Proposal: Trade Rumours/Proposals PART XXXXIX

[Wallet Inspector]

Sanderson gets paid while Giroux is still here. The issue is going and getting a D and re-signing Zub. Money doesn’t fit unless a winger is moved

If the cap goes up by 4 mil next year we can re-sign Zub and get another D if we can trade Zaitsev and Joseph.

 

[HSF]

Sanderson gets paid while Giroux is still here. The issue is going and getting a D and re-signing Zub. Money doesn’t fit unless a winger is moved

the money actually does fit Pinto should be bridged and zaitsev off the book

 

[Que]

Tkachuk - Giroux - DeBrincat
Stützle - Pinto - Batherson

Have we tried this yet?

 

[bert]

Imagine reading what I wrote and that's what you think is the summary of what I said. Jesus you guys are so out to lunch sometimes. Desperate to build strawman arguments so you can make yourself feel better with cheap insults and "smart" rhetoric.

I love how shook you guys get when someone says something that isn't 100% in line with your opinion. f*** outta here.

The irony. You didn't even say anything outside of insulting posters for not being 'reasonable'. Wtf are you even talking about?

 

[GCK]

Forget Hronek, we should be trying to get Edvinsson out of any Detroit deal.

Are we giving Stutzle or Sanderson lol

 

[GCK]

2 weeks after he was hired no less...

People need a scapgoat, but the likelihood PM is the reason they drafted Boucher is close to nil.

There is a theory that PM went to Melnyk to push for his buddy’s kid and Melnyk directed Dorion to select Boucher. I’m not saying I believe it but having witnessed the level of distinction within the org I don’t fully rule it out.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

If this is the return we are expecting for Debrincat, I think people are going to be disappointed.


I doubt Debrincat would return a player like Pesce.

If canes decide they need scoring he absolutely does. You know who Alex debrincat is right

This board really believes a team needs 4 amazing d men to compete. You don’t. Good coaches can get by with 3 really good ones and 3 bottom pairing guys.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Too much money invested in wingers. Trade either Debrincat or Batherson. 30M of cap space on top 6 wingers is idiotic distribution of cap dollars.

Would agree with this if we didn’t have money already tied up ultra long term in centers. Which we do. They’re paid for already. Biggest issue is 4.5 tied up in an AHL d man.

 

[UglyPuckling]

If canes decide they need scoring he absolutely does. You know who Alex debrincat is right

This board really believes a team needs 4 amazing d men to compete. You don’t. Good coaches can get by with 3 really good ones and 3 bottom pairing guys.

I know who Debrincat is, and more importantly, I know who Pesce is. I watch a ton of NON Senators hockey.

If the Canes decide they want to add players for a deep playoff run this year, I think they'll just add players without subtracting good roster players especially a good defenseman on a reasonable contract. Subtracting a good 2nd pair RD that also plays the 2nd unit PP is not a good way to add to or strengthen your team.

If the Canes were to offer Pesce for trade for some (unknown) reason, they certainly don't need to add a potential 1st rounder to him to get a forward who can score.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

There is a theory that PM went to Melnyk to push for his buddy’s kid and Melnyk directed Dorion to select Boucher. I’m not saying I believe it but having witnessed the level of distinction within the org I don’t fully rule it out.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

We really trust Dorion trading debrincat anyway?

It’s gonna be like debrincat and 2nd for kuzmenko and Tyler Myers.

 

[UglyPuckling]

We really trust Dorion trading debrincat anyway?

It’s gonna be like debrincat and 2nd for kuzmenko and Tyler Myers.

Doubt if the Board is going to allow Dorion to do whatever he wants between now and the TDL. When something like this occurs, there's typically restrictions on what can be done and assets are frozen until the deal is completed.

 

[Micklebot]

I know who Debrincat is, and more importantly, I know who Pesce is. I watch a ton of NON Senators hockey.

If the Canes decide they want to add players for a deep playoff run this year, I think they'll just add players without subtracting good roster players especially a good defenseman on a reasonable contract. Subtracting a good 2nd pair RD that also plays the 2nd unit PP is not a good way to add to or strengthen your team.

If the Canes were to offer Pesce for trade for some (unknown) reason, they certainly don't need to add a potential 1st rounder to him to get a forward who can score.

I'll give you that the initial proposal was pretty steep, but too be fair, retaining 50% on DeBrincat makes him a pretty hot commodity for a contender, even if they only want him as a rental, they can recoup a lot by sign and trading him in the offseason. Perhaps he doesn't quite return what Fiala did unless he turns around his season going forward, but how far off would it really be if a team moved him this offseason as an RFA in a sign and trade? Now add a rental return for a 3.2 mil cap hit multiple 40g scoring winger.

 

[UglyPuckling]

I'll give you that the initial proposal was pretty steep, but too be fair, retaining 50% on DeBrincat makes him a pretty hot commodity for a contender, even if they only want him as a rental, they can recoup a lot by sign and trading him in the offseason. Perhaps he doesn't quite return what Fiala did unless he turns around his season going forward, but how far off would it really be if a team moved him this offseason as an RFA in a sign and trade? Now add a rental return for a 3.2 mil cap hit multiple 40g scoring winger.

OK, don't disagree with a lot of what you have presented. But still, removing a good RD is not a great strategy for a team wanting to make a deep playoff run. There are better and more practical ways of accomplishing that goal that don't include losing a key piece on the blueline.

 

[GCK]

If canes decide they need scoring he absolutely does. You know who Alex debrincat is right

This board really believes a team needs 4 amazing d men to compete. You don’t. Good coaches can get by with 3 really good ones and 3 bottom pairing guys.

No chance Pesce gets moved IMO.

 

[Micklebot]

OK, don't disagree with a lot of what you have presented. But still, removing a good RD is not a great strategy for a team wanting to make a deep playoff run. There are better and more practical ways of accomplishing that goal that don't include losing a key piece on the blueline.

Yeah, the hitch in the proposal is more that Carolina likely has no interest in moving a top 4 D when they want to make noise in the playoffs, I'm more just trying to figure out why people think a return for DeBrincat will suck, he's marketable to both contending teams and rebuilding teams, and can be flipped by teams just looking for a rental, by all accounts he should be able to get a strong return.

 

[UglyPuckling]

No chance Pesce gets moved IMO.

Leaf fans were talking about trying to get Pesce. It persisted for awhile and they were hot after the guy. There was a rumor that they were prepared to offer Nylander iirc. It never happened obviously.

 

[Micklebot]

Leaf fans were talking about trying to get Pesce. It persisted for awhile and they were hot after the guy. There was a rumor that they were prepared to offer Nylander iirc. It never happened obviously.

To play Devils advocate, he's UFA after next year, and Pacioretty will come off LTIR soon, I don't think the need to clear space but they'll likely be very tight. I could see them making some unexpected moves even if Pesce isn't the one they ship out.

 

[UglyPuckling]

Yeah, the hitch in the proposal is more that Carolina likely has no interest in moving a top 4 D when they want to make noise in the playoffs, I'm more just trying to figure out why people think a return for DeBrincat will suck, he's marketable to both contending teams and rebuilding teams, and can be flipped by teams just looking for a rental, by all accounts he should be able to get a strong return.

I'm not sure the return will suck. But, if a team is looking at Debrincat as a long term piece, they are going to have to pay $9 m next year and then deal with issue of working out a new contract. That's a bit of an unknown, so GMs might be a little more adverse when there is uncertainty. Maybe a team in this situation would be allowed to talk to Debrincat and his agent (I don't think this is cap circumvention) as a way of mitigating this risk. I'd guess the Senators would need to give permission for this to happen.

I'm hoping like most that somehow a Debrincat trade could be parlayed into getting a good RD. That would be a great result. I just don't know if that's going to be a 1-step or a 2-step process. By 2-step I mean that maybe the return (main piece) from Debrincat is a pick (or another asset type) that is then added to the package to acquire a good RD later. One of the markets for Debrincat is a team with deep playoff run aspirations, so those teams are more likely to trade futures versus good roster players.

I think teams tend to covet their good RDs in general and are typically loathe to move them unless there are other issues like a cap crunch. Even then, teams will search for, and carefully consider other alternatives rather than losing the good RD.

One alternative that isn't being discussed much is free agency. All a free agency acquisition costs is money versus assets. I'm hoping with new ownership we are more active in free agency than we have been in the past with limited finance Melnyk as owner.

 

[UglyPuckling]

To play Devils advocate, he's UFA after next year, and Pacioretty will come off LTIR soon, I don't think the need to clear space but they'll likely be very tight. I could see them making some unexpected moves even if Pesce isn't the one they ship out.

They could put Derek Stepan on waivers when Pacioretty returns. They'll need to only clear less than $200k when Pacioretty finally returns.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

No chance Pesce gets moved IMO.

No likely not. But the value isn’t far off.

 

[Golden_Jet]

To play Devils advocate, he's UFA after next year, and Pacioretty will come off LTIR soon, I don't think the need to clear space but they'll likely be very tight. I could see them making some unexpected moves even if Pesce isn't the one they ship out.

If by soon, you mean late February, early March, as they said he was 6 months minimum. So by then 80% of his salary will be done, so they’ll need the equivalent of about 20% of his cap hit to bring him back on the roster at the most.

 

[Micklebot]

If by soon, you mean late February, early March, as they said he was 6 months minimum. So by then 80% of his salary will be done, so they’ll need the equivalent of about 20% of his cap hit to bring him back on the roster at the most.

That's not how LTIR works.

players on LTIR never come off the books, his cap hit already counts in full against them. Right now they have access to LTIR relief. Any players added to the roster after they place Pacioretty on LTIR have used that relief pool rather than added to their cumulative cap hit.

Carolina's ACLS is 82.486 mil, they didn't have much room when Pacietty went on LTIR. they have 11 mil in LTIR salary pool from Pacioretty and Gardiner. When Pacietty comes off, they will only have ~4 mil in LTIR relief left max from Gardiner, and will be right tight to their limit as their roster can not exceed the ACLS + their LTIR relief. Right now their roster has a cap hit of about 86.5 mil, so when Pacioretty comes back they will be right up against their max unless the make a move, but moving Stepan Drury or Noesen will give them some space.

Like I said, they are really tight, any callups from injuries along the way could make it even tighter.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

ya not a fan of moving Batherson.

That contract is a huge huge asset. He is likely playing his worst stretch of hockey since his rookie season, don't turn on him for it.

I need to be hearing names like Dobson, Weegar, Bouchard, before I even think about moving Batherson. I.E ain’t gonna happen.

If canes decide they need scoring he absolutely does. You know who Alex debrincat is right

Maybe. I dunno. He’s a top pairing D, a huge part of their team, and plays a game that not many can. Value might be close but I don’t think they’d give it much thought.

 

[Golden_Jet]

That's not how LTIR works.

players on LTIR never come off the books, his cap hit already counts in full against them. Right now they have access to LTIR relief. Any players added to the roster after they place Pacioretty on LTIR have used that relief pool rather than added to their cumulative cap hit.

Carolina's ACLS is 82.486 mil, they didn't have much room when Pacietty went on LTIR. they have 11 mil in LTIR salary pool from Pacioretty and Gardiner. When Pacietty comes off, they will only have ~4 mil in LTIR relief left max from Gardiner, and will be right tight to their limit as their roster can not exceed the ACLS + their LTIR relief. Right now their roster has a cap hit of about 86.5 mil, so when Pacioretty comes back they will be right up against their max unless the make a move, but moving Stepan Drury or Noesen will give them some space.

Like I said, they are really tight, any callups from injuries along the way could make it even tighter.

I know how LTIR works thanks, and I never mentioned LTIR once, in the quote you posted. You totally misread what I posted, but that’s fine. To summarize I said they will need only to find about 20% of his cap hit by the time he comes back.
That was solely in response to your saying Paccioretty is coming back soon. My whole point was he’s not coming back soon, in my post, nothing to do with LTIR, that’s why I never brought it up. He’s 3 months away from coming back, not soon. Cheers.

Thanks for informing other posts how LTIR works though I guess lol.