Speculation: Trade Rumors/Speculation Thread Part VII: Shake Up

[Ola]

Everyone wants to win the Stanley Cup.

I agree.

It sounds kind of stupid, but when you consider that we are the org in the NHL that has the second most, if not the most, resources you seriously kind of wonder how those resources are used. What our USP is. How do we plan to do everything better than the rest?

There is a saying that goes something like "there are no smart people. Only stupid people who think they are smarter than anyone else". And while you can question it its still probably a pretty smart guideline to follow in life. Don't expect to get by by being smart. Work harder and be more dilligent than the rest.

But Slats is just such a prime example of someone that thinks he can get something done by just doing just what he does "smarter" than everyone else. Instead of setting up an organization that is "the" best. By finding new ways and leading the development.

One would be shocked if heard that we did something "nobody else did".

 

[Ola]

Well, we have people talking about removing the three team captains in one offseason. That's a heck of an overhaul.

Hey we lost three in a row!

 

[slipknottin]

I started at the 2000 NHL draft b/c quite honestly not too many picks are playing yet from the last 3 drafts.

D Moore
Cally
Dubi
Korpi
Anisimov
Hagelin
Stepan
Weise
Kreider

shuttle between NHL and AHL
Miller
Horak
Tom Pyatt
Christian Thomas (only 1 NHL game though)
Fast

Yea, like I said, 9 guys in 10 years. A couple hopefuls. That's pretty terrible. If those guys were all top line players it wouldn't be so bad. But there is 1 maybe 2 top 3 guys there.

 

[pld459666]

RB has been saying that Gorton was part of the braintrust involved that didn't think Thornton would get a SC done in Boston. Theres no reason to believe Gorton will think otherwise now that Thornton is much older.

Wasn't expecting Thornton to come anyway.

Thornton aside, I'm starting to think that Gorton is part of the problem here with regards to the direction thsi team goes with draft picks.

Personally, I would ****-can Sather Gorton AND Clarke

but that's just me.

I'm not the list bit impressed with the draft record of the Rangers in the last 10 years

Yes we have had some nice players come up. Dubi, AA, Cally, Stepan, Staal and still very early Kreider, but I'm less than impressed with teh rest of the picks.

One top pairing defenceman and not ONE game changing forward.

 

[mike14]

There's still plenty of hope for Stepan and kreider but as it stands, Mike York's 57 pts is the highest amount in a season by a Rangers drafted fwd playing for the Rangers since 97.

Not being able to draft a fwd who can crack 60 is a rangers speciality.

 

[Inferno]

There's still plenty of hope for Stepan and kreider but as it stands, Mike York's 57 pts is the highest amount in a season by a Rangers drafted fwd playing for the Rangers since 97.

Not being able to draft a fwd who can crack 60 is a rangers speciality.

oof...please tell me that stat is wrong...it just.....hurts to read that.

 

[pld459666]

Why? He got a light body and keeps himself in great shape. Cally isn't that involved either. Like does he take more of a beating than Lucic?

There are plenty of players like Cally that played well 'till 36.

You won't sign Cally to a 3 year deal. 5 year is the minimum. For 5 years, you have to pay him a ton for all those years. Slap on another 3 years to bring the cap hit down.

Slats really screwing up here. Soon we will see the cap at 90-100m while our competitiors are paying their core players 5m per because they used the tools available to them under the CBA. There are few UFAs available and the cap will grow by alot in the coming years. You are going to see really high cap hits for the UFAs that hit the market. You are going to see high cap hits for RFA's resigned. The price is going up. It -- is -- going to be 12m per for the best players, 10m per for the players below that level, and 8m per for the 3rd tier guys. 5.8m per or whatever on a 8 year deal for Cally is not a bad signing.

If he is injured, you have LTIR. Its not like Cally would hit our cap if he is hurt.

Absolutely he takes more of a beating than Lucic. His body is alot more slight and there fore the level of physical wear and tear that Lucic can endure will always be greater than Callahan.

Paying Callahan 5+ over 5-8 years is a mistake waiting to happen.

Just like the Yankees made the smart and right choice in passing no Cano for 10 years, the Rangers need to pass on Callahan on anything more than 4 years.

 

[slipknottin]

There's still plenty of hope for Stepan and kreider but as it stands, Mike York's 57 pts is the highest amount in a season by a Rangers drafted fwd playing for the Rangers since 97.

Not being able to draft a fwd who can crack 60 is a rangers speciality.

How many guys have they drafted in lets say, the past 15 years, that have scored 20 while on the rangers?

Cally
Dubi
Stepan
Prucha
??
...

 

[NYR Viper]

It's not though. It solves nothing.

Bottom of the barrel bottom 6 in exchange for one top offensive player just doesn't work.

If the rangers could consistently find bottom 6 players in the draft they could trade those guys away.

But of the past 10 drafts how many offensive ranger draft picks are still playing in the nhl? 8? 9?

How many guys have they drafted in lets say, the past 15 years, that have scored 20 while on the rangers?

Cally
Dubi
Stepan
Prucha
??
...

Up until about 6-7 years ago, there drafting was horrid. That's a fact so the more time you go back, the worse it will look.

 

[Ruggs225]

oof...please tell me that stat is wrong...it just.....hurts to read that.

Just checked and unfortunately it is true.

 

[slipknottin]

Up until about 6-7 years ago, there drafting was horrid. That's a fact so the more time you go back, the worse it will look.

Ok. So in the past 6-7 years, the rangers have drafted one player who has scored 20 goals in a season. Stepan.

And you say their drafting has become much better?

 

[Fitzy]

Ok. So in the past 6-7 years, the rangers have drafted one player who has scored 20 goals in a season. Stepan.

And you say their drafting has become much better?

I guess it depends. Since 05, the Rangers have drafted

Marc Staal
Artem Anisimov
Derek Stepan
Chris Kreider
Carl Hagelin
Michael Del Zotto
Michael Sauer

Edit: Dubinsky and Callahan were in 04

So, if that is any indication we're good at drafting defensive defensemen, and two way forwards. But not high scoring players, most of whom are drafted in the top 10 anyways. The number of PPG forwards in the league is low, low, low right now. Cherepanov was our best bet at that.

 

[Ruggs225]

Ok. So in the past 6-7 years, the rangers have drafted one player who has scored 20 goals in a season. Stepan.

correct. You have to go back 10 drafts to find the next 20 goal scorer which was Dubi and Cally (Korpikoski from that year had a high of 19).

for the record Anisimov never has hit 20 goals in a season his highest was 18 for those that wondered.

 

[NYR Viper]

Ok. So in the past 6-7 years, the rangers have drafted one player who has scored 20 goals in a season. Stepan.

And you say their drafting has become much better?

I guess it depends. Since 05, the Rangers have drafted

Marc Staal

Artem Anisimov
Derek Stepan
Chris Kreider
Carl Hagelin
Michael Del Zotto
Michael Sauer

Edit: Dubinsky and Callahan were in 04

So, if that is any indication we're good at drafting defensive defensemen, and two way forwards. But not high scoring players, most of whom are drafted in the top 10 anyways. The number of PPG forwards in the league is low, low, low right now. Cherepanov was our best bet at that.

correct. You have to go back 10 drafts to find the next 20 goal scorer which was Dubi and Cally (Korpikoski from that year had a high of 19).

for the record Anisimov never has hit 20 goals in a season his highest was 18 for those that wondered.

It takes time for players to come into the league and score goals. Can you really fault a 21 year old for not scoring 20 goals? What about a 22 year old? Should they have peaked already?

Expecting these young kids to come up and score 20 goals right away is not realistic.


Also, Stepan had 18 goals in 48 games last year. Is it his fault the league was locked out? Would he not have scored 2 more in the next 34 games?

Hagelin had 10 in 48. Could he have reached 20 in 82?

Kreider has 7 in 24 this season. Could he reach 20 this season? He is only 22.

Anisimov had 11 goals in 35 games last year. Again, 82 games, what does he have?

You are judging these young players because they are young and still developing.

 

[RangerBoy]

Tom Renney and then Don Maloney made the picks in the early 2000's. Maloney ran the 2004 draft with Renney being an associate coach to Sather in 2003-04. Clark was elevated to head amateur scout in 2005. Gorton didn't join the organization as a scout until 2007. He was elevated to Clark's assistant in 2008. Kreider,McIlrath,Miller and Skjei. Those are the first rounders. Gorton told Sather to get McDonagh from Montreal. The Rangers keep trading away picks. They traded their 2nd and the Caps 2nd in 2011 to get Erixon. They traded Erixon in the Nash deal. They traded away their #1 in 2013 for Nash. They have a lot invested in Nash. Traded the #2 in 13 for Clowe. They traded a 3rd in 11 for McCabe. That doesn't stop people from proposing trading more picks for rentals like Ott. In 2010,they took Thomas in the 2nd round. Which player taken after Thomas would have been a better pick? Its easy to play the 20/20 hindsight game. Even in the 09 draft. Look at some of the players taken after the Rangers picked. The Rangers need to be adding picks in 2nd and not trading them away. Trade up late into the first round.

 

[Fitzy]

Kreider will be a 20 goal guy if he keeps on this growth curve.

But it is true that NYR have not prioritized taking shots on hit or miss offensive players. My point about how few of them there actually are remains the same.

Grab Moulson and Carey this offseason and you have a good set of PP sniper options for next year.

 

[Ruggs225]

It takes time for players to come into the league and score goals. Can you really fault a 21 year old for not scoring 20 goals? What about a 22 year old? Should they have peaked already?

Expecting these young kids to come up and score 20 goals right away is not realistic.

I'm not saying there is fault. I'm not really taking a side here. I was just providing the stats and seeing for fun if what people were claiming were true.

Although really, it seems that the 2004-2005 and 2008 drafts were the good drafts for us and we have been a little poorer lately.


http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr00007089.html

 

[JimmyG89]

Ok. So in the past 6-7 years, the rangers have drafted one player who has scored 20 goals in a season. Stepan.

And you say their drafting has become much better?

It has. Dubi, AA, and Cally all can score 20. They have that ability. You still do the Nash trade. He is a 40 goal guy. You can find another 20 goal player. Issue is twofold. Right now there is no other legit top line guy than Nash. Stepan is the closest to that respect. Richards, Kreider, and Cally Are 2nd Line players. There is also no scoring player who gits into the 3rd line. Hagelin, Zuke, and Brassard are not physical nor are they goal scorers. This Team Could Use A Bryan Bickel type player for that line. Hard to come by. Could use a top line winger added to the current group. Do not subtract from what we have currently.

Besides that they need effort, but that is not sone thing you can trade a pick or prospect for.

 

[slipknottin]

It takes time for players to come into the league and score goals. Can you really fault a 21 year old for not scoring 20 goals? What about a 22 year old? Should they have peaked already?

Expecting these young kids to come up and score 20 goals right away is not realistic.

I'm not faulting the players. Like I said they have not drafted well.

There are plenty of players who score 20+ goals at age 22 or under.

But the bigger issue is who do they have up and coming that's a 20 goal scorer?

Kreider and who else?

Miller? He might have a chance

Kristo? Lindberg? Neither is likely

 

[Fitzy]

Pyatt, Bell, Arnason were all 20 goal guys at one point, so of course that figure doesn't make or break your effectiveness down the line. I'd take a 10-15 goal Hagelin over a lot of 20 goal guys in the league.

 

[NYR Viper]

Kreider will be a 20 goal guy if he keeps on this growth curve.

But it is true that NYR have not prioritized taking shots on hit or miss offensive players. My point about how few of them there actually are remains the same.

Grab Moulson and Carey this offseason and you have a good set of PP sniper options for next year.

Moulson would help tremendously. So would someone like Cammelleri.

 

[slipknottin]

It has. Dubi, AA, and Cally all can score 20. They have that ability. You still do the Nash trade. He is a 40 goal guy. You can find another 20 goal player. Issue is twofold. Right now there is no other legit top line guy than Nash. Stepan is the closest to that respect. Richards, Kreider, and Cally Are 2nd Line players. There is also no scoring player who gits into the 3rd line. Hagelin, Zuke, and Brassard are not physical nor are they goal scorers. This Team Could Use A Bryan Bickel type player for that line. Hard to come by. Could use a top line winger added to the current group. Do not subtract from what we have currently.

Besides that they need effort, but that is not sone thing you can trade a pick or prospect for.

Dubi cally were drafted in 2004.

Anisimov has never scored 20.

This talk of "they can find a 20 goal guy" is just untrue. Because they can't.

They have found 4 of them in the past 15 years

 

[NYR Viper]

I'm not faulting the players. Like I said they have not drafted well.

There are plenty of players who score 20+ goals at age 22 or under.

But the bigger issue is who do they have up and coming that's a 20 goal scorer?

Kreider and who else?

Miller? He might have a chance

Kristo? Lindberg? Neither is likely

Stepan had 18 in 48 last year.

Hagelin had 10 in 48 last year.

Kreider has 7 in 24 this year.

Kristo, Fast, Miller and Lindberg look to be solid prospects. Who knows how they turn out. Unless you pick in the top-5, it's hard to just say "well this player is a sure-fire 20+ goal scorer in the NHL". It's hard to score that amount of goals.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Moulson would help tremendously. So would someone like Cammelleri.

NYR Viper - never met a potential acquisition he didnt like.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Stepan had 18 in 48 last year.

Hagelin had 10 in 48 last year.

Kreider has 7 in 24 this year.

Kristo, Fast, Miller and Lindberg look to be solid prospects. Who knows how they turn out. Unless you pick in the top-5, it's hard to just say "well this player is a sure-fire 20+ goal scorer in the NHL". It's hard to score that amount of goals.

Fast was an embarrassment when he started the season with the Rangers. I dont know how you can watch something like that and still be optimistic.