Speculation: Trade Rumors/Speculation Thread Part VI: Do Something

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

In some ways, all teams go through that kind of thing. Even the Blackhawks took a hit for a couple of years after winning the Cup when they moved some of their depth out for cap purposes. They were coming from a higher high, but the principle is somewhat the same, although the comparison is limited.

If the Ranger were a couple years removed from winning the Cup, I think my patience level would be different. I'd also be more inclined to give the GM the benefit of the doubt.

 

[JimmyG89]

For all purposes, Hagelin is a 3rd liner too. Anisimov can be thrown into that mix too. Prust is a 3rd liner at this point as well. Oft injured though, but a 3rd liner. Issue is internally, there are no guys ready to move there, which we all were expecting. Fast, Lindberg, Hrivik, Miller and Kristo are not quite there. At least one was expected to cracking the roster. Make Pouliot and Pyatt extras. Did not happen. Maybe by mid season, but is that too late for this current group?

 

[RangersHank*]

I'm always wondering where these players are that are so loud and rambunctious and "tell it like it is" and have this "fire in their eyes" during interviews. What does it matter if he's not tossing around equipment and punching Larry Brooks in the head? What does matter is the fact he hasn't translated anything to on-ice play.

The player personnel of this team has turned over time and time and time and time again. While yes, teams can't stand pat with the same roster year-in year-out, everyone knows this and it's been said god knows how many times that the front office needs some spring cleaning and guys like Sather need to go. Unfortunately Dolan is making his money by selling out MSG between the Knicks and Rangers (do the Knicks actually sell out with how awful they've been this season?), so what incentive does he have to actually do anything world-shattering like that? Money is money, he doesn't care if a poopydookie on-court/ice product is earning him that money.

I think Dolan wants winning teams but he has no idea how to get one and thats the problem. I wonder what happens if Hank flat out left in the offseason, what would the organization do? Probably sign Bryz knowing Sather

 

[Tawnos]

If the Ranger were a couple years removed from winning the Cup, I think my patience level would be different. I'd also be more inclined to give the GM the benefit of the doubt.

...

Didn't I say the comparison was limited? The point is that even well-managed teams go through this kind of thing. Not to say that this team is well-managed.

We had Dubinsky, Callahan and Anisimov come in and give this team a big push. Then Stepan and Hagelin. Then we traded Dubi and Ani and we had... no one come in. Kreider was supposed to. Miller wasn't ready. There's was a gap in our development of forwards that's hurt us.

 

[Punxrocknyc19*]

Dallas Stars Rangers proposal??


Radek Faksa, Jamie Oleksiak and Matej Stransky to Rangers for Girardi and Brian Boyle


reason Rangers get some youth for their UFA to be and a potential top young forward in Faksa...

Rangers also get some depth on defense and a depth prospect

Dallas gets some defensive help and a guy that win draws for them..

 

[RangersHank*]

...

Didn't I say the comparison was limited? The point is that even well-managed teams go through this kind of thing. Not to say that this team is well-managed.

We had Dubinsky, Callahan and Anisimov come in and give this team a big push. Then Stepan and Hagelin. Then we traded Dubi and Ani and we had... no one come in. Kreider was supposed to. Miller wasn't ready. There's was a gap in our development of forwards that's hurt us.

I agree which is why guys like Pyatt were depended on

 

[RangersHank*]

Dallas Stars Rangers proposal??


Radek Faksa, Jamie Oleksiak and Matej Stransky to Rangers for Girardi and Brian Boyle


reason Rangers get some youth for their UFA to be and a potential top young forward in Faksa...

Rangers also get some depth on defense and a depth prospect

Dallas gets some defensive help and a guy that win draws for them..

Why Boyle? Because he cant fight?

 

[Punxrocknyc19*]

Why Boyle? Because he cant fight?

UFA in July.... why take the chance of letting him walk for nothing.. i guess fans like seeing the Rangers not get anything for their UFA to be... Sharks got picks back for Murray and Clowe who are broken down. im sure the Rangers can get a 1st for Girardi and something useful for Boyle.... let have Boyle walk like Prust did the year before and before you know it the Rangers will overpay 2.5 for someone like Fiddler

 

[RangersHank*]

UFA in July.... why take the chance of letting him walk for nothing.. i guess fans like seeing the Rangers not get anything for their UFA to be... Sharks got picks back for Murray and Clowe who are broken down. im sure the Rangers can get a 1st for Girardi and something useful for Boyle.... let have Boyle walk like Prust did the year before and before you know it the Rangers will overpay 2.5 for someone like Fiddler

Why let Boyle walk though? He is a good fit here

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

I think Dolan wants winning teams but he has no idea how to get one and thats the problem. I wonder what happens if Hank flat out left in the offseason, what would the organization do? Probably sign Bryz knowing Sather

NOT touring with the Eagles while the Rangers burn and the Knicks absolutely crumble would probably be a good start.

 

[Punxrocknyc19*]

Why let Boyle walk though? He is a good fit here

maybe because he is an UFA for the 1st time.. some players might wanna take advantage of that before its too late. i wont be shocked if he signs somewhere else...

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

...

Didn't I say the comparison was limited? The point is that even well-managed teams go through this kind of thing. Not to say that this team is well-managed.

We had Dubinsky, Callahan and Anisimov come in and give this team a big push. Then Stepan and Hagelin. Then we traded Dubi and Ani and we had... no one come in. Kreider was supposed to. Miller wasn't ready. There's was a gap in our development of forwards that's hurt us.

If theres one thing that covers a lot of warts and potential mis-management, its dynamic top line players. The Toews-Kane combo helped Chicago through some murky times. Why? Because if you put regular players with those 2, they become good players. I think guys like Hagelin and Zuccarello could really excel in a situation like that, but we don't have those types of guys, especially at center.

 

[RangersHank*]

NOT touring with the Eagles while the Rangers burn and the Knicks absolutely crumble would probably be a good start.

Good idea

 

[RangersHank*]

maybe because he is an UFA for the 1st time.. some players might wanna take advantage of that before its too late. i wont be shocked if he signs somewhere else...

I wouldnt be shocked either but i think Boyle is a good fit here

 

[OverTheCap]

NOT touring with the Eagles while the Rangers burn and the Knicks absolutely crumble would probably be a good start.

Unfortunately, he just enjoys Life in the Fast Lane and likes to Take It Easy.

"Jimmy Dolan, why don't you come to your senses?"

 

[RGY]

UFA in July.... why take the chance of letting him walk for nothing.. i guess fans like seeing the Rangers not get anything for their UFA to be... Sharks got picks back for Murray and Clowe who are broken down. im sure the Rangers can get a 1st for Girardi and something useful for Boyle.... let have Boyle walk like Prust did the year before and before you know it the Rangers will overpay 2.5 for someone like Fiddler

Stop referencing SJ. Are those draft picks playing in the NHL yet? No. You don't have to trade every UFA to be when you think theres a chance they may not be re-signing. Boyle isn't breaking down, so the comparison to Clowe and Murray is even more irrelevant. Boyle plays a solid game for this team. Our 3rd and 4th lines are an issue. Why are we going to deplete them even more? Everyone thinks we can just infuse youth into the bottom lines and we'll be ok. You need veterans too.

And if fiddler gets 2.5 what in the world do you think Boyle will get? Fiddler has produced far more.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Unfortunately, he just enjoys Life in the Fast Lane and likes to Take It Easy.

"Jimmy Dolan, why don't you come to your senses?"

I would fire Sather in a New York Minute.

 

[Blueblood 2]

Unfortunately, he just enjoys Life in the Fast Lane and likes to Take It Easy.

"Jimmy Dolan, why don't you come to your senses?"

Nice! As far as the Rangers are concerned, I am happy when Jimmy has the urge, "to sleep in the desert tonight, with a billion stars all around"!

 

[Tawnos]

If theres one thing that covers a lot of warts and potential mis-management, its dynamic top line players. The Toews-Kane combo helped Chicago through some murky times. Why? Because if you put regular players with those 2, they become good players. I think guys like Hagelin and Zuccarello could really excel in a situation like that, but we don't have those types of guys, especially at center.

We don't, you're right. But Toews-Kane (Hossa) didn't change the fact that Chicago would go from a Cup winner to 6-8 team while their depth rebuilt, which brought them back. That was really my only point... this stuff goes in cycles. I have a feeling that the cycles are somewhat quicker in the Cap world, but I don't really have evidence to support that.

If the Rangers had Brad Richards of his late-20s and Rick Nash today, they'd be fine. We're missing one half of that equation and as you point out, it's at center. Is Stepan the player now that he'll be for the rest of his prime? Probably, as weird as it is to say that about a 23-year old. Without drafting a center who is more than a 1A, I don't really see this changing. I'm not sure I'd have any more confidence of it with someone else running the show, either. We all know the Rangers will never have a bad enough season to draft in the top 2 or 3. It's never happened in the history of the franchise (we've had #4). This organization doesn't have the luck to find the guy in the mid-late part of the 1st round. I don't see that changing without Sather.

 

[Trxjw]

To be clear, I am not advocating tanking. I think too many people associate the word rebuild with tanking.

This core has been given a chance for years. As you mentioned, by the trade deadline, the decisions should be made on these guys. To take it a step further, if they're going to get rid of these assets, there should be clear-cut targets for the type of players they hope to get back.

But, like clockwork, the team will hang onto all their pending free agents and likely be buyers at the deadline in a half-assed attempt just to make the playoffs where "anything can happen" but it usually doesn't. Then, you've got a real ****ing disaster on your hands when it comes to where this roster is going in the summer. Worst of all, Sather is the guy that will mold it again.

How are people not sick of this? How do they continually come back to a reasoning of "Oh well another good player or two, or a coaching change is the solution." Its a vicious cycle.

Didn't mean to imply that you were advocating that. I was just piggy-backing off of the general conversation.

The real key, should the Rangers elect to move on from Callahan, Girardi, etc, is that they don't open up more holes that they'll spend the next several years trying to fill. If you move Callahan for a scoring forward, make sure that somewhere you're addressing the grit you're sacrificing, as well as the penalty killing ability he provides. Too often have the Rangers robbed Peter to pay Paul. It's always one extreme or the other with this team.

I think there are some very good players on this roster, and there are some very good kids in Hartford who are on the verge of becoming very good NHL players themselves. The Rangers need to figure out what kind of team they want to be. Only then can they:

1. Assess the current roster and determine who fits.
2. Assess the organizational depth and determine who can realistically fill team needs within the next 10-12 months.
3. Target players via trade who can fill the major holes left.
4. Supplement the remaining issues with shrewd drafting and minor FA signings.

 

[McRanger]

Ha, right. The current 14 year+ cycle of acquiring band-aids and then blaming the coach when the roster is a disaster is the plan we should continue with. Its worked so well.

This team is nothing like the pre-lockout teams. The teams we have had the last 7 years are nothing like the pre-lockout teams. The only connections between the two at any level of the organization are Dolan and Sather. And I doubt how much control either exert over the day to day running of the team. Sather seemed to have delegated almost all of his duties even before he got cancer.

Regardless, this isn't about Sather. If you fired him and hired a competent GM, scratch that if you fired him and hired the most competent GM in the history of the sport, he would look at your plan and call it idiotic.

No one is ripping apart a team that is in a playoff spot. No one is ripping apart a team that is almost certainly going to make the playoffs. No one is ripping apart a team that is 1/3 into the first season with a new coach and has had the majority of the roster healthy for about a week.

When you put it all together you have probably the most inconceivably ridiculous and unlikely plan in the history of sports management.

To be clear, I am not advocating tanking. I think too many people associate the word rebuild with tanking.

This core has been given a chance for years. As you mentioned, by the trade deadline, the decisions should be made on these guys. To take it a step further, if they're going to get rid of these assets, there should be clear-cut targets for the type of players they hope to get back.

But, like clockwork, the team will hang onto all their pending free agents and likely be buyers at the deadline in a half-assed attempt just to make the playoffs where "anything can happen" but it usually doesn't. Then, you've got a real ****ing disaster on your hands when it comes to where this roster is going in the summer. Worst of all, Sather is the guy that will mold it again.

How are people not sick of this? How do they continually come back to a reasoning of "Oh well another good player or two, or a coaching change is the solution." Its a vicious cycle.

If you want to trade Lundqvist, Callahan, Nash, etc you ARE talking about tanking.

Callahan will not be traded. Nash will not be traded. And most importantly Lundqvist will not be traded. The Rangers can't (and shouldn't try to) tank with him on the roster.

The only "benefit" of the Rangers ripping apart their team is the sense of pure satisfaction that a handful of posters would feel because of Sathers epic failure. Let me let you in on a little secret. Sather is already an epic failure. He was one before the lockout. He was one before you joined the board. There have probably been 10,000 posts on the subject. Fans boo him at games. Fan have organized rallies to have him fired. Even if the Rangers won a cup people would still hate him, and with good reason. So congrats. You won. It was over before it started.

 

[Punxrocknyc19*]

is it bad thinking that when Sather had got his cancer scare that all of us hope it would force him to retirement, and i guess the only way us fans wont see Sather as GM is if he dies??

 

[Thirty One]

is it bad thinking that when Sather had got his cancer scare that all of us hope it would force him to retirement, and i guess the only way us fans wont see Sather as GM is if he dies??

This line of discussion shows real potential. Let's explore.

 

[NYR Viper]

I think I could get behind a slight rebuild this season in order to recoup some assets. I don't think investing big money in Callahan, Girardi and Stralman is going to lead this team to a Cup.