Proposal: Trade Rumours/Proposals PART XXXXIX

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Micklebot

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It seems like the finger gets pointed at those that lobby for it as worth exploring, but the hard "emotional" feelings feel like it's coming more from those staunchly opposed for non on ice reasons.
I don't disagree with you here, I just don't see him as a good fit for our needs, but sometimes you got to work with what's available instead of just hoping that something that isn't available will fall in your lap.
 

DaveMatthew

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It seems like the finger gets pointed at those that lobby for it as worth exploring, but the hard "emotional" feelings feel like it's coming more from those staunchly opposed for non on ice reasons.

It's funny. It certainly doesn't seem like a "non-starter without a doubt it's a bad fit no chance of it happening" type situation for Dorion, who would know better than anyone what happened in 17/18.

What is a realistic package for Karlsson that the Sharks would be interested in?

Probably depends on how much you need them to retain. The more retention, the higher the price.

If someone is willing to take on the whole $11.5M, I bet they let him go for a Burns type package (aka. nothing).
 

BonHoonLayneCornell

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I don't disagree with you here, I just don't see him as a good fit for our needs, but sometimes you got to work with what's available instead of just hoping that something that isn't available will fall in your lap.
Yes and that is a pretty good argument, its a bit of a square peg with our lineup/salary construction. That's probably why the Chabot idea was floated.

I'm just interested if he keeps this up. I've long thought he would "figure it out" after navigating his injuries, etc. I mean, if he does keep this up or reasonably close to this level, you're talking about a superstar level player that doesn't come up for grabs very often, especially for a franchise like ours. The only reason it's even a discussion is because of the familiarity, but Ottawa wouldn't be in the conversation otherwise.
It's funny. It certainly doesn't seem like a "non-starter without a doubt it's a bad fit no chance of it happening" type situation for Dorion, who would know better than anyone what happened in 17/18.
I am sure Dorion knows better than anyone what is what here and he has a bit of a history with big, convoluted deals with lots of salary being considered. I think he had interest in keeping 65 around in the first place more so than his boss.
 

GSG1165

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All in on Karlsson. With Alfie rumored to be coming back under new ownership its a slam dunk. Chabot for Karlsson being the basis of the deal to make room.
 

BonHoonLayneCornell

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All in on Karlsson. With Alfie rumored to be coming back under new ownership its a slam dunk. Chabot for Karlsson being the basis of the deal to make room.
If Dorion is striking out with re-signing both Zub and Cat and feeling like that won't happen, that could be a reason he would like into it. He's spoken openly now about the difficulty of bring players to a Canadian team, so maybe he's trying to get creative to replace two possible high end players leaving. Those will be huge losses if they come to pass.
 
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bert

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I don't disagree with you here, I just don't see him as a good fit for our needs, but sometimes you got to work with what's available instead of just hoping that something that isn't available will fall in your lap.
I think certain posters are peddling that as the main reason as to why so many dont think its a good idea. When in reality its the players age specifically relative to the core of this team its best players are 20 years old, Karlsson is 32. The term of the contract and what they are going to have to pay younger players on this roster to retain them. When you really look at it, its a bad idea if the teams really trying to win a Stanley Cup. It will cost them atleast one of Zub, Sanderson, Debrincat or Pinto from a contract perspective. When this team is ready to compete will Karlsson still be a prime performer? Those players will be.

While the latter isnt the main reason, the impact it could have on the room isnt something to completely look over.

Lastly I think its interesting that so many people want Dorion replaced but trust him in this scenario...

Overall people just need to be more patient in general with this group its very young and hasnt had a new coach yet. Will be interesting to see the impact a new coach will have whenver it does happen.
 

RAFI BOMB

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A few more comments on 6'9 220 lbs Stepan Falkovsky:
At 25 years old he is right around the same age that we signed Artem Zub. Also like Zub he plays for SKA. Finally he played for the Ottawa 67's so he is already familiar with the area.

Here are a few recent clips of his:



 

DaveMatthew

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If Dorion is striking out with re-signing both Zub and Cat and feeling like that won't happen, that could be a reason he would like into it. He's spoken openly now about the difficulty of bring players to a Canadian team, so maybe he's trying to get creative to replace two possible high end players leaving. Those will be huge losses if they come to pass.

With the cap projected to rise, it's also possible that Dorion is not as concerned about the cap hit, but rather actual salary. When it gets to $86M and beyond, we'll spend more, but likely never really to the upper limit.

Karlsson with 25% retention would average $7.2M in actual salary (on an $8.6M cap hit) for the next 4 years. Not quite the sticker shock of $11.5M.
 
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BonHoonLayneCornell

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I think certain posters are peddling that as the main reason as to why so many dont think its a good idea. When in reality its the players age specifically relative to the core of this team its best players are 20 years old, Karlsson is 32. The term of the contract and what they are going to have to pay younger players on this roster to retain them. When you really look at it, its a bad idea if the teams really trying to win a Stanley Cup. It will cost them atleast one of Zub, Sanderson, Debrincat or Pinto from a contract perspective. When this team is ready to compete will Karlsson still be a prime performer? Those players will be.

While the latter isnt the main reason, the impact it could have on the room isnt something to completely look over.

Lastly I think its interesting that so many people want Dorion replaced but trust him in this scenario...

Overall people just need to be more patient in general with this group its very young and hasnt had a new coach yet. Will be interesting to see the impact a new coach will have whenver it does happen.
I think the main point I disagree with is if its purely the age part. These things are not always linear and lots of old guys play in to their twilight years while many young guys don't meet their potential. Yes, odds favor the youth, but there are variables, and it can be just as much of a failure to move on from an aging player that continues performing in favor of a young players that doesn't develop as expected. A 40 year old Gonchar was better than any youngster we threw out there other than 65 and all those other young guys went nowhere. If it affects contracts too much, that makes sense, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with, and in a lot of cases it is actually ideal, to have age gaps like that on your team. You need veterans on a team and it is common practice. We just added Giroux and everyone, including myself, heralded it as a no brainer.

With the cap projected to rise, it's also possible that Dorion is not as concerned about the cap hit, but rather actual salary. When it gets to $86M and beyond, we'll spend more, but likely never really to the upper limit.

Karlsson with 25% retention would average $7.2M in actual salary (on an $8.6M cap hit) for the next 4 years. Not quite the sticker shock of $11.5M.
If we're still considered a budget team, that heavily skews the idea in favor of the Sens, but at this point, I'm assuming those days are gone and the actual salary is less relevant than the cap hit. Or at least I hope thats where we're headed with new ownership.

Just the idea being discussed is refreshing, almost as much as Alfredsson coming back. Melnyk's hatchets are being buried one after another.
 

DaveMatthew

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I think the main point I disagree with is if its purely the age part. These things are not always linear and lots of old guys play in to their twilight years while many young guys don't meet their potential. Yes, odds favor the latter, but there are variables, and it can be just as much of a failure to move on from an aging player that continues performing in favor of a young players that doesn't develop as expected. A 40 year old Gonchar was better than any youngster we threw out there other than 65 and all those other young guys went nowhere. If it affects contracts too much, that makes sense, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with, and in a lot of cases it is actually ideal, to have age gaps like that on your team. You need veterans on a team and it is common practice. We just added Giroux and everyone, including myself, heralded it as a no brainer.


If we're still considered a budget team, that heavily skews the idea in favor of the Sens, but at this point, I'm assuming those days are gone and the actual salary is less relevant than the cap hit. Or at least I hope thats where we're headed with new ownership.

Just the idea being discussed is refreshing, almost as much as Alfredsson coming back. Melnyk's hatchets are being buried one after another.

When Patrick Kane and Jonathan Toews were 19 and 20, the Blackhawks went out and signed 30-year-old Brian Campbell to an 8 year deal and 30-year-old Marian Hossa to a 12 year deal!
 

DaveMatthew

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Haven't seen this posted here:



Lot of Bruins fans on Twitter and HF seem okay with moving Carlo. I thought he was good, but a lot of the comments are saying he's overpaid at $4.1M...
 

Micklebot

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A few more comments on 6'9 220 lbs Stepan Falkovsky:
At 25 years old he is right around the same age that we signed Artem Zub. Also like Zub he plays for SKA. Finally he played for the Ottawa 67's so he is already familiar with the area.

Here are a few recent clips of his:




I'd be down with another KHL signing, but wasn't MacTavish the guy that made Zub happen? I wonder with him gone if we'll go to that well again.
 
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Salva Mea

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whats wrong with carlo ? for me hi was one of the best defensive young player with good contract( maybe perfect :d. 4 m is nothing today) ...

will be huge add go dorion do it
 
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Micklebot

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Haven't seen this posted here:



Lot of Bruins fans on Twitter and HF seem okay with moving Carlo. I thought he was good, but a lot of the comments are saying he's overpaid at $4.1M...

Interesting. I've always liked Carlo, has he regressed? I've only watched the Bruins play us this year.
 
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BonHoonLayneCornell

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When Patrick Kane and Jonathan Toews were 19 and 20, the Blackhawks went out and signed 30-year-old Brian Campbell to an 8 year deal and 30-year-old Marian Hossa to a 12 year deal!
It can make a whole lot of sense in the right situations and it obviously worked out well for them with both of those guys playing big roles.
 

Sens of Anarchy

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Haven't seen this posted here:



Lot of Bruins fans on Twitter and HF seem okay with moving Carlo. I thought he was good, but a lot of the comments are saying he's overpaid at $4.1M...

Bruins looking to get some cap space apparently. Sens were not interested in term before when they were looking. Carlo would be a good addition imo.
 
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sensens

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Haven't seen this posted here:



Lot of Bruins fans on Twitter and HF seem okay with moving Carlo. I thought he was good, but a lot of the comments are saying he's overpaid at $4.1M...


Carlo would be an interesting addition, and effectively round-out the top-4. Not sure what Boston would be seeking in return... presumably one of Bernard-Docker or Thomson.

It's also interesting that Tyson Jost was put on waivers by Minnesota. Just further evidence of how relatively poor that 2016 draft class was, and how relatively lucky the Senators were to avoid having it be a critical part of their rebuild. Consider for a minute that instead of Brady Tkachuk, that #4th overall pick would have got them Jesse Puljujarvi... or that instead of Jake Sanderson, picking the top D-man at #5 would have yielded Olli Juolevi.
 

SensontheRush

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whats wrong with carlo ? for me hi was one of the best defensive young player with good contract( maybe perfect :d. 4 m is nothing today) ...

will be huge add go dorion do it
ALWAYS injured. Doesn't play mean. Is fast though, but maybe that's what is starting to go?
 

Micklebot

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Bruins looking to get some cap space apparently. Sens were not interested in term before when they were looking. Carlo would be a good addition imo.
A right side of Zub, Carlo, Hamonic/JBD, that's seems pretty good imo, but I haven't been watching Carlo this year.
 
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