Speculation: Trade Rumors/Speculation Thread Part VI: Do Something

[Fitzy]

Smart teams also don't invest a lot of money on depreciating assets. Girardi is exactly that.

Chara and Pronger, defensive defensemen were good well into their late 30's. The list of examples is long. Not every defenseman follows Wade Redden's curve. Girardi is only 29. He'd be 35 at the end of a 6 year deal. That's Rozsival's current age. Defensive defensemen can have long careers.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

He's also faced weaker competition over his career than two of those three players, and has had plenty of his own issues adjusting to the man-to-man coverage in his own zone. Making the argument that he's "top 4 by default" isn't really all that impressive either.

If the team had a reliable #4 defender who could play the right-side, there's not a doubt in my mind that Stralman would be back on the bottom pairing. Simple as that.

What's laughable in all of this is implying that any of it has to do with him being a Swede. If that's really the case, I'm just going to go ahead and assume that all of your "Lundqvist is no longer elite" crap is just because he's Swedish.

Except you're missing the point. There's no stereotype about European goalies (that I know of) but there's a stereotype about European skaters. I read what a soft player Stralman is all the time. Is McDonagh Beuk or something? I'm saying that the stereotype against Europeans makes people perceive them in a worse light than NA players unless they're something fantastic. McDonagh had issues adjusting to the man-to-man coverage in his own zone as well. Who didn't? I'm not saying he's 4th by default, but even if he is, he's not 4th by default in Buffalo's defense. He's 4th on a good D.

 

[Kwayry]

His game evolved under Torts. He came in with that label. Turned his success around when he began focusing more on defense. Now he's one of our better defensively responsible players. It's likely the aspect he focuses on in practice since it led to his success. He went from fringe 6/7th dman to solid top 4....

I don't know what your criteria is for defensively responsible players, but he is not according to mine.
How often do you see Stralman battlling in the corner, muscling a forward out of the crease, playing the body? I guess throwing the occasional hip check or waving your stick at a forward qualifies.

 

[Thirty One]

Dreger says the Leafs want a top-six forward if they trade Gardiner. Says he played his best game last night. Hurricanes, Flames, Islanders among those interested.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

Chara and Pronger, defensive defensemen were good well into their late 30's. The list of examples is long. Not every defenseman follows Wade Redden's curve. Girardi is only 29. He'd be 35 at the end of a 6 year deal. That's Rozsival's current age. Defensive defensemen can have long careers.

Pronger was a great investment for the Flyers... He played a marginal role. He was expected to right their defensive woes. Regardless, he would have been a solid investment (w/o the concussions) because of his shot and his physicality.

Chara same thing. Bomb shot, physical presence. Crease clearer. Point shot. Long stick. Defensively he's been lapsing more and more every coming year. What makes his contract worth it is again, physical presence, and the point shot.

Rosival's contract was horrific. He was neither a defensive defenseman or an offensive defenseman. He wasn't physical. He rarely shot when he was with the Rangers. He didnt get down to block shots. He was rather a liability on defense.

Sheldon Souray deteriorated. He became untradable. Would anyone give Orpik the contract he got last time? He's only 2 years older than Girardi. His regression from 30-32 has been astounding.

Girardi is regressing. What happened to his physicality? His impeccable positioning? In 2 years it'll be worse. It's certainly not getting better with age. He's not a physical presence any longer. He doesn't provide offense. He relies on positioning to be effective. With age comes slower foot speed and thus worse positioning. He'd be a terrible 5-6 yr signing.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

I don't know what your criteria is for defensively responsible players, but he is not according to mine.
How often do you see Stralman battlling in the corner, muscling a forward out of the crease, playing the body? I guess throwing the occasional hip check or waving your stick at a forward qualifies.

Our definitions are clearly different. Defensively responsible doesn't mean physical presence. Falk battles in the corner, he muscles out in the crease, and he plays the body... I wouldn't classify him as defensively responsible.

Stralman's positioning is among the upper half of our defensemen. He's more careful with the puck and giving it away than our other defensemen. He's not caught up ice as much or making mistakes in our own zone.

 

[Fitzy]

Willie Mitchell, Chris Phillips, Derek Morris are all slower positional defensemen playing into their late 30's as well.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

Dreger says the Leafs want a top-six forward if they trade Gardiner. Says he played his best game last night. Hurricanes, Flames, Islanders among those interested.

So... the Rangers should be looking for a top 6 forward for Del Zotto after he played his best game yesterday afternoon?

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

Willie Mitchell, Chris Phillips, Derek Morris are all slower positional defensemen playing into their late 30's as well.

And they're all being paid 1st pairing contracts for extended periods of time?

Morris struggled to find a job the last couple of years. He's been a bottom pairing defenseman since he was traded here. Mitchell and Phillips not being given 5 mill for 5 years either.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I don't know what your criteria is for defensively responsible players, but he is not according to mine.
How often do you see Stralman battlling in the corner, muscling a forward out of the crease, playing the body? I guess throwing the occasional hip check or waving your stick at a forward qualifies.

Oh jesus, now not only is he not a top 4 guy he's not even defensively responsible. Defensively irresponsible D-men that don't provide much offense don't get top 4 minutes on good defensive teams. He should frankly not even be in the lineup if he's defensively irresponsible and providing no offense.

 

[Josh3217]

Any interest in a Staal for Faulk swap?

 

[Tawnos]

I don't know what your criteria is for defensively responsible players, but he is not according to mine.
How often do you see Stralman battlling in the corner, muscling a forward out of the crease, playing the body? I guess throwing the occasional hip check or waving your stick at a forward qualifies.

Many of the better defensive D are often unnoticeable.

 

[1Knee1T]

Any interest in a Staal for Faulk swap?

Not in Carolina.

 

[Fitzy]

Many of the better defensive D are often unnoticeable.

Tim Gleason being a prime example of an underrated stay at home type who isn't a big hitter. One of my favorites in the league.

 

[RGY]

Marc Staal goes through a very, very small stretch of, not bad, but average hockey and now people are entertaining trading him. He has been fantastic this year, looks closer to the form he was at a few years ago.

....these boards never cease to amaze

 

[Trxjw]

Swapping between the Sens/Wings and Oilers/Stars games. Laughable that some of those fans believe Del Zotto wouldn't be an enormous upgrade on what they have on D. Painful to watch.

 

[Inferno]

Marc Staal goes through a very, very small stretch of, not bad, but average hockey and now people are entertaining trading him. He has been fantastic this year, looks closer to the form he was at a few years ago.

....these boards never cease to amaze

i dont agree with this, pretty much at all.

he's been WELL below his usual level. Stralman has covered up for him quite a bit.

 

[I Eat Crow]

Swapping between the Sens/Wings and Oilers/Stars games. Laughable that some of those fans believe Del Zotto wouldn't be an enormous upgrade on what they have on D. Painful to watch.

Can't do anything for fanbases that are as delusional as their front offices. Edmonton, I'm looking at you.

 

[StepansLabyrinth]

Marc Staal goes through a very, very small stretch of, not bad, but average hockey and now people are entertaining trading him. He has been fantastic this year, looks closer to the form he was at a few years ago.

....these boards never cease to amaze

I like Staal and think he's one of the best second pairing defenseman in the league. He would probably be first pairing on a lot of teams. Because of that, he has extremely high value in a trade. What we got back might improve the team overall.

 

[JCrusher*]

i dont agree with this, pretty much at all.

he's been WELL below his usual level. Stralman has covered up for him quite a bit.

Agreed, Staal hasnt been terrible but he is nowhere near what he was in the past. maybe the injuries have caught up with him. MCD is claerly our top defensemen and stralman and girardi are next in line. Im hoping Staal can get back to form that would be huge

 

[LeetchisGod]

Marc Staal goes through a very, very small stretch of, not bad, but average hockey and now people are entertaining trading him. He has been fantastic this year, looks closer to the form he was at a few years ago.

....these boards never cease to amaze

This isn't even remotely true. He's been mediocre at best this season. He was playing the best hockey of his career leading up to his eye injury. I have not seen much evidence of that form so far this year.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

You guys think Staal's vision is the issue? Will he come back to what he was last year ever or is he done as what he was for good? I know there's no way of knowing, but what a shame it would be, can something like site be fixed? Maybe he needs to get used to it?

 

[smoneil]

Marc Staal goes through a very, very small stretch of, not bad, but average hockey and now people are entertaining trading him. He has been fantastic this year, looks closer to the form he was at a few years ago.

....these boards never cease to amaze

I've seen every game this season, and Marc Staal is one of my favorite players on this roster. He's only had 2 games this year where he looked like he did before the eye injury. In many of the other games (more then 10, including the first ~12 and the most recent few) he has been a downright liability. The time to trade him is not now (he's earned the right to more time to work things out), but this has been his worst, by far, season of his career. And that's coming from someone more inclined to stick up for him than bash him.

 

[BroadwayHustle]

You guys think Staal's vision is the issue? Will he come back to what he was last year ever or is he done as what he was for good? I know there's no way of knowing, but what a shame it would be, can something like site be fixed? Maybe he needs to get used to it?

I don't think its the vision tbh, I just think he is second guessing himself and playing a bit tentative. Before concussion he became what the Rangers thought he could after drafting him. Not just a shutdown defenseman, but a good 2-way dman. He was skating the puck up the ice and making plays. Even after he came back from the concussion he showed this ability, but he has not shown it after the eye injury.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I don't think its the vision tbh, I just think he is second guessing himself and playing a bit tentative. Before concussion he became what the Rangers thought he could after drafting him. Not just a shutdown defenseman, but a good 2-way dman. He was skating the puck up the ice and making plays. Even after he came back from the concussion he showed this ability, but he has not shown it after the eye injury.

That would be great. It would be sad if the guy just fell off the face of the earth.