Proposal: Trade Rumours/Proposals PART XXXXIX

[Hale The Villain]

There are people that actually have connections to Karlsson and other players.

Can’t speak to “off ice disaster” as that’s harsh but I’m not sure that Karlsson is a fit. He doesn’t even enjoy hockey all that much anymore . He’s not a Mark Scheifle that’s for sure

"Connections" almost always being loose associations that provide second or third-hand info that can hardly be described as reliable.

The way some people talk about the locker room you'd think they have their own stall. Most of it is BS.

 

[bicboi64]

If Holden is willing to go to a contender for a draft pick I'm all for it. He's a good vet, but don't see a long term future for him here

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Well, it could be a player on the other team, or it could be a Senators player that vetoed it.

There's only 2 players that have any kind of no trade on the Senators. Holden and Zaitsev have M-NTCs. That "might" limit it a bit from the Senators side, but not necessarily totally rule out that a veto came from a Senators player.

Don’t we know Zaitsev vetoed a deal to Chicago for Murphy

There are people that actually have connections to Karlsson and other players.

Can’t speak to “off ice disaster” as that’s harsh but I’m not sure that Karlsson is a fit. He doesn’t even enjoy hockey all that much anymore . He’s not a Mark Scheifle that’s for sure

Do your connections say he doesn’t enjoy hockey anymore

 

[bert]

The fact that Karlsson is even being talked about is confirmation to me that Alfie is buying part of the team. I don't see why Karlsson would agree to come back otherwise.

It's only happening because fans are emotional that the teams chance at making the playoffs are pretty much done and they're grasping for a morsel of hope. If you look at this team it's age group, salary structure and the assets and cap space it would take to add him it makes very little sense. A bandaid fix that could have huge negative ramifications for when this team is actually ready to compete.

The team isn't as bad as its record and was playing pretty well before its injuries. But now we're getting some pretty wild poorly thought out knee jerk reactions. There's also a few posters romanticize the concept of Erik Karlsson and refuse to look at the entire tenure of his career objectively.

I would also like to make it clear I have a signed Karlsson jersey framed in my basement. He is one of my favorite players the sens have ever had. I don't think he is a bad guy, I think he's like any other person it's not black and white it's grey. He's human, no one's perfect. People have faults they have incredible moments and moments I'm sure they want back. They also mature at different times in their life.

I just dont think its the right fit right now for this team. I could be dead wrong, i sure have been before.

I do hope Alfie is involved though!

 

[bert]

That's a very simplistic view. Jocks gonna jock.

SJ was a dominant team for a very long time, like 15 years. The wheels were bound to fall off sooner or later. This team is missing the swagger Karlsson added and the leadership. Sounds to me like a bunch of players worried about their feelings than worried about winning.

It's a simplistic view because I corrected an opinion that didn't make sense? The year they traded for him they just lost in the second round. His first year there he went TO the WCF.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Do your connections say he doesn’t enjoy hockey anymore

If he doesn't enjoy hockey anymore he's certainly not showing it on the ice.

I'd much rather have that than Scheifele, who couldn't give a rats ass on the ice when he's not in the offensive zone.

 

[Hale The Villain]

It's only happening because fans are emotional that the teams chance at making the playoffs are pretty much done and they're grasping for a morsel of hope. If you look at this team it's age group, salary structure and the assets and cap space it would take to add him it makes very little sense. A bandaid fix that could have huge negative ramifications for when this team is actually ready to compete.

The team isn't as bad as its record and was playing pretty well before its injuries. But now we're getting some pretty wild poorly thought out knee jerk reactions. There's also a few posters romanticize the concept of Erik Karlsson and refuse to look at the entire tenure of his career objectively.

I do hope Alfie is involved though!

No it's happening because:

1. We're desperate for help on defense
2. Karlsson is playing some of the best hockey of his career
3. We need a right-handed defensemen badly and no one else is available
4. He would likely cost less in assets than the alternatives due to his cap hit and NMC

It's by no means a perfect fit and I would only explore the option if the Sharks take on Zaitsev and Joseph + retain salary, but it's not just emotion. It make sense on a number of levels.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

It's only happening because fans are emotional that the teams chance at making the playoffs are pretty much done and they're grasping for a morsel of hope. If you look at this team it's age group, salary structure and the assets and cap space it would take to add him it makes very little sense. A bandaid fix that could have huge negative ramifications for when this team is actually ready to compete.

The team isn't as bad as its record and was playing pretty well before its injuries. But now we're getting some pretty wild poorly thought out knee jerk reactions. There's also a few posters romanticize the concept of Erik Karlsson and refuse to look at the entire tenure of his career objectively.

I do hope Alfie is involved though!

To be fair, it's also because of Karlsson's resurgence this year and last along with the trade talk specifically about him getting traction in general with the Sharks getting that out there with specific quotes from the GM about it being the plan. Not specific to Ottawa much, but comments like Friedman's are bound to spark conversation in Sens land.

These things bleed in to the talk as the team gets less interesting from having another lost season. Many Sens fans are probably not enjoying the games much these days and it leads to talking about the roster of the future, contracts, trades, etc. more than anything else. With our D being as weak as it is and likely needing outside help, that's just another factor that brings it more attention.

I disagree that the guy is cooked and wouldn't fit in here, but that's a debate for another day and mostly pointless.

 

[DaveMatthew]

Never played Jr B in the valley. I did play CIS though? You?

If you think having clique teams works better than ones that get along have at it. I can't agree. Sorry!

Junior B in the valley. CIS is similar. Everyone's what, between 19-23? Nobody has kids or responsibilities beyond getting to 15 hours of classes per week? Everyone is on the same schedule? Everyone loves the bar?

Doesn't work that way in pro sports.

Hell, Marc Methot talked about it a bunch of times on his podcast. When he was with the Sens, there was a group that liked to go for early dinners (him, Ryan, etc). There was another group that like to eat late (Karlsson, Phaneuf, etc). Both groups did their thing on the road. Everyone has their own routine and does what works for them.

I don't think you have a very good grasp on the team concept if you actually believe this. Maybe you're just being stubborn to try and prove your point? I'm not sure. But suggesting that being a shitty teammate has no impact is simply not true. Atleast the people running these NHL organizations don't think so. Or they wouldn't interview players etc.

How did we go from cliques that happen on every single team to "shitty teammate"? Things certainly went off the rails in 17/18, but Karlsson was here for 9 years. Now he was a shitty teammate? Would Kyle Turris, Dion Phaneuf, Daniel Alfredsson or Clarke MacArthur agree with that take? I doubt it.

You seem stuck in those CIS days. The NHL is filled with adults with lives and responsibilities and who come from different cultures, not kids from Ontario looking to have a good time.

Kevin Durant coming out in the media today to say the players on his team suck is being a shitty teammate. Choosing to have dinner at a sushi restaurant with a small group of guys while some others go have steak is not.

Insinuating that one guy in Erik Karlsson is some kind of locker room atom bomb is beyond ridiculous.
He may not be a fit for this team, but it's certainly not for that reason.

 

[Ouroboros]

Whatever GM is dumb enough to take that Rick Karlsson contract off San Jose's hands will likely never work in the league again.

 

[bert]

Junior B in the valley. CIS is similar. Everyone's what, between 19-23? Nobody has kids or responsibilities beyond getting to 15 hours of classes per week? Everyone is on the same schedule? Everyone loves the bar?

Doesn't work that way in pro sports.

Hell, Marc Methot talked about it a bunch of times. When he was with the Sens, there was a group that liked to go for early dinners (him, Ryan, etc). There was another group that like to eat late (Karlsson, Phaneuf, etc). Both groups did their thing on the road.



How did we go from cliques that happen on every single team to "shitty teammate"? Things certainly went off the rails in 17/18, but Karlsson was here for 9 years. Now he was a shitty teammate? Would Kyle Turris, Dion Phaneuf, Daniel Alfredsson or Clarke MacArthur agree with that take? I doubt it.

You seem stuck in those CIS days. The NHL is filled with adults, not kids.

No JR B in the valley and Canadian University hockey are not the same. If you think so have at it but it doesn't speak to your knowledge of the sport. Didn't say Karlsson was specifically a shitty teammate I was responding to your post about how you went on about guys not getting along in the room and it not mattering.

You're going off the rails to try and prove your point. Take a step back, there is nothing that you do here that will impact the Ottawa Senators.

 

[DaveMatthew]

No JR B in the valley and Canadian University hockey are not the same. If you think so have at it but it doesn't speak to your knowledge of the sport. Didn't say Karlsson was specifically a shitty teammate I was responding to your post about how you went on about guys not getting along in the room and it not mattering.

You're going off the rails to try and prove your point. Take a step back, there is nothing that you do here that will impact the Ottawa Senators.

Lol, yeah it basically is. Bunch of kids playing hockey before they have to go get real-life jobs. It's not pro sports.

And no, not everyone has to get along and be buddy buddy. Ever watch the Last Dance? Pay attention to Draymond Green and Kevin Durant? Read about the Red Wings dynasty teams? Hear what's been said about Nathan MacKinnon? Read the quote I just posted from Ian Laperriere?

 

[bert]

Lol, yeah it is. Bunch of kids playing hockey before they have to go get real-life jobs. It's not pro sports, sorry to break it to you.

I can see this situation has you agitated. Have a good one.

P.S going back and editing your post to try and insinuate something I didn't say is pathetic.

 

[DaveMatthew]

I can see this situation has you agitated. Have a good one.

You as well. Go Ravens!

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Whatever GM is dumb enough to take that Rick Karlsson contract off San Jose's hands will likely never work in the league again.

I think the opposite and a GM is gonna look real good soon. I think a team (not us) is gonna swoop in and get a sweetheart of a trade with retention included and thrive with him as a primary contributor.

 

[DaveMatthew]

P.S going back and editing your post to try and insinuate something I didn't say is pathetic.

Huh? What did I edit?

Regardless, it's clear we have differing opinions. I don't think Karlsson would be a terrible teammate nor do I think locker room cliques within a professional sports team are a sign of disaster.

You disagree.

We'll see what happens. I bet Karlsson ends up on a young team like Detroit at a lower cap hit, has a very good end to his career and ends up winning a lot more games.

 

[Big Muddy]

Don’t we know Zaitsev vetoed a deal to Chicago for Murphy

Its possible. I did a quick google search and found that Kevin Francis suggested that. I couldn't find another source, but maybe someone else has.

 

[DaveMatthew]

I think the opposite and a GM is gonna look real good soon. I think a team (not us) is gonna swoop in and get a sweetheart of a trade with retention included and thrive with him as a primary contributor.

Could see him fitting in pretty well in Detroit.

Wouldn't be surprised if Montreal was interested if they could send one of their bad contracts (i.e. Gallagher) back.

 

[Senovision]

Zaitsev and chabot for karlsson and megna ( his d partner in san jose 6'6 tall). But i don't know how good karlsson would be in several years from now.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Could see him fitting in pretty well in Detroit.

Wouldn't be surprised if Montreal was interested if they could send one of their bad contracts (i.e. Gallagher) back.

Ya, Detroit makes a lot of sense. Hope to god it wouldn't be Montreal, blech.

The interesting part is Karlsson's control over his destination that Grier noted. Whoever gets him will likely get him for a song with almost guaranteed retention. If he keeps playing like he has this year and last, it would be a steal.

I've thought Vegas because they can be pretty bold and went after him previously, but I don't see how it would ever work for them cap wise, so that's unlikely.

Personally, beyond Ottawa, I'd like to see him in Calgary or Edmonton, but that's unlikely.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

Zaitsev and chabot for karlsson and megna ( his d partner in san jose 6'6 tall). But i don't know how good karlsson would be in several years from now.

one thing about HoF players is that they mostly play at a high level until very late in their careers. Karlssons severe injuries complicates things but it also stands to reason that the more removed from those injuries he gets the better he will be.

So I think there is a very good chance Karlsson who is HoFer and indisputably one of the best hockey minds in league history will find a way to produce late into his career.

If it is not us I'm hoping Edmonton. McDavid-Draisaitl- Karlsson would be nasty. Karlsson would probably hit 100 points.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Whatever GM is dumb enough to take that Rick Karlsson contract off San Jose's hands will likely never work in the league again.

No team is taking on the full contract, that's for sure.

Question is at what level of retention is EK worth positive value?

Sharks managed to dump Burns' deal by retaining 2.72M. Canes were willing to pay a 3rd and a depth prospect to get 37YR old Burns for 3YRs @ 5.28M.

There's a certain level of retention that would get GMs interested, even with 4YRs left on his deal. I don't think it would require 50% retained either.

 

[Golden_Jet]

No team is taking on the full contract, that's for sure.

Question is at what level of retention is EK worth positive value?

Sharks managed to dump Burns' deal by retaining 2.72M. Canes were willing to pay a 3rd and a depth prospect to get 37YR old Burns for 3YRs @ 5.28M.

There's a certain level of retention that would get GMs interested, even with 4YRs left on his deal. I don't think it would require 50% retained either.

I can’t see SJ retaining that much for that long.

 

[Que]

I think the number is 30%. Which is 4.5 million in retention for a cap hit of 7 million. Anything more than that and San Jose eats too much salary for it to be worth the assets back.

 

[bert]

Huh? What did I edit?

Regardless, it's clear we have differing opinions. I don't think Karlsson would be a terrible teammate nor do I think locker room cliques within a professional sports team are a sign of disaster.

You disagree.

We'll see what happens. I bet Karlsson ends up on a young team like Detroit at a lower cap hit, has a very good end to his career and ends up winning a lot more games.

You keep insinuating that I said he is a terrible teammate. Which I didn't say. From this very page in this thread this is what I posted.

I would also like to make it clear I have a signed Karlsson jersey framed in my basement. He is one of my favorite players the sens have ever had. I don't think he is a bad guy, I think he's like any other person it's not black and white it's grey. He's human, no one's perfect. People have faults they have incredible moments and moments I'm sure they want back. They also mature at different times in their life.

I just dont think its the right fit right now for this team. I could be dead wrong, i sure have been before.

I do hope Alfie is involved though!