They're stock piling picks. That's why. Foligno's value will be at its highest now. Getting the best possible pick for him makes sense.
Speculation: Trade Rumors/Speculation Thread Part VI: Do Something
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They're stock piling picks. That's why. Foligno's value will be at its highest now. Getting the best possible pick for him makes sense.
LeetchisGod
This is a bad hockey team.
All I am saying is that we should inquire. If the price is too high or they don't want to deal him, then we look elsewhere. He has fallen out of favor with Nolan lately so you never know.
silverfish
got perma'd
What makes you think that a 22 year old kid's value is at it's highest now? Especially since he's struggling this season...
That's like saying Kreider's value was at it's highest after training camp when he got sent to the Pack...
You're a rebuilding GM. You have a 22 year old kid who has played 86 NHL games at nearly 0.5 PPG pace. You think to yourself: Yeah, let's trade him for a third-rounder who might not ever make the NHL! Seems off to me, but hey, to each their own.
Who do you want on your team?
22 years old: 86 NHL games played, 14 goals, 25 assists.
20 years old: 41 NHL games played, 3 goals, 3 assists.
If you say player B, you're a liar.
This I can agree with, but couldn't you say that about anyone in the league really?
Thirty One
Safe is safe.
- Dec 28, 2003
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Ail
Based and Rangerspilled.
Not enough information to make the correct and informed decision. (Which is clearly B.)
silverfish
got perma'd
**** it, let's add more stats!
A: 22 years old: 86 NHL games played, 14 goals, 25 assists, -8
B: 20 years old: 41 NHL games played, 3 goals, 3 assists -11
Advanced stats that I have no idea what they mean? You bet!
A: Ozone faceoffs: 28.8%
B: Ozone faceoffs: 32.3%
A: corsi for percentage: 44.7%
B: corsi for percentage: 48.8%
A: fenwick for relative to team: 0.4%
B: fenwick for relative to team: -3.1%
A: shots for relative: -1%
B: shots for relative: -3.3%
What does this all mean? No clue.
NYR Viper
Registered User
I think this was leaked by the Rangers to say "up the offers". Pure posturing. I still expect a deal within the next week.
What makes you think that a 22 year old kid's value is at it's highest now? Especially since he's struggling this season...
That's like saying Kreider's value was at it's highest after training camp when he got sent to the Pack...
You're a rebuilding GM. You have a 22 year old kid who has played 86 NHL games at nearly 0.5 PPG pace. You think to yourself: Yeah, let's trade him for a third-rounder who might not ever make the NHL! Seems off to me, but hey, to each their own.
Who do you want on your team?
22 years old: 86 NHL games played, 14 goals, 25 assists.
20 years old: 41 NHL games played, 3 goals, 3 assists.
If you say player B, you're a liar.
This I can agree with, but couldn't you say that about anyone in the league really?
I'll explain my logic.
1) They're about to rebuild. Completely. Ott. Miller. Moulson. They'll all be gone by the deadline. What happens to teams that have no veteran presence and are rebuilding? The team can become a frat house. Look at the Oilers. The Sabres are doing a similar model to rebuild as the Oilers are/did. Over time, with no leadership, no one to help teach, young players begin to play worse. Foligno is undoubtedly learning from Ott. Whether it be through immediate mentorship or just watching how he plays and conducts himself as a player. That will hurt him trying to develop into a similar player to Ott.
2) Ott may conceivably not get a 1st round pick. It depends on the demand. 3rd line players don't generally get over 2nd round picks. A few years back the premium for players like Ott and Gaustad was at an all time high. Buffalo was barely able to get a 1st for Gaustad, at the time one of the most highly regarded 3rd line players in the league - I think they had to even add in a draft pick in addition to Gaustad to ensure that they got Nashville's first. What makes you think that Foligno is going to get a 1st? Cause he's 22? That means nothing. That tells me he has potential but isn't established. Potential for what? To be a 3rd line player? Not 1st round worthy.
Thirty One
Safe is safe.
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NYR Viper
Registered User
Just a feeling I get. AV said he wanted to get a feel for what he has and what he feels he needs by about the 25 game mark. I think he has an idea.
silverfish
got perma'd
1) That's a bit of an over simplification, don't you think? The franchises are completely different. You think Ted Nolan is going to let his team become a "frat house"? And I don't understand you talking about Ott. Just because Ott is on the team isn't going to automatically make Foligno into a hard-nosed grind it out player, just like having Rick Nash on the team isn't going to automatically make JT Miller an NHL dominating power forward. I don't like the comparison, but again, to each their own.
Plus, Edmonton had no defense, and no goalie. The Sabres have both of those things in young players and veterans. Pysyk, Ristolainen (sp?), Ehrhoff, Myers (blegh), Tallinder, Weber. A good mix of youth and vets, plus some prospects I'm missing (Jake McCabe, for one). The Oilers had nothing like that until they added Schultz, and the Oilers don't have a goalie like Enroth, who isn't great, but is better than anything EDM had. You act like if the Sabres trade Ott, Moulson, and Miller, their average age is going to be 12, and they'll all be too focused on the Cheerios factory in Buffalo to play hockey. Guys like Leino, Ehrhoff, Myers, Tallinder, Scott, McCormick are going nowhere because they're undervalued around the league (for the right reasons) and will be hard to deal. One will be amenstied, the rest will be Sabres. Veteran presence. No cheerios!
2) I don't think Foligno is going to get anything, because he's not going to be dealt. Gaustad was dealt with a fourth rounder for a first round pick, and it was an absolute steal for Darcy. Ott will get a first-rounder, I'd be shocked if he didn't.
I never said Foligno could get a first. You're putting words in my mouth. I said debating his value is a little premature and unnecessary, as it would not make sense for a team that is rebuilding to trade a 22 year old kid who is part of their core. What I did say is that you should compare what Buffalo is asking for Foligno, to what the Rangers would ask for JT Miller. If you believe that is a first-rounder, then that is your prerogative.
i hope he has an idea on how to get this team to stick up for each other if they cant trade for or develop their own forward with grit skill and toughness... they used to to stick up for each other when Prust and Dubinsky was on this team.. i doubt they stopped because those 2 are gone from this team.. and when Nash sends a message (trying to go after Krug in Boston) right after coming back from a concussion not a good sign....
I was under the impression that by saying I didn't know what I was talking about (when I said he'd get tops 2nd) implied he'd get more, i.e a first if not more...
You seem to have a better grasp on the Sabres than I do... well it's pretty apparent... but historically speaking, 3rd line players don't yield high returns (1st round picks).
You think he'll develop into something more, I think he's looking at 3rd line for the majority of his career. Buffalo hasn't had goal scorers. The goals need to come from somewhere. 15 in 86 (or however many you said) isn't goal scorer. It's 3rd line pace with improvement on a contender.
He's worth more to the Sabres, which is why I think if anyone trades for him they'll over play. Overpayment for a veteran 3rd liner who is proven is a low first rd pick, or a 2nd. That's a veteran, proven, hopefully has playoff experience, can help younger kids develop. Foligno is 22. Only played in 80, somewhat games. 2nd for him would be a coup for the Sabres. 3rd would even be over value, in my opinion.
silverfish
got perma'd
I think I was referencing something else. I shouldn't have personally attacked you - stressful morning, no excuse. Sorry about that!
Fair enough. I think Foligno has more talent than you're giving him credit for, and I think he'll carve out a nicer career than his brother has, too. And I don't foresee the Sabres giving up on him, as I think trading him - even for a 2nd rounder - would be just that.
The Gloaming
23
Would you guys trade JT Miller for a 2nd or 3rd round pick? Probably not. So why would the Sabres trade Foligno for the same?
Why are you comparing the 2? Foligno was selected 109th overall. I've read about 5 scouting reports on him. All say something similar to this one:
http://www.sportscity.com/nhl-rookie-watch-marcus-foligno-buffalo-sabres/2013/03/09/
The good: He has size and grittiness. Energy. Hard hitter.
The bad: His scoring potential seems to be questionable at best. His work ethic is being questioned. Mental lapses.
Go read Miller's scouting reports. He was selected 15th.
The good: Natural scoring ability. Defensive responsibility. Edge to game. Work ethic not even a question.
The bad: A little undersized. Hasn't realized his potential yet. Mental lapses.
Miller was drafted with the intention of being a top 6 forward. Foligno with the intention of bottom 6.
Their values aren't similar. Laughable. Foligno is definition of 3rd line player. Miller could develop into a captain.
Haha it's ok. The only thing that ever gets under my skin on this board is if people pick and choose what they want to argue about just to try and prove a point.
You're entitled to your opinion. You clearly have a better understanding of the Sabres organization than I do. You didn't nit pick. It's all good.
The Gloaming
23
Foligno: 0.7096 AHL PPG
Miller: .64 AHL PPG.
I'll grant Miller being 2 years younger, but it's not like he's been lighting the world on fire over there. So I don't think they're as far apart as you make them out to be.
Has Miller even had a full year in the AHL yet? Lol. Being 20 in that league is a big deal. He has 5 goals and an assist in 6 games this year? Something like that. Ppg in a very small sample size? He's been up and down with the big club since last year. 19 y/o in NHL. That's a big deal too.
They're much farther apart than you say.
The Gloaming
23
So 90 + games is a samller sample size and 6 games isn't?
Miller: .15 NHL PPG (41 games)
Foligno: .45 PPG (86 games)
Miller was a better scorer in juniors though. But so far at the pro level, Foligno has outscored him.
JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK
Twenty f*ckin years
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NYR Viper
Registered User
Just pure speculation on my part but I would love to acquire Zack Kassian who is being under utilized in Vancouver right now. Big body, tough as nails, RWer. Give him 3rd line minutes with a player like Brassard.
He would fix a couple of problems and be able to grow with the team.
He would fix a couple of problems and be able to grow with the team.
Thirty One
Safe is safe.
- Dec 28, 2003
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