which I am not sure will be the case.

Really the only thing we aren't sure of is if the new owners will spend to the cap but that to me is a whole other convo.

 

[UglyPuckling]

Currently, 22 teams have a 23-player roster. 7 have a 22-player roster. That's probably why the exercise was based on 22-players which is one under the norm or the amount that most teams carry.

And, you've glossed over the assumptions part again. I guess I'll have to point out that IF all those assumptions you made come true, then you have a $89 m budget. If not, you are very likely over the $89m. What you have is what I call a "definite maybe".

Let's keep this civil.

Wow, I did not see this coming. My apologies.

I would agree pretty much with your conclusion.

We both came up with similar numbers that also embedded a number of assumptions. That's to be expected when you are looking at a situation 2 years from now with a bunch of inherent unknowns. I'm not sure you can convert a situation that includes a bunch of assumptions into a solid conclusion.

I just like to look at the numbers. Numbers are easier and are very revealing.

When posters mention adding this player and that player (especially when its a couple of expensive players), it's a good idea to run the numbers to see if they work, or have a decent potential of working. Otherwise, its just kind of wish list type discussion.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Still can’t believe we signed Del Zotto over him. He’s not going anywhere though.



Ferraro I’ve read is a future Alternate or better in SJ - don’t think he’s moving either. The rest sure, but I don’t think anyone outside of Gavrikov + is an upgrade at this point.

Someone (hopefully not us) is going to way overpay for a defender this deadline (money on Toronto).



Kane is the better offensive player, he makes DeBrincat better and if he were to sign a 2 year extension it would be worth it imo.



With the cap going up substantially by the time his contract is up I suspect Bathman will want a hefty raise that we may simply not be able to afford at that point. (Sanderson)

And not people - just me. Spent the weekend white knuckling the shower handle taking pseudo trying my best not to let this respiratory virus win.

So my posts I normally create and then subsequently delete I’m just posting right now lol. Probably not good quality/worth reading.

We don’t have the cap space to sign DeBrincat and Kane, that’s a pipe dream.

 

[HSF]

I would agree pretty much with your conclusion.

We both came up with similar numbers that also embedded a number of assumptions. That's to be expected when you are looking at a situation 2 years from now with a bunch of inherent unknowns. I'm not sure you can convert a situation that includes a bunch of assumptions into a solid conclusion.

I just like to look at the numbers. Numbers are easier and are very revealing.

When posters mention adding this player and that player (especially when its a couple of expensive players), it's a good idea to run the numbers to see if they work, or have a decent potential of working. Otherwise, its just kind of wish list type discussion.

Definitely cant come to a solid conclusion but I would say if you have a quality young player you are better off signing them and then deal players later if needed. A signed quality player at the very least will return a bigger asset and none of these guys can have NMC till they reach their UFA years.

For example if Pinto somehow becomes a better option than Norris then Norris provides a solid return if he is signed.

I personally also don't think we need a high end RD to compete with Sanderson and Chabot here. A Marino type would be perfect along with Zub. If people are looking for a Seth Jones type deal then fine trade Cat but I think that is too much of a good thing on defense and our 2nd line would struggle

 

[Golden_Jet]

So you have proven my point teams that are close to the cap carry less players. Also like i said it is until injuries hit and you create some cap space. Hence why a team like Toronto can call up more players once their defensemen started to go on IR.

This is a very civil conversation and you have not pointed out which salary assumption I made seems off? My personal belief is that Cat will come in a tad lower than 8.5 and I am not sure that Sanderson will get 8.5 off his ELC we could potentially look at a bridge and go for a couple years of a cup run. Even if Sanderson comes in at 8.5 (Makar just signed 9x6) it is possible to make it fit as I have shown.

Lastly, I have kept Talbot on the roster which I am not sure will be the case.

Really the only thing we aren't sure of is if the new owners will spend to the cap but that to me is a whole other convo.

I’d prefer to always be 2-3 million under the cap, for flexibility.

 

[Micklebot]

i did the math above

you can sign both Cat and get another RD and sign Zub

Having cat is not a luxury. You are acting like our team is good and is about to sign a complimentary player. Most good teams have a very good 2nd line. We already have our centers sign long term so we don;t need to worry about that

JBD, Thomson and Kelly will need new contracts, and will require a nominal raise. White should be a negative that year, buyouts are weird

2023-24 could be tight, using your numbers we be at ~85 mil without accounting for the required raise to JBD (the others only need raises in 24-25)

Then there's the lack of room for callups, guys will get injured and unless they go on LTIR it will cause problems, and with us being potentially tight to the cap in 2023-24, you then need to worry about ELC performance bonuses carrying over to 2024-25, I'm fairly sure Sanderson will hit some, and that's a 1.85 mil liability.

The other elephant in the room is relying on bother Greig and Boucher (or some other ELC player) to be ready and capable 3rd liners.

 

[HSF]

JBD, Thomson and Kelly will need new contracts, and will require a nominal raise. White should be a negative that year, buyouts are weird

2023-24 could be tight, using your numbers we be at ~85 mil without accounting for the required raise to JBD (the others only need raises in 24-25)

Then there's the lack of room for callups, guys will get injured and unless they go on LTIR it will cause problems, and with us being potentially tight to the cap in 2023-24, you then need to worry about ELC performance bonuses carrying over to 2024-25, I'm fairly sure Sanderson will hit some, and that's a 1.85 mil liability.

The other elephant in the room is relying on bother Greig and Boucher (or some other ELC player) to be ready and capable 3rd liners.

I suspect instead of prospects we will sign some league minimum guys to try and fill the bottom 6 that way guys who are left behind in free agency once we get past 24-25 the cap is projected to be at 90mill. You are right about bonuses. I also wonder what the plan is with Formenton and Talbot those two are a bit of an unknown and if someone like Soogard would be ready to go. I suspect Greig will be in the NHL next year but that depends on the new management and coach

 

[UglyPuckling]

We don’t have the cap space to sign DeBrincat and Kane, that’s a pipe dream.

Here you go.

22 player 2024-25 roster with Debrincat & Kane.

$93.2 m.

 

[UglyPuckling]

JBD, Thomson and Kelly will need new contracts, and will require a nominal raise. White should be a negative that year, buyouts are weird

2023-24 could be tight, using your numbers we be at ~85 mil without accounting for the required raise to JBD (the others only need raises in 24-25)

Then there's the lack of room for callups, guys will get injured and unless they go on LTIR it will cause problems, and with us being potentially tight to the cap in 2023-24, you then need to worry about ELC performance bonuses carrying over to 2024-25, I'm fairly sure Sanderson will hit some, and that's a 1.85 mil liability.

The other elephant in the room is relying on bother Greig and Boucher (or some other ELC player) to be ready and capable 3rd liners.

He was at $89 m with Debrincat ($8.5 m) and Zub & another RD at $5 m.

But, this was 2024-25 though. I mention 2024-25 because we have to sign Sanderson then. So, what we do in 2023-24 can't interfere with Jake's signing.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Here you go.

22 player 2024-25 roster with Debrincat & Kane.

$93.2 m.

View attachment 617674

I haven’t seen any projections at over 93 million,

 

[Que]

Man…

What did I start?

Sigh.

 

[UglyPuckling]

I haven’t seen any projections at over 93 million,

Me neither. I really doubt it ($93 m), but whatever I suppose.

But, some posters talk about this kind of thing, so thought I'd show the numbers (provide a model).

P.S.. I bolded the pipe dream words in my reply.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

IMO they should forget about Chychrun unless the price drops.
after this year he'll have 2 years left 4.6AAV is nice but real $ is at 12.4M over 2 years. The 4.6 is the attractive part and maybe that is more important than the real $ but they want a boat load for him and the Sens could be forced to move him by the end of 24-25 ..as the price to keep him beyond that would likely be substantially more.

 

[Cosmix]

Luke Schenn is not the answer for our D issues

Perhaps as a 3rd pair D. We need a top 2 RD.

 

[GCK]

whats. the issue with next year?

The cap will be somewhere between 83.5-86.5 and keeping Zub and Debrincat means we are basically maxed out even bridging Pinto and dumping Player 22.

 

[Cosmix]

We don’t have the cap space to sign DeBrincat and Kane, that’s a pipe dream.

Nor the budget salary dollars to spend.

 

[Micklebot]

I suspect instead of prospects we will sign some league minimum guys to try and fill the bottom 6 that way guys who are left behind in free agency once we get past 24-25 the cap is projected to be at 90mill. You are right about bonuses. I also wonder what the plan is with Formenton and Talbot those two are a bit of an unknown and if someone like Soogard would be ready to go. I suspect Greig will be in the NHL next year but that depends on the new management and coach

Any way you swing it, relying having 8 guys (Greig, Boucher, Crookshank, Kastelic, Kelly, JBD, Thomson, and an unnamed 13th forward) making less than 1 mil on the roster is risky business, means your very reliant on the top 6 F and top 4 D, and highly susceptible to injuries to key players.

He was at $89 m with Debrincat ($8.5 m) and Zub & another RD at $5 m.

But, this was 2024-25 though. I mention 2024-25 because we have to sign Sanderson then. So, what we do in 2023-24 can't interfere with Jake's signing.

Right, I crunched the numbers for 2023-24 myself because it's a potential bottleneck. The biggest problem imo comes if we are a cap team next year Sanderson will almost certainly get performance bonuses and they'll carry over.

As an aside, I've seen a lot of 2025 numbers including 625k for the white Buyout, but that's actually a credit because buyouts are weird.

 

[HSF]

Any way you swing it, relying having 8 guys (Greig, Boucher, Crookshank, Kastelic, Kelly, JBD, Thomson, and an unnamed 13th forward) making less than 1 mil on the roster is risky business, means your very reliant on the top 6 F and top 4 D, and highly susceptible to injuries to key players.

Right, I crunched the numbers for 2023-24 myself because it's a potential bottleneck. The biggest problem imo comes if we are a cap team next year Sanderson will almost certainly get performance bonuses and they'll carry over.

As an aside, I've seen a lot of 2025 numbers including 625k for the white Buyout, but that's actually a credit because buyouts are weird.

Relying on cheap ELC or cheap vets is the nature of the beast in the cap world

Yes you are more susceptible to injury but thats why good drafting is key for good team