Proposal: Trade Rumours/Proposals PART XXXXIX

[Gil Gunderson]

Ethan Bear could be a good target, especially if Zub walks, but there doesn't seem to be any smoke about Ottawa being interested.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Ugh Marino would have been perfect. Been real good for NJ apparently.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

Doesn’t look like Zub is a very high priority. Signing RFA’s is great, but we’re screwed without Zub.

 

[Micklebot]

Doesn’t look like Zub is a very high priority. Signing RFA’s is great, but we’re screwed without Zub.

Weird tweet. Friedman isn't reporting anything, he's speculating.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

Weird tweet. Friedman isn't reporting anything, he's speculating.

I don’t think he would put it out there without some sort of knowledge of the situation. This is days after Chris Johnston said the two sides (Pierre abd Zub) haven’t yet engaged in actual negotiations too.

 

[Micklebot]

I don’t think he would put it out there without some sort of knowledge of the situation. This is days after Chris Johnston said the two sides (Pierre abd Zub) haven’t yet engaged in actual negotiations too.

I mean, he's likely heard similar stuff to what Chris Johnston has and is speculating on the obvious potential hold up. We might also be waiting till a clearer picture of what the cap will be.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Sounds like we may not have the money to re-sign both DeBrincat and Zub, which isn't that surprising.

If it comes down to it I'd much rather we re-sign Zub and trade DeBrincat for assets than sign DeBrincat and let Zub walk for nothing.

Be smart Pierre. Need to understand this team has plenty of offense. Can't have the only top 4 RD on the roster walk for nothing.

 

[Yak]

We will sign both Zub and the Cat! We have space for both! Pierre can structure them so pay less early and more towards backend when cap goes up and we have dead contracts off the books.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

It would be tight but it's still very possible to sign Cat and Zub for 9 mil and 5 mil respectively and fit under the cap. Obviously Zaitsev will need to be moved and guys like Motte, Watson, Talbot will need to be replaced with ELC's. Pinto will most likely get bridged.

On top everything being speculated, the fact that Dorion was trying to trade for Chychrun/Marino and sign Debrincat leads me to believe he's just not very high on re-signing Zub and wants someone more cost-controlled.

 

[PlayOn]

It would be tight but it's still very possible to sign Cat and Zub for 9 mil and 5 mil respectively and fit under the cap. Obviously Zaitsev will need to be moved and guys like Motte, Watson, Talbot will need to be replaced with ELC's. Pinto will most likely get bridged.

On top everything being speculated, the fact that Dorion was trying to trade for Chychrun and sign Debrincat leads me to believe he's just not very high on Zub for whatever reason.

Not necessarily. I’d assume a Chychrun trade would have Zaitsev going the other way and without it we can’t guarantee he’s moveable although you’d think he would be after the signing bonus. But that might be the issue bc if we can’t unload Zaitsev it’s going to be really difficult to keep both Zub and DeBrincat.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

Not necessarily. I’d assume a Chychrun trade would have Zaitsev going the other way and without it we can’t guarantee he’s moveable although you’d think he would be after the signing bonus. But that might be the issue bc if we can’t unload Zaitsev it’s going to be really difficult to keep both Zub and DeBrincat.

This is with Zaitsev gone. Even with his contract gone, it's basically impossible to keep all of Debrincat, Zub, and Chychrun under an 83.5 mil cap, unless something significant is getting shipped out to make room.

The dead cap and buyouts are going to hurt us next season, but it should be good after that.

 

[Yak]

This is with Zaitsev gone. Even with his contract gone, it's basically impossible to keep all of Debrincat, Zub, and Chychrun under an 83.5 mil cap, unless something significant is getting shipped out to make room.

I am no cap expert but with Harmonic, Holden, Watson either out or on league mins will help. Plus what's coming off the books and some proper cap management of the structure of their extensions Dorion should be able to make it happen.

We also don't know what will happen with Talbot, Forms, Zaitsev ect....

Anyhow hopefully Pierre can get it done.

I am sad that Norris is probably done for the season.

However injuries are part of the game. Let's enjoy this season and not worry about the numbers that's what they pay Pierre for!

Cheers!

 

[Alex1234]

We will sign both Zub and the Cat! We have space for both! Pierre can structure them so pay less early and more towards backend when cap goes up and we have dead contracts off the books.

And if it means letting go of Formenton , Hamonic , Holden ,Watson and Gambrell so be it
Can be replaced by ELCs
Cat and Zub are gems

 

[PlayOn]

This is with Zaitsev gone. Even with his contract gone, it's basically impossible to keep all of Debrincat, Zub, and Chychrun under an 83.5 mil cap, unless something significant is getting shipped out to make room.

But we don’t know that Zaitsev can be moved. And we don’t know what the cap will be, if it’s 86.5 like they said was possible, it opens up more flexibility. I think that’s the point though, there are so many unknowns that they likely want clarity on, and then as they get closer to that they can start seriously negotiating.

 

[UglyPuckling]

We will sign both Zub and the Cat! We have space for both! Pierre can structure them so pay less early and more towards backend when cap goes up and we have dead contracts off the books.

Cap compliance is based on the AAV versus actual dollars paid to the player in a given year. If its a $83.5 m cap, its the total AAVs that Dorion will need to deal with.

It would be tight but it's still very possible to sign Cat and Zub for 9 mil and 5 mil respectively and fit under the cap. Obviously Zaitsev will need to be moved and guys like Motte, Watson, Talbot will need to be replaced with ELC's. Pinto will most likely get bridged.

On top everything being speculated, the fact that Dorion was trying to trade for Chychrun/Marino and sign Debrincat leads me to believe he's just not very high on re-signing Zub and wants someone more cost-controlled.

Yes, it's very tight (keep reading, and you'll see). I followed all your suggestions - see spreadsheet below (2023-24). Zaitsev has been removed. In addition to the things you mentioned, I also needed to jettison Joseph and there was no room for Formenton either (not on Senators roster/payroll currently anyhow). Pinto was a bridge at $3m (could be light). There's no allowance for performance bonuses either, so there'd be implications for the 2024-25 cap. This is based on a $83.5 m cap ceiling. Ther league is going to have to tell teams what the cap will be soon so teams can plan.

 

[IranCondraAffair]

Cap compliance is based on the AAV versus actual dollars paid to the player in a given year. If its a $83.5 m cap, its the total AAVs that Dorion will need to deal with.

Yes, it's very tight (keep reading, and you'll see). I followed all your suggestions - see spreadsheet below (2023-24). Zaitsev has been removed. In addition to the things you mentioned, I also needed to jettison Joseph and there was no room for Formenton either (not on Senators roster/payroll currently anyhow). Pinto was a bridge at $3m (could be light). There's no allowance for performance bonuses either, so there'd be implications for the 2024-25 cap. This is based on a $83.5 m cap ceiling. Ther league is going to have to tell teams what the cap will be soon so teams can plan.

View attachment 599305

I had a slightly different number for Pinto. I had the Mark stone extension 3X3.5 assuming he deserves it.

I had Brannstrom at 1.5X1, Formenton on a 2X1.6M. I also had Debrincat at 9 but I had Zub at 4.5, I don't see us going after Chychrun. He was pretty bad in his one season as a RHD. Why risk it along with the assets? We're already going to have to spend something to dump Zaitsev's last year.

Personally, I'm in favor of giving Hamnoic or Holden a 1 year extension if they're cheap enough 1.3-1.5M or so.

I had us at 82.97M, so it would be tight.

Only one I'm really unsure of is Formenton. Anything we can save on Debrincat, Brannstrom, Formenton, etc.. could make it a lot easier to retain Zub under an 83.5M cap.

Obviously if the cap ends up at 86.5M we're probably golden.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

Pinto might very well get a 6m+ contract. He is really good and gets regular pp time.

 

[dumbdick]

How crazy is it that we're talking about how to get under the cap these days?

We might soon find ourselves having to trade away a star player from the top of the roster to re-distribute some cash to the youth coming up.

If it comes down to that, who would you move?

 

[Burrowsaurus]

How crazy is it that we're talking about how to get under the cap these days?

We might soon find ourselves having to trade away a star player from the top of the roster to re-distribute some cash to the youth coming up.

If it comes down to that, who would you move?

The top of our roster is very young. Much better than any youth coming up. Zaitsev 4.5 is coming off the books. Giroux 6.5 is coming off the books soon(ish). It’s the youth coming up that will likely be traded for assets that will be ready after our contracts are up

 

[UglyPuckling]

I had a slightly different number for Pinto. I had the Mark stone extension 3X3.5 assuming he deserves it.

I had Brannstrom at 1.5X1, Formenton on a 2X1.6M. I also had Debrincat at 9 but I had Zub at 4.5, I don't see us going after Chychrun. He was pretty bad in his one season as a RHD. Why risk it along with the assets? We're already going to have to spend something to dump Zaitsev's last year.

Personally, I'm in favor of giving Hamnoic or Holden a 1 year extension if they're cheap enough 1.3-1.5M or so.

I had us at 82.97M, so it would be tight.

Only one I'm really unsure of is Formenton. Anything we can save on Debrincat, Brannstrom, Formenton, etc.. could make it a lot easier to retain Zub under an 83.5M cap.

Obviously if the cap ends up at 86.5M we're probably golden.

Yes, you can come up with slightly different numbers quite easily. I'm not really even attempting to say that each AAV that has been projected for each player is 100% accurate. I do think that would be a rather foolish position to take. Further, I'm not pushing the idea of adding Chychrun. I'm just trying to come up with a reasonable estimate of a scenario such as this and see what the total AAV number is. That is my objective.

I did mention that Pinto's number could be a little light & optimistic btw. I do like your idea of using Stones contract. I looked at a couple of comparable to come up with mine, but I wouldn't argue that this was foolproof.

The other thing is that yes we could resign a vet defender (as you mentioned) and substitute that vet for one of young ELCs on defense. The only issue there would be that you need that vet's AAV to be pretty much what we'd be paying an ELC defender (around $900k ish).

I would only make a few observations or summaries as follows:

1. The first is that the roster and AAVs that I put together does not leave much wiggle room or room for error. It is very tight as we have both concluded. It wouldn't take much in the way of events for the team to be over cap if the cap is $83.5 m.

2. Arguably the main objective of the spreadsheet that I presented was to see if we could add a defender in the price range of a defender like Chychrun as this is a subject that is frequently discussed and is of much interest in here. I think the answer to that question becomes clear when you look at and analyze the spreadsheet. Yes, we can do it, but it requires some subtractions of some middle of the lineup players. But, I come back to the point #1 again and the caveat that I mentioned that it wouldn't take much to put us over. Conversely, I'm not pushing the idea of adding Chychrun. I'm merely examining the impact on the cap IF we were to add him (or another player in same AAV range).

I suppose another summary is that imho its better to have these numbers in front of us and in our minds versus not having them at all and just shooting in the dark.

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

How crazy is it that we're talking about how to get under the cap these days?

We might soon find ourselves having to trade away a star player from the top of the roster to re-distribute some cash to the youth coming up.

If it comes down to that, who would you move?

If Pinto clearly shows he's able to be an effective 2C and Greig has a monster AHL season, Norris easily. Norris for a 3C and a top 4 RHD would be swell.

 

[Pinto Bean]

There is something rather humbling as a hockey fan to be talking about potential cap casualties & tight cap-space situations with a team that has achieved absolutely nothing and is pretty much universally ranked to be outside of the playoff picture this season.

Guess the young guys gotta be paid but man I didn't think these type of discussions would be had for another few years. Guess the big off-season acquisitions expedited the process

 

[DueDiligence]

Pinto might very well get a 6m+ contract. He is really good and gets regular pp time.

Not if you bridge him for a couple of years.

 

[UglyPuckling]

There is something rather humbling as a hockey fan to be talking about potential cap casualties & tight cap-space situations with a team that has achieved absolutely nothing and is pretty much universally ranked to be outside of the playoff picture this season.

Guess the young guys gotta be paid but man I didn't think these type of discussions would be had for another few years. Guess the big off-season acquisitions expedited the process

Yes, the calculus changed when we made those off-season acquisitions. There's always that cyclical progression anyways in a cap league, but the progression timeline between rebuild and competing shrunk very rapidly when we made those acquisitions.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Yes, the calculus changed when we made those off-season acquisitions. There's always that cyclical progression anyways in a cap league, but the progression timeline between rebuild and competing shrunk very rapidly when we made those acquisitions.

incredible off season... Night and Day from what was happening before. Now sign Zub and bring Formenton back.