Proposal: Trade Rumours/Proposals [MOD - Stay on Topic]

[DueDiligence]

I mean this is not what Samsonov is, its his second team and he was a high first rounder whos been really good. He is only 26 thats usually when goalies start to mature. I have watched him quite a bit, he is legit. This is probably the best leafs team I have seen in my lifetime and im 40 this year. I dont even think they get out of the first round but there are absolutely no better available goalie options than Samsonov out there.

I still maintain the sens should be sellers. I dont even think it will make them any worse either. Its about winning a cup and this quite clearly isnt the year. The east is beyond stacked. However the way everyone above them is selling futures it will weaken the conference when the sens are ready to contend.

If Debrincat isnt going to sign an extension they should still trade him before the deadline. He is going to walk to UFA making 9 million a year if they dont.

I beg to differ but Samsonov has had a very pedestrian career so far. He has put up middle of the road numbers but nothing special. He's been good for stretches this year but his numbers speak more to the Leafs playing much better team defense than in the past. Bottom line is that he has yet to prove he is a game changer; if he is Leafs will win a round or two.

 

[BankStreetParade]

If we had a GM who added Gary Roberts and a quality defensemen and the team failed I suspect would be saying the players just don't have it

Dubas has a lot of support with Leaf fans

They probably have the 5th or 6th rated D in the conference and their goaltending is near or at the bottom of the rankings of all playoff teams in the conference. I'm skeptical they'll make it out of the first round, let alone get to the Finals.

 

[Senscore]

I think he generally makes good trades and smart moves. I find it hard to fault him for the fact that his extremely well built team is full of mental midgets that choke every year.

Ultimately it comes down to his big star players of Matthews, Marner, Tavares and Nylander.

The team he's built around them is really impressive.


Unfortunately for Dubas you can't just swap big names in and out as easily as more complementary players. Just look what happened to Calgary and Florida.

 

[JD1]

So we shouldn't take your word on Chabot's play lately then?

All kidding aside, Minnesota has one of the more knowledgeable fanbases, they are definitely a strong hockey market. I'm not saying they aren't going to be a bit hyperbolic in their assessment but I do think it's fair to say Dumba isn't living up to expectations.

There is, however, a disconnect between fan evals, and how the coach is using him. I suspect a change in usage might play into perceptions, Dumba no longer gets any pp time, the Spurgeon pair seems to get more mins with the top line, Dumba is no longer being used as an offensive Dman to the same extent.

I'd have to watch more wild games to really get a good feel for him, right now I'm really just not sure.

I didn't join a hive mindset on Chabot. I (think I) was the first on the board to say that Sanderson overtakes him defensively possibly by Christmas and suggest we might consider moving on. I suggested that last summer. I haven't been impressed with him defensively for a long time. He's definitely moving into hive territory now though.

HF fan hive evaluation is never a good thing

 

[Relapsing]

If we finished Top 3 in the East and lost in the first round most folks around here would consider that a resoundingly successful season.

For us where we're at now? Yes.

After the amount of times Toronto has done this? Absolutely not.

 

[HSF]

I dont mind dumba. Physical D who has some solid D play (maybe not the best but we only need him to be a #4 D). If we can trade for him for cheap and sign him to something close to 4Mx2-3 years im all in.

It's risky especially since he is having an off year and is UFA

agreed he has to come with a contract

They probably have the 5th or 6th rated D in the conference and their goaltending is near or at the bottom of the rankings of all playoff teams in the conference. I'm skeptical they'll make it out of the first round, let alone get to the Finals.

their defensive game has improved with Keefe this year

The east is stacked. I would say the Canes are well built even though they haven't won or made it to the finals. Sometimes you can be good and still not win

just how she goes

 

[bert]

I beg to differ but Samsonov has had a very pedestrian career so far. He has put up middle of the road numbers but nothing special. He's been good for stretches this year but his numbers speak more to the Leafs playing much better team defense than in the past. Bottom line is that he has yet to prove he is a game changer; if he is Leafs will win a round or two.

Well he isnt a journeyman and as for goalies and their development cycles he is still very young. I agree he has been average for the most part but he looks to be finding his game right now.

 

[SensFan1010]

It's risky especially since he is having an off year and is UFA

agreed he has to come with a contract

It seems every defensemen comes with some risk. Paranko, Chychurun, weegar etc all seem to have issues. At some point we have to pick one we cant keep looking for this perfect fit it doesnt exist

 

[Micklebot]

Haven't won a playoff round in almost 20 years is your definition of great?

They also have the 4th best pts% since the start of the 2016-17 season, not sure what relevance the last 20 years has wrt how well they rebuilt when Dubas has only been GM for 5 and their rebuild started what, 8 years ago?

There's room for criticism, but playoff success can be as much about good fortune and favourable matchups as it is about building a good team.

 

[BankStreetParade]

thats the next step and i suspect if they don't do it then heads or players will roll

their core is very very talented. they can pivot at any moment

Compared to Ottawa's rebuild they are doing really well

Their core has 1 more year left. They have emptied the cupboards on a team with no playoff success. I'm honestly shocked that the organization continues to let Dubas man the ship. He's produced nothing. They've spent $90M+ on their roster 4 years in a row and are coming up on cap armageddon with Matthews and Nylander as pending UFAs at the end of next year. If they don't win a Cup this year, they'll have the most bleak outlook of any team in the league. How anyone can say they have a good general manager is honestly mystifying. Arguably one of the worst GMs in the league to have produced the results they've produced.

 

[Union2017]

They also have the 4th best pts% since the start of the 2016-17 season, not sure what relevance the last 20 years has wrt how well they rebuilt when Dubas has only been GM for 5 and their rebuild started what, 8 years ago?

There's room for criticism, but playoff success can be as much about good fortune and favourable matchups as it is about building a good team.

2017 comes to mind

 

[Sens Vader]

Seems were clearly not in on Chrychrun

So its Parayko, Weegar or Ekholm

Dumba, Jensen, Gavrikov, Schenn, or Ghost if we go the UFA route

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Seems were clearly not in on Chrychrun

So its Parayko, Weegar or Ekholm

Dumba, Jensen, Gavrikov, Schenn, or Ghost if we go the UFA route

Jensen seems to be the best option? Parayko has a bad back, Eckholm is a lefty and the others ones aren't great defensively. I am not familiar with Gavrikov however.

 

[HSF]

Jensen seems to be the best option? Parayko has a bad back, Eckholm is a lefty and the others ones aren't great defensively. I am not familiar with Gavrikov however.

weegar is really good this year

the long contracts though might not be possible also makes a lot of money

 

[BankStreetParade]

They also have the 4th best pts% since the start of the 2016-17 season, not sure what relevance the last 20 years has wrt how well they rebuilt when Dubas has only been GM for 5 and their rebuild started what, 8 years ago?

There's room for criticism, but playoff success can be as much about good fortune and favourable matchups as it is about building a good team.

Those are just convenient excuses. This is a results business and so far the results are non-existent. If our rebuild culminates with 6 straight years of being a top team in the conference but never winning a playoff round, we can all call it what it is, a gigantic failure.

 

[Senscore]

Seems were clearly not in on Chrychrun

So its Parayko, Weegar or Ekholm

Dumba, Jensen, Gavrikov, Schenn, or Ghost if we go the UFA route

Fabbro?

 

[Sens Vader]

Jensen seems to be the best option? Parayko has a bad back, Eckholm is a lefty and the others ones aren't great defensively. I am not familiar with Gavrikov however.

I just dont think they will want a UFA, so all these guys would need to come with an extension I think which makes things more difficult

 

[Do Make Say Think]

weegar is really good this year

the long contracts though might not be possible also makes a lot of money

The long contract is a big concern for me.

If the fit isn't great, we are locked in and that is worrisome.

 

[JD1]

I think he generally makes good trades and smart moves. I find it hard to fault him for the fact that his extremely well built team is full of mental midgets that choke every year.

How can the team be extremely well built AND full of mental midgets. Isn't that a contradiction?

Let's suppose for a moment that Toronto loses in the 1st round this year. Certainly that's not an unreasonable expectation. So, Dubas is without a contract. He's never won a playoff round. He's traded away their most critical draft capital, putting them in a hole for a few years. His best asset is a year away from potentially walking out the door. What do you do?

I think the prudent move it to terminate him immediately upon defeat. Have a new GM waiting in the wings. Have the new GM present Matthews an offer that he's prepared to sign or advise him he's gone at the draft and recoup as much draft capital as possible

Dubas has had a full cap budget. Massive non cap support expenditures in scouts. No expense spared. He's produced nothing.

 

[Sens Vader]

Fabbro?

We have not been linked to him, and I think Ottawa will want to go with a more established guy. But yes he could still be a target for sure

 

[Mingus Dew]

I’m guessing you weren’t around when the Sens were perennial top team in the league and folded in the playoffs. Most folks certainly weren’t claiming successful seasons back then lol

I certainly was. Success back then is different than success today given where our team currently stands in its life cycle.

 

[JD1]

If we finished Top 3 in the East and lost in the first round most folks around here would consider that a resoundingly successful season.

5 years in a row?

 

[Joeyjoejoe]

The ask for Ekholm is apparently 2 first rounders, so we're likely out of that. Same with Gavrikov with CBJ asking for a 1st rounder.

Our best bet is to buy low on Fabbro or go UFA route with Jensen or TVR.

 

[PlayItAgain]

They also have the 4th best pts% since the start of the 2016-17 season, not sure what relevance the last 20 years has wrt how well they rebuilt when Dubas has only been GM for 5 and their rebuild started what, 8 years ago?

There's room for criticism, but playoff success can be as much about good fortune and favourable matchups as it is about building a good team.

Toronto is hovering around .500 winning percentage in the playoffs over the last 10 years. Are you seriously saying Toronto has not had favourable playoff matchups over that time?

 

[Do Make Say Think]

I wonder if we'd be open to sign Connor Brown this summer... His serious injury in a contract year may allow us to sign him for a bit cheaper if other teams are worried