Proposal: Trade Rumours/Proposals PART XXXXIX

[NyQuil]

His inability to release a shot quickly has been around since forever. I mean he has got to know that that second or two that he holds onto the puck either gets blocked/deflected or turned over. How has he not figured this out by now?

His puck handling in tight spaces isn't as good as he thinks it is - as a result, you are starting to see the opposition fail to give him respect on the blueline the way they tend to back off Stutzle (who admittedly is an all-world talent in that respect).

His shot is non-existent. His passing is average at best in terms of hitting guys in the wheelhouse for one-timers.

His only real noteworthy skill is his skating, which is limited to some extent by his responsibilities at the top of the umbrella, but he can sort of do that inside - outside move, going around one guy and ending up in the top of the circles or high slot.

If he misses the net though, we often don't have a defenceman back.

All in all, he has not been a value-add to the PP this season.

 

[God Says No]

at the very least bring back demelo. Not a top 4 dman per say but we know he fits with Chabot

Chabot-Demelo
Sanderson-Zub
Brannstrom-Holden/Hamonic

God damn what a mistake in letting Demelo go. Him and Chabot gelled so well and from all reports he's been great in WIN. Another example of the org shooting itself in the foot.

 

[Big Muddy]

Is Mayfield even available? Why would NYI trade him?

Well, I poked around a bit with Islander fans to see what feedback they gave. It seems that the Islanders biggest current need is for a bonafide, scoring top 6 winger. They thought that the only way that Mayfield was likely to be available in the summer is if he was looking for a huge and/or unreasonable contract. He was also described as a 2nd/3rd pair tweener versus an outright good, 2nd pair defender. So, there's some info fwiw.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

Mayfield would improve our right side but I don't even know for certain that he'd play above Hamonic. Adding him would leave us with our entire right side (besides JBD... and Zaitsev...) requiring a new contract at the end of the year.

Don't think it's a great fit given what the price would be

 

[Alf Silfversson]

God damn what a mistake in letting Demelo go. Him and Chabot gelled so well and from all reports he's been great in WIN. Another example of the org shooting itself in the foot.

I thought Demelo played well here and it would have been wise to keep him for a while at least, but I think Chabot looking so good back then had more to do with Boucher. Chabot seemed to have a comfort level with his structure that he can't seem to find (consistently at least) with DJ at the helm.

 

[Alf Silfversson]

Mayfield would improve our right side but I don't even know for certain that he'd play above Hamonic. Adding him would leave us with our entire right side (besides JBD... and Zaitsev...) requiring a new contract at the end of the year.

Don't think it's a great fit given what the price would be

I agree. I think Mayfield is pretty similar to Hamonic in terms of effectiveness.

To me I think he'd be a good fit to replace Hamonic after this season.

Whether we have Mayfield or Hamonic it's pretty obvious that our D needs two things:

1) re-sign Zub
2) find an upgrade on the 2RD spot currently held by Hamonic

Chabot - Zub
Sanderson - Severson (example)
Brannstrom - Mayfield/Hamonic
Holden

That is starting to look pretty decent. Provided Chabot pulls his head out of course.

 

[Cosmix]

Unfortunately I think Hamonic and his 3.25M salary may be a reason Marino isn't a Senator right now.

We probably couldn't afford to add Marino's salary without dumping Zaitsev, which Pittsburgh couldn't afford.

Wouldn't have had to dump Zaitsev if we hadn't jumped the gun and traded for Hamonic before the off-season.

It's probably why there was a lot more smoke about Chychrun even though Marino would have been a better fit - AZ was willing to take on Zaitsev.

Dorion deserves derision.

 

[Alex1234]

Mayfield would improve our right side but I don't even know for certain that he'd play above Hamonic. Adding him would leave us with our entire right side (besides JBD... and Zaitsev...) requiring a new contract at the end of the year.

Don't think it's a great fit given what the price would be

Imagine the price for Dumba, Severson etc

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

Unfortunately I think Hamonic and his 3.25M salary may be a reason Marino isn't a Senator right now.

We probably couldn't afford to add Marino's salary without dumping Zaitsev, which Pittsburgh couldn't afford.

Wouldn't have had to dump Zaitsev if we hadn't jumped the gun and traded for Hamonic before the off-season.

It's probably why there was a lot more smoke about Chychrun even though Marino would have been a better fit - AZ was willing to take on Zaitsev.

No, Marino isn't a Senator because we didn't have a better piece to offer than Ty Smith. This isn't NHL23, teams aren't just looking to extract the most value. Smith filled a need for them and that's why Marino is a Devil.

 

[OD99]

It's entirely possible that NJ had more to offer than we did to acquire Marino. It's also possible that Bowness wasn't positive on Marino. It's also entirely possible that the team felt Marino wasn't going to really move the yardsticks

All this talk that Dorion needs to improve the D. The biggest thing that Dorion could do to improve our D is sit down with Thomas Chabot and have a heart to heart.

PD - do you like playing in Ottawa Thomas and do you want to stay?
TC - ya I like it here, think we can win
PD - well Thomas, we're not winning and you're one of the biggest reasons why. You need to figure it out. Quickly. You watching Jake? Do you see how he might be our best D by Christmas? If Jake is our best defensive LD in the New Year and there's not much difference between you and Brannstrom on the PP, I can't keep an 8M D man around. That money is better spent elsewhere. So you think about it and see what you can do to elevate your game to match your paycheque.

That conversation might improve the team a hell of a lot more than upgrading Zaitsev

That would truly be the beginning of the end.

 

[Micklebot]

No, Marino isn't a Senator because we didn't have a better piece to offer than Ty Smith. This isn't NHL23, teams aren't just looking to extract the most value. Smith filled a need for them and that's why Marino is a Devil.

Didn't we hear that we just weren't interested because of his term from Garrioch? I mean, maybe that's just PR speak for our offer got beat, but I think it's unfair to assume one way or another based of what amounts to nothing more than speculation.

I think it's equally likely we weren't willing to pull the trigger on what it would take because we coveted other options more, NJ made their offer and Pens didn't want to wait for us to strike out on Chychrun, Weegar, Burns ect before closing the trade.

 

[bicboi64]

Ugh seeing DeMelo's name is frustrating. Really wished we had offered him 4-5 years at $3.5-$4 million. We're literally looking for a dman like him right now and at the time of the trade, he was our best RD.

The issue isn't one DJ's coaching or the top players not performing, its both. If we acquire a top 4 defender, DJ sure as heck better use em well and still not give Chabot so much ice time. Having said that, we need an upgrade on the right side

 

[JD1]

I mean, I played sports, not at this kind of competitive level.

My father would keep a running tab of all the mistakes I made in the game, and bring them up on the ride home. He's a great guy, but not a very positive sports fan. He knows it, and he's much better with his grandchildren.

The reality is that I remembered every single one of them even before they were brought up. No one was more aware of my own issues with my play than me.

I don't think Chabot believes he's playing very well right now.

The real question is why? Is it a slump? Is it some kind of nagging injury? Is it the minutes?

I don't buy the partner excuse because a lot of his issues are when he is controlling the puck which has nothing to do with Zaitsev or Zub or whoever.

All players go through stretches of rough play - it's particularly bad at the beginning of the season when it's the only sample of play for the year thus far.

I think the solution is to reduce his minutes and responsibilities until he shows signs of improvement. I know the talking heads on the broadcast the other day were incredulous that Chabot wasn't out for the PP but he's not adding anything and until he shows signs of doing so, it should be someone else's job.

I was obviously being facetious with the chat language I used. Facetiousness aside, the biggest thing we can do to improve our D short term is get Chabot playing like an 8m dollar player.

I completely agree his mistakes are not attributable to his D partner. He's just not playing well with the puck on his stick. Who knows why?

I laughed at your dad comment. My dad was exactly like that.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

Didn't we hear that we just weren't interested because of his term from Garrioch? I mean, maybe that's just PR speak for our offer got beat, but I think it's unfair to assume one way or another based of what amounts to nothing more than speculation.

I think it's equally likely we weren't willing to pull the trigger on what it would take because we coveted other options more, NJ made their offer and Pens didn't want to wait for us to strike out on Chychrun, Weegar, Burns ect before closing the trade.

That's a possibility, but I don't think it changes the fact that Smith is a very specific type of player, and one that we don't have to give - an NHL proven & waiver eligible D.

 

[DaveMatthew]

Didn't we hear that we just weren't interested because of his term from Garrioch? I mean, maybe that's just PR speak for our offer got beat, but I think it's unfair to assume one way or another based of what amounts to nothing more than speculation.

I think it's equally likely we weren't willing to pull the trigger on what it would take because we coveted other options more, NJ made their offer and Pens didn't want to wait for us to strike out on Chychrun, Weegar, Burns ect before closing the trade.

Burns was traded before Marino.
Weegar was traded 6 days later, but it's unlikely to think that we were ever in the running considering the Panthers wanted to move him for someone who could be an impact NHL player on their roster.

Dorion is in a tough spot.

The best NHL piece we have is embroiled in a major scandal and our young assets with value are ones we don't want to move (Pinto, Sanderson, Greig, 2023 1st)

The pieces that we do have that we'd likely be willing to trade (Brannstrom, JBD, Thomson, Sokolov) aren't all that attractive to other teams.

 

[bicboi64]

The pieces that we do have that we'd likely be willing to trade (Brannstrom, JBD, Thomson, Sokolov) aren't all that attractive to other teams.

I feel like Boucher, Sokolov, Jarventie, and Ostapchuk can be involved in a package with a pick or two to get a conversation going with teams

 

[Xspyrit]

A good trade would be Dylan DeMelo for a 3rd round pick!

I mean it really depends on whats happening with Chabot. If he was playing up to his capabilities were probalby not even talking about needing a top 4 d man. The 2nd pair has been good. Its been the first pair that is the largest reason for this teams losing record. The coaching staff isnt playing for him. Its a cop out. Be honest in your evaluations when you're watching the games. He is blowing coverage, getting beat, turning pucks over. Running around in his own end, flubbing passes missing passes.

Yes, Chabot is not playing up to his standards right now but the team as a whole is a mess away from the puck (and well, with the puck too). It is more of symptom than an illness. And it's been like that for a while, eventually players figure it out but I truly believe this coaching staff is not capable of implementing good defensive hockey systems at the NHL level. A lot of worse defense corps have done or are doing better

 

[DaveMatthew]

I feel like Boucher, Sokolov, Jarventie, and Ostapchuk can be involved in a package with a pick or two to get a conversation going with teams

Yeah put those aren't premium assets. Not for the type of player we're talking about. They'd have to be the 2nd or 3rd piece in a trade.

 

[Micklebot]

Burns was traded before Marino.
Weegar was traded 6 days later, but it's unlikely to think that we were ever in the running considering the Panthers wanted to move him for someone who could be an impact NHL player on their roster.

Dorion is in a tough spot.

The best NHL piece we have is embroiled in a major scandal and our young assets with value are ones we don't want to move (Pinto, Sanderson, Greig, 2023 1st)

The pieces that we do have that we'd likely be willing to trade (Brannstrom, JBD, Thomson, Sokolov) aren't all that attractive to other teams.

Fair enough about Burns, but my point stands, we may have had Marino low on our list of options, we aren't going to pull the trigger until we've exausted the targets we prefer because we can't make it work for both. I'm not sure it's fair to say we were there yet, I think we were likely still focused on Chychrun to be honest.

So if Pens came to us and said they wanted Thomson and a 2nd rd pick to bridge the difference between Ty Smith and Thomson, or Brannstrom and a 2nd to make up for the waiver eligibility, we'd may very well tell them we aren't ready to make that move yet.

Right now we only know NJ offered them something they accepted, we don't know what we would have offered, or if the pens might have had something in mind from us they covered. We also have Garrioch saying we were the ones with cold feet.

 

[DaveMatthew]

Fair enough about Burns, but my point stands, we may have had Marino low on our list of options, we aren't going to pull the trigger until we've exausted the targets we prefer because we can't make it work for both. I'm not sure it's fair to say we were there yet, I think we were likely still focused on Chychrun to be honest.

So if Pens came to us and said they wanted Thomson and a 2nd rd pick to bridge the difference between Ty Smith and Thomson, or Brannstrom and a 2nd to make up for the waiver eligibility, we'd may very well tell them we aren't ready to make that move yet.

Right now we only know NJ offered them something they accepted, we don't know what we would have offered, or if the pens might have had something in mind from us they covered. We also have Garrioch saying we were the ones with cold feet.

Yeah, maybe. It’s equally plausible that the Pens liked Smith more than Thomson, Brannstrom and JBD and didn’t want a 2nd round pick to bridge the gap. Maybe they project Smith as a future top 4 for them and didn’t see our guys as that.

Plus, the Pens had 7 defenseman on 1-way deals. I don't think a 2nd would have made up for waiver eligibility (in the case of Brannstrom).

I don’t remember Garrioch ever saying we pulled out on Marino. All he said was that we “kicked tires” from what I can recall.

 

[bicboi64]

Fair enough about Burns, but my point stands, we may have had Marino low on our list of options, we aren't going to pull the trigger until we've exausted the targets we prefer because we can't make it work for both. I'm not sure it's fair to say we were there yet, I think we were likely still focused on Chychrun to be honest.

On a side note, if management is targeting a guy like Chychrun over other defenders that are better defensively, I really hope new ownership has better vision. Chychrun is a good top 4 defender and would make our team better, but he has defensive issues that might be exposed in our system long term.

 

[Joeyjoejoe]

Wonder if we can flip one of our goalies for a NJ dman.

 

[Micklebot]

Yeah, maybe. It’s equally plausible that the Pens liked Smith more than Thomson, Brannstrom and JBD and didn’t want a 2nd round pick to bridge the gap. Maybe they project Smith as a future top 4 for them and didn’t see our guys as that.

Plus, the Pens had 7 defenseman on 1-way deals. I don't think a 2nd would have made up for waiver eligibility (in the case of Brannstrom).

I don’t remember Garrioch ever saying we pulled out on Marino. All he said was that we “kicked tires” from what I can recall.

I was able to find this, it's Senschip paraphrasing Garrioch

Earlier today, one potential target was crossed off the list. John Marino had been linked to the Senators in the rumour mill but he’s on his way to the New Jersey Devils. Although for what it’s worth, it sounds like he was fairly low on their list of options. The link to Ryan Bowness makes sense but according to Bruce Garrioch, the long-term deal scared them off a little bit.

There's also some stuff from before where Garrioch speculates that the term might scare them off,

Earlier today, one potential target was crossed off the list. John Marino had been linked to the Senators in the rumour mill but he’s on his way to the New Jersey Devils. Although for what it’s worth, it sounds like he was fairly low on their list of options. The link to Ryan Bowness makes sense but according to Bruce Garrioch, the long-term deal scared them off a little bit.

 

[God Says No]

I thought Demelo played well here and it would have been wise to keep him for a while at least, but I think Chabot looking so good back then had more to do with Boucher. Chabot seemed to have a comfort level with his structure that he can't seem to find (consistently at least) with DJ at the helm.

Well Demelo made every pair better. Him and Boro looked good too. He had a calming effect and elevated any pair he was on. I'm not sure why we didn't even try to sign him. Weird move that we're still feeling the ramifications from. Sure Boucher was a factor, but not as much as you make it out to be. I'd wager he'd look good under DJ as well. He's been playing really well in WIN and they are not looking to deal him at all.

 

[DaveMatthew]

I was able to find this, it's Senschip paraphrasing Garrioch



There's also some stuff from before where Garrioch speculates that the term might scare them off,

If 5 years for a 25 year old at a reasonable salary "scared them off", it's just another reason to really question the Dorion/DJ regime.

I hope that's not the case, but I guess it wouldn't surprise me if it was.