- Jul 20, 2005
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It will never happen because it is an idiotic idea.
Has something like this ever happened in the history of the NHL? Or even close to it?
Speculation: Trade Rumors/Speculation Thread Part VI: Do Something
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It will never happen because it is an idiotic idea.
Has something like this ever happened in the history of the NHL? Or even close to it?
we did develop 3rd liners, Sather traded a few of them. Korpikoski, Weise and Dubinsky, all bottom 6 guys that WE drafted but they are gone. Now we need to sign guys like Pyatt and Pouliot to fill out the bottom 6.
I actually have a response to this that I think will change your mind. The concept of rebuilding is great in some cases. For example, the Mets and Jets... The concept of the full rebuild was one that I thought fit perfectly with long term success for both clubs. Stockpile young talent, get better draft picks, build through the farm.
That's essential to having sustained longterm success. I agree with you there (if that is what you believe, which it probably is). However, there are two things that need to be adjusted with this mentality.
1) While rebuilding and stockpiling young, controllable, cheap talent, a team needs to spend to develop it... through veterans. The best veterans cost money. For a team to be successful, and by successful I mean late in playoffs and eventual championship, there needs to be a healthy mix of good veterans and growing talent. It's nearly impossible to win a championship on young talent alone.
2) This is New York City. The notion of a full rebuild isn't accepted by the majority of this demographic. We're not a small market team, fans respond to immediate gratification. They pay a high premium for tickets, higher than the majority of other teams' fans, and they expect a competitive team with talented players. Rebuilding can almost never be a team's strategy in NYC and expect the fans to continue to come and support the team. It's a financial nightmare for the organization.
Now, the Rangers have taken steps to address this rebuilding concept but in a hybrid way. They've loaded the team with the most expensive veterans, and they've also paid a high premium to add some of the best scouts, so that they can find talent in the latter half of rounds/throw ins for trades and still pan out into NHL players.
The problem is, Sather, has not signed the best free agents. His fault lies with his judgement in free agents. Actually, it's a common problem in many people, where they decide they can't wait for the right product, so they pay the same price for an inferior one. If anything, with old age, Sather should have become wiser and recognized the fault in overspending for the point of overspending. That is one thing he hasn't ever changed.
Besides that, I agree with how he's approached building this team. It's a healthy mix of home grown talent and veteran free agents. Problem is, over the years, he's been signing the likes of Drury, Gomez, Gaborik, Redden, and now Richards. We could have had Kovalchuk but didn't have the space to fit him because we had signed Gomez Drury and Redden... He had to wait a year. He couldn't do it.
I don't think this team is in need of a full rebuild. Richards needs to be cut. If Del Zotto can net Zibanedjad, somehow (miraculously), that adds raw talent to our top 6 for the future right there. Stepan, Kreider, Zibi, Nash. You can add Zuke to that top 6 because he'll be able to effectively feed our other wingers.
We need a top 6 center. Those are hard to find. Rangers didn't want to trade for ROR last year. Maybe they give Colorado a 1st (or more) for him this offseason. Cally, Hagelin, Miller/Kristo should be able to be an effective enough 3rd line. 4th line should get younger and more aggressive.
McIlrath is coming up for defense. I think we'll let Girardi go at the end of the season. Maybe Sather recognizes the need to prepare for the future and deals him at the deadline as well. He'll get us at least a top prospect and a high draft pick. That helps with the farm.
Staal is part of the future. I don't trade him unless he demands a trade to Carolina. Even then, we can probably get Ryan Murphy, and still conceivably not have that large of a drop off in talent. Otherwise, he remains on our blue line.
McDonough is here to stay. Resign Stralman. Moore can be a decent bottom line player. We have Allen, Falk, Skjei to be able to handle the 6th defenseman's responsibilities.
I don't think this team is in need of a rebuild. They just need to find the right players to fit in the right holes.
This team doesn't need to strip down to the bare bones and start over, but it certainly could stand to finally make some difficult decisions and point the team in a slightly different direction. Moving Callahan and Girardi could fetch some very good, NHL-ready pieces in return. If things played out correctly, you could overhaul this team in the next 6 months and be ready to go in the fall.
Del Zotto for Zibanejad would be a solid trade for the Rangers, but I could see the Senators balking at it.
Del Zotto for Zibanejad would be a solid trade for the Rangers, but I could see the Senators balking at it.
But if you're a sensible GM you'd have to think that moving an additional piece to seal the deal should not be an issue. Hrvik, Fast, Lindberg? I'm sure that would sweeten the deal if Del Zotto alone isn't able to do it.
I don't think that's the issue. The Sens aren't exactly loaded up front, and Zibanejad is an important piece moving forward. If they're trying to acquire Del Zotto, then they're trying to salvage the season to an extent. Losing Zib up front could hurt them almost as much as adding Del Zotto would benefit them. Adding a AHL prospect doesn't help.
They're also a team with an internal budget. They'd be absorbing over a million in new salary with a one-for-one deal.
Ha, right. The current 14 year+ cycle of acquiring band-aids and then blaming the coach when the roster is a disaster is the plan we should continue with. Its worked so well.
To be clear, I am not advocating tanking. I think too many people associate the word rebuild with tanking.
This core has been given a chance for years. As you mentioned, by the trade deadline, the decisions should be made on these guys. To take it a step further, if they're going to get rid of these assets, there should be clear-cut targets for the type of players they hope to get back.
But, like clockwork, the team will hang onto all their pending free agents and likely be buyers at the deadline in a half-assed attempt just to make the playoffs where "anything can happen" but it usually doesn't. Then, you've got a real ****ing disaster on your hands when it comes to where this roster is going in the summer. Worst of all, Sather is the guy that will mold it again.
How are people not sick of this? How do they continually come back to a reasoning of "Oh well another good player or two, or a coaching change is the solution." Its a vicious cycle.
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
The healthy scratch seems to be the popular method these days. Kulikov is the latest. His 2nd contract expires this season. Arb eligible like DZ. The Leafs like him. I read teams are worried about the KHL and Kulikov. I think Garrioch wrote that. From: @GeorgeRichards
Sent: Dec 3, 2013 11:19a
Dmitry Kulikov: disappointed ... don't think I was playing bad enough to be kicked out of #FlaPanthers lineup
sent via txt
On Twitter: http://twitter.com/GeorgeRichards/status/407907062610264064
Sent: Dec 3, 2013 11:19a
Dmitry Kulikov: disappointed ... don't think I was playing bad enough to be kicked out of #FlaPanthers lineup
sent via txt
On Twitter: http://twitter.com/GeorgeRichards/status/407907062610264064
So? Are Dubinsky and Korpikoski 3rd liners? If so it proves my point. Korpikoski-Dubinsky-Callhan is better than Pouliot-Boyle-Callahan imo
There is one of those sabremetric hockey stats that outline tru contender status, and bottom feeders.
It's 5v5 Goal Differential. Have a look here, and do a little math: http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_team..._s&c=0+1+2+3+4+13+14+15+16+17+18+19+20+21+22#
The teams that pass the eye test, and W/L record as contenders are leading the pack.
It's only been 28 games so far, so a hot goalie streak can throw the numbers off with a small sample size, but the teams with the best 5v5 Goal Differential are the teams that are widely considered cup contenders.
It's 5v5 Goal Differential. Have a look here, and do a little math: http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_team..._s&c=0+1+2+3+4+13+14+15+16+17+18+19+20+21+22#
The teams that pass the eye test, and W/L record as contenders are leading the pack.
It's only been 28 games so far, so a hot goalie streak can throw the numbers off with a small sample size, but the teams with the best 5v5 Goal Differential are the teams that are widely considered cup contenders.
fans need to stop going to games. I'm sick of it too. If they see the fans not coming to games or buying any NYR merchandise, something might change. Then again there is 18,000 people at every game who live the lie of "anything can happen"
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
It is. It says more that after they traded Korpikoski and Dubinski, there was nobody in the system that could make signing Pyatt or Pouliot unnecessary.
True. It really is a joke when you think about it. Miller is the only one i can think of and he isnt even ready
Kristo, Fast, Lindberg, Hrivik, Yogan, Kantor....
around here, if you just keeping naming names, it means depth.
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
if Rangers do a deal with the Stars, i hope one of Radek Faksa or Brett Ritchie would come back in the deal
Right now i would call him a 3rd liner. And i agree, i see him at least as a 2nd liner
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
In some ways, all teams go through that kind of thing. Even the Blackhawks took a hit for a couple of years after winning the Cup when they moved some of their depth out for cap purposes. They were coming from a higher high, but the principle is somewhat the same, although the comparison is limited. The real problem for us is that the gap has been too wide. BRB mentioned some of the guys who could be bottom-6 players in the future... but none of them are ready yet and some of them will never be, obviously. So, even when Versteeg, Byfuglien and Ladd got moved, at least one guy (Stalberg) was available to step in.
it also needs Callahan to stop acting like Chris Drury in his interviews. im tired of hearing the same crap. does the MSG networks write down what the players are allowed to say????so dull and full of crap
I'm always wondering where these players are that are so loud and rambunctious and "tell it like it is" and have this "fire in their eyes" during interviews. What does it matter if he's not tossing around equipment and punching Larry Brooks in the head? What does matter is the fact he hasn't translated anything to on-ice play.
The player personnel of this team has turned over time and time and time and time again. While yes, teams can't stand pat with the same roster year-in year-out, everyone knows this and it's been said god knows how many times that the front office needs some spring cleaning and guys like Sather need to go. Unfortunately Dolan is making his money by selling out MSG between the Knicks and Rangers (do the Knicks actually sell out with how awful they've been this season?), so what incentive does he have to actually do anything world-shattering like that? Money is money, he doesn't care if a poopydookie on-court/ice product is earning him that money.
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