Proposal: Trade Rumours/Proposals PART XXXXIX

[Hale The Villain]

If 5 years for a 25 year old at a reasonable salary "scared them off", it's just another reason to really question the Dorion/DJ regime.

I hope that's not the case, but I guess it wouldn't surprise me if it was.

Worst pro scouting group in the league strikes again.

 

[Micklebot]

If 5 years for a 25 year old at a reasonable salary "scared them off", it's just another reason to really question the Dorion/DJ regime.

I hope that's not the case, but I guess it wouldn't surprise me if it was.

Well they also might not have thought as highly of him, in the end, it seems like a miss on our end in retrospect, he was the guy I wanted, but the team seemed to be targeting different types of guys. Weegar, Klingberg, Burns and Chychrun are all more offensive guys.

My only real point here is it's not really fair to assume we got outbid when Garrioch suggested we may not have been as interested and our other targets all fit a different mold

 

[Hale The Villain]

Well they also might not have thought as highly of him, in the end, it seems like a miss on our end in retrospect, he was the guy I wanted, but the team seemed to be targeting different types of guys. Weegar, Klingberg, Burns and Chychrun are all more offensive guys.

My only real point here is it's not really fair to assume we got outbid when Garrioch suggested we may not have been as interested and our other targets all fit a different mold

The Sens pro scouting staff has shown repeatedly they have no idea what they are doing, particularly when it comes to acquiring quality defensemen, so it should be no surprise they weren't as interested in Marino as they should have been.

Huge missed opportunity to fix our D. Top 4 defensive RD is the biggest need for this team and the hardest position to find in this league.

 

[Micklebot]

The Sens pro scouting staff has shown repeatedly they have no idea what they are doing, particularly when it comes to acquiring quality defensemen, so it should be no surprise they weren't as interested in Marino as they should have been.

Huge missed opportunity to fix our D. Top 4 defensive RD is the biggest need for this team and the hardest position to find in this league.

Marino has played well but at the same time, I think he's going to regress a bit in terms of production. Jersey had one of the softest schedules to start the year and he's benefited from a really high on ice sh%. He'd still look good but I think after 82 games the hype will die down a bit.

 

[aragorn]

I think this yr they are going to give JBD first a shot at making this team & Thomson afterwards. Both are first rd picks which they invested a lot of time & money into & at some point they need to find out if these two guys can make it or not. They have 3 defencemen who are UFAs right now & Zaitsev has another yr left but they need to move on from.

If they can insert JBD & Thomson into their lineup for Holden & Hamonic next yr that saves them some money to sign Zub. JBD brings an element of good defensive shutdown ability & Thomson gives them a little more offence with a booming shot from the point. It might work & it might not & if it does not then they will need to make a trade, but this is the yr to find out IMO if these two fit in for next season.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Marino has played well but at the same time, I think he's going to regress a bit in terms of production. Jersey had one of the softest schedules to start the year and he's benefited from a really high on ice sh%. He'd still look good but I think after 82 games the hype will die down a bit.

Offense isn't what makes him valuable, it's his smart defensive game. He's kind of like their Zub.

 

[Big Muddy]

The idea that the term was too long for Marino was weird when I first heard it, and it still mystifies me now. I keep looking for some kind of rationale for this & wonder if could be connected to new ownership in that they don't want any older players getting long term contracts. I realize that's a stretch but that's what happens when you have a suspicious mind that tries to make sense of things. Oh well.

 

[bicboi64]

The idea that the term was too long for Marino was weird when I first heard it, and it still mystifies me now. I keep looking for some kind of rationale for this & wonder if could be connected to new ownership in that they don't want any older players getting long term contracts.

As nice as it was getting Giroux and Cat, management's potential rationale is why I don't have faith in them. If they think Marino had too much term, they're kinda dumb. If they think Marino isn't a top4 dman, they're also kind of dumb. Only situation in which they don't appear inept at pro scouting is if Pens wanted Ty Smith more than anything we could offer.

 

[Big Muddy]

As nice as it was getting Giroux and Cat, management's potential rationale is why I don't have faith in them. If they think Marino had too much term, they're kinda dumb. If they think Marino isn't a top4 dman, they're also kind of dumb. Only situation in which they don't appear inept at pro scouting is if Pens wanted Ty Smith more than anything we could offer.

Well, one thing that intrigues me is that they went after Debrincat who had a very short one year term plus a qualifying year which is very expensive. You'd think they'd be more concerned about how short ADB's term was if they were really high on the guy and thought he could help the team. With my suspicious mind at work, it makes me think that they were just positioning the team for a sale & that's the reason behind all these player moves.

Taking this hypothesis one step further, I wonder if Bettman hasn't had his favorite billionaire all lined for some time but has to appease the Melnyk's wishes to put it out for bid and get the highest price on the sale. Hence, the idea would be not to make too many big commitments this year which would allow the new owners to do what they want.

 

[Que]

Three thoughts;

I still think Marino didn’t want to play here so they brushed it off politely and quietly.

We play Tyler Myers tonight against Vancouver so it’s a good chance to scout him.

Sometimes I get this weird feeling we’re going to trade for EK…

 

[Micklebot]

As nice as it was getting Giroux and Cat, management's potential rationale is why I don't have faith in them. If they think Marino had too much term, they're kinda dumb. If they think Marino isn't a top4 dman, they're also kind of dumb. Only situation in which they don't appear inept at pro scouting is if Pens wanted Ty Smith more than anything we could offer.

I think it's more nuanced than that.

If we want Zub long term, and think JBD and Thomson both have top 4 potential that exceeds Marino, but will probably be ready for that role in 2024-25, then you have a situation were a shorter term might be better for a team that's budget conscious.

Personally, I'm of the opinion that you can generally move a RHD later if it comes to that, but they might be fun shy with how Zaitsev turned out (they probably should have known z would suck but I digress)

It's interesting, because at the same age, an argument can be made going into the season both Thomson and JBD had shown more than Marino. The team is probably higher on our prospects than fans are.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Three thoughts;

I still think Marino didn’t want to play here so they brushed it off politely and quietly.

Marino has a 5 year contract with no trade protection. He had no choice on where he could be traded and his thoughts on the matter don't mean squat.

If he had a 1 year contract and we were hoping to re-sign him like with DeBrincat, obviously his views on playing in Ottawa become very important as to whether to pull the trigger and acquire him, but that's not the case here.

 

[Micklebot]

, it makes me think that they were just positioning the team for a sale & that's the reason behind all these player moves.

That's a good point, bringing in long term contracts and potential sale don't typically mix. Obviously with Tkachuck, Norris and Stü it's a bit different given their age,

 

[Micklebot]

Marino has a 5 year contract with no trade protection. He had no choice on where he could be traded and his thoughts on the matter don't mean squat.

I mean, the team is big on the importance of the room, he may not have a choice, but bringing in guys that don't want to be here isn't likely high on the teams to do list.

 

[Hale The Villain]

I mean, the team is big on the importance of the room, he may not have a choice, but bringing in guys that don't want to be here isn't likely high on the teams to do list.

DeBrincat probably wasn't happy that of all the teams he could have went to he got traded to Ottawa, same goes for Talbot.

We can't only trade for players that want to play in Ottawa over all other teams. Number of possible targets could be counted on two hands if that were the case.

If Marino wanted to dictate where he played he would have negotiated a NTC and gave up some money to do so. He didn't do that, so he has no say on where he makes his $4,400,000/year.

 

[Big Muddy]

That's a good point, bringing in long term contracts and potential sale don't typically mix. Obviously with Tkachuck, Norris and Stü it's a bit different given their age,

I think Bettman has got a lot of initial meetings and leg work done and has some ideas on who he sees as the next potential owner. So, advice from Bettman to the Menyks and the current board could have been don't do any longer term deals with older players and give them more of a clean slate to work with. At the same time, he has to work with Melnyk's to allow time for them to mourn their father's death, to sort through what they want, and to try to get a fair market deal for them.

 

[Micklebot]

DeBrincat probably wasn't happy that of all the teams he could have went to he got traded to Ottawa, same goes for Talbot.

There's a distinction between actively not wanting to be here and having preferences. If he fell into the former, that's probably not your ideal target.

We can't only trade for players that want to play in Ottawa over all other teams. Number of possible targets could be counted on two hands if that were the case.

Nobody suggested that, see my above point. But if you pick up guys that you know will want out from day one you probably won't get their best while they're here.

If Marino wanted to dictate where he played he would have negotiated a NTC and gave up some money to do so. He didn't do that, so he has no say on where he makes his $4,400,000/year.

Marino couldn't just negotiate a NTC, he wasn't eligible for one until 2024, at which point the NTC that he did negotiate kicks in.

 

[Golden_Jet]

If Marino wanted to dictate where he played he would have negotiated a NTC and gave up some money to do so. He didn't do that, so he has no say on where he makes his $4,400,000/year.

Because he couldn’t negotiate one yet.

 

[DaveMatthew]

There's a distinction between actively not wanting to be here and having preferences. If he fell into the former, that's probably not your ideal target.

From what DeBrincat said, he was surprised by the trade and had not spoken to either Ottawa or Chicago management before he got the news. He saw the rumors but wasn't expecting it to actually happen.

So if they didn't reach out DeBrincat about whether he wanted to play here before pulling the trigger, I doubt they (or Pittsburgh) asked Marino.

 

[Micklebot]

From what DeBrincat said, he was surprised by the trade and had not spoken to either Ottawa or Chicago management before he got the news. He saw the rumors but wasn't expecting it to actually happen.

So if they didn't reach out DeBrincat about whether he wanted to play here before pulling the trigger, I doubt they (or Pittsburgh) asked Marino.

You might be right, though I think the DeBrincat situation is a bit different because it needed to be done prior to the draft and was a chance meeting.

The premise that Marino didn't want to play here is entirely speculative, I don't really have an opinion on that tbh, I just think the idea that even if he didn't want to be here it doesn't matter since he didn't have a choice isn't realistic. If we know a guy really doesn't want to be here, it could certainly be taken into consideration when deciding to trade for him or not, just my opinion though.

 

[DaveMatthew]

You might be right, though I think the DeBrincat situation is a bit different because it needed to be done prior to the draft and was a chance meeting.

The premise that Marino didn't want to play here is entirely speculative, I don't really have an opinion on that tbh, I just think the idea that even if he didn't want to be here it doesn't matter since he didn't have a choice isn't realistic. If we know a guy really doesn't want to be here, it could certainly be taken into consideration when deciding to trade for him or not, just my opinion though.

Out of all the scenarios (Pittsburgh didn't value what we could offer, Ottawa didn't want to take on a 5 year commitment), Marino not wanting to be here is probably the least likely.

Someone used Edmonton trading him for a 6th rounder to suggest that he didn't want to be in Canada, but at the time, he wasn't exactly expected to be all that good. In January 2018, 6 months before he was traded, Scott Wheeler at the Athletic had him ranked as the Oilers' 11th best prospect, behind the likes of Ostap Safin, Aapeli Rasanen, Dmitri Samorukov and Kirill Maksimov.

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

Maybe they didn't want to trade for Marino because he's still pissed that Brady kicked the shit out of him.

 

[bicboi64]

Can we try getting Myers off the Canucks? Offer them Zaitsev so they get some cap savings (the Aquilin's are cheap bastards), throw in a draft pick, and literally have Myers wear a face cage and lie down in front of the net, the puck will hit him and we won't have to worry about our players losing positioning on the puck. Plus he can log 20 minutes of ice time that I don't trust Brannstrom, Hamonic, Holden or Zaitsev to have

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Can we try getting Myers off the Canucks? Offer them Zaitsev so they get some cap savings (the Aquilin's are cheap bastards), throw in a draft pick, and literally have Myers wear a face cage and lie down in front of the net, the puck will hit him and we won't have to worry about our players losing positioning on the puck. Plus he can log 20 minutes of ice time that I don't trust Brannstrom, Hamonic, Holden or Zaitsev to have

I think if we had Myers you would no longer trust him with those minutes

 

[BUCKLE UP]

Can we try getting Myers off the Canucks? Offer them Zaitsev so they get some cap savings (the Aquilin's are cheap bastards), throw in a draft pick, and literally have Myers wear a face cage and lie down in front of the net, the puck will hit him and we won't have to worry about our players losing positioning on the puck. Plus he can log 20 minutes of ice time that I don't trust Brannstrom, Hamonic, Holden or Zaitsev to have

Myers is just as bad as Zaitsev