Speculation: Trade Rumors/Speculation Thread Part VI: Do Something

[cd211]

The ideais to get something for him before he leaves for nothing. Long term pieces.

hes a leader in the room.. once Richards is gone.. he will be wearing an A.. he's not going anywhere..

plus we just speculate all day long..

he started a family here, plays for a org 6 franchise, in one of the greatest city in the world..

hes part of the core here, and prob is treated amazing by the rangers..

for the abuse he takes, he stays healthy and hasn't missed more then 5 games in the past 5yrs..

rangers will pay him, and cant afford to let him leave..

 

[Kwayry]

You're making just as many assumptions as he is. You don't know that Girardi will take a bargain contract anymore than anyone knows that he won't.

Touche, but given what McDonagh took, I think I am closer than the conventional wisdom around here of 5M+

Gardiner has a ton of potential. He's a fantastic skater, can actually run a power-play, and can play the right side.

He hasn't proven any of that consistently so far at the NHL level.

If the team decides he's not a long-term piece, then it behooves them to trade him for someone who can be. Pretty simple.

Agree, except we don't know if the team made that decision and if they did I don't think Gardiner is the piece.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Oh good. The xenophobe card is in play.

Stralman is a very, very good bottom pairing guy who can play 2nd pairing minutes if necessary. He's certainly not optimal, and he's been far from our 2nd best defender this year. Staal, McDonagh and Girardi are superior players. Period.

He makes far fewer mistakes than Staal and Girardi this season. And even if that's true I fail to see how he's not a top 4 D-man, you've mentioned THREE guys on one of the deeper bluelines in the NHL. Whether he was our 2nd best D-man this season is arguable, him not being top 4, maybe on St. Louis or something, but that's like saying someone's not a 2nd line center because he'd be a 3rd line center on Pittsburgh. It's laughable to say he's not a top pairing D-man. If the guy were either a North American or a 1st round pick the perception would be completely different of him. The guy makes solid solid plays every game and doesn't give up much, or make stupid mistakes. What more do you want? Staal and Girardi are far more mistake prone than him this year. I don't even think Girardi fits in our system.

 

[Trxjw]

Touche, but given what McDonagh took, I think I am closer than the conventional wisdom around here of 5M+

McDonagh's contract contains several RFA years. Girardi's a group III and his next deal is likely going to be a retirement contract. He's not going to leave money on the table.

He hasn't proven any of that consistently so far at the NHL level.

He was fantastic under Wilson, and has struggled to find a place with Carlyle at the helm. The Leafs have a lot invested in Rielly, and he's getting the nod over Gardiner right now.

Agree, except we don't know if the team made that decision and if they did I don't think Gardiner is the piece.

We don't know if they did, but if they choose to go that route, Gardiner is a very good piece.

 

[NYR Viper]

hes a leader in the room.. once Richards is gone.. he will be wearing an A.. he's not going anywhere..

plus we just speculate all day long..

he started a family here, plays for a org 6 franchise, in one of the greatest city in the world..

hes part of the core here, and prob is treated amazing by the rangers..

for the abuse he takes, he stays healthy and hasn't missed more then 5 games in the past 5yrs..

rangers will pay him, and cant afford to let him leave..

So you pay him 5+ million per year? I wouldn't.

The Rangers can t afford to pay a 30 year old defensive dman 5+ million per season.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

And I never called anyone xenophobic, I don't think people are necessarily biased against Stralman consciously. I have a feeling if Stralman played like McDonagh he would have people say how soft he is and complain too. Not necessarily maliciously, but there's a stereotype that Europeans are soft that still permeates and it often at least subconsciously (sometimes consciously) affects people's perceptions of players.

 

[Trxjw]

He makes far fewer mistakes than Staal and Girardi this season. And even if that's true I fail to see how he's not a top 4 D-man, you've mentioned THREE guys on one of the deeper bluelines in the NHL. Whether he was our 2nd best D-man this season is arguable, him not being top 4, maybe on St. Louis or something, but that's like saying someone's not a 2nd line center because he'd be a 3rd line center on Pittsburgh. It's laughable to say he's not a top pairing D-man. If the guy were either a North American or a 1st round pick the perception would be completely different of him. The guy makes solid solid plays every game and doesn't give up much, or make stupid mistakes. What more do you want? Staal and Girardi are far more mistake prone than him this year. I don't even think Girardi fits in our system.

He's also faced weaker competition over his career than two of those three players, and has had plenty of his own issues adjusting to the man-to-man coverage in his own zone. Making the argument that he's "top 4 by default" isn't really all that impressive either.

If the team had a reliable #4 defender who could play the right-side, there's not a doubt in my mind that Stralman would be back on the bottom pairing. Simple as that.

What's laughable in all of this is implying that any of it has to do with him being a Swede. If that's really the case, I'm just going to go ahead and assume that all of your "Lundqvist is no longer elite" crap is just because he's Swedish.

 

[Kwayry]

McDonagh's contract contains several RFA years. Girardi's a group III and his next deal is likely going to be a retirement contract. He's not going to leave money on the table.



He was fantastic under Wilson, and has struggled to find a place with Carlyle at the helm. The Leafs have a lot invested in Rielly, and he's getting the nod over Gardiner right now.



We don't know if they did, but if they choose to go that route, Gardiner is a very good piece.

I will just agree to disagree on Gardiner, but let me ask, why is Gardiner getting the benefit of the doubt, but DZ is not? I find that peculiar.
As to McDonagh, I understand the contract situation is different between Girardi and McDonagh. My point is McDonagh unquestionably left money on the table. Girardi will also leave some on the table to stay in NY. He absolutely loves it in NY, loves his teammates, is a leader and respected in the locker room. I feel he will give them a hometown discount to stay in NY.

 

[Raspewtin]

At this point in their careers, I trust Stralman more than Girardi. I honestly though Strals would take a step back in AV's system, but he's been solid as ever defensively. Torts really resurrected his NHL career. I'm glad we've got him.

That being said, I'm kinda wearry about playing him Girardi's minutes.

I still think Girardi should be traded, I like Gardiner, but I want more than just him.

 

[cd211]

So you pay him 5+ million per year? I wouldn't.

The Rangers can t afford to pay a 30 year old defensive dman 5+ million per season.

he will not get 5m+

he will get 4.5-5m and yes i would pay him up to 5m.. it wont be a 8yr deal.. it will be 4yr or 5 tops..
4yr-20m most likely.. caps going up and he stays healthy.. he can always be traded down the line later years if play cmpletely falls off the face of the earth..but at the end of day hes loves nyr and they love him.. he will take a discount and less to stay with nyr..

hank will prob sign a 5yr tops 7.5 AAV

Callahan will sign same as girardi

gardinar is a very similar player to DZ your not going to trade Dz for similar kind of player.. top 6 player in similar situation as him.. or packaged with picks and prospects for top 4 d..

again why trade dz for just trading dz.. AV has to put him in a place to succeed.. kids to too talented to give up on and give away for same type of player..

i think unless a big name top 6 player is available dz is not going to be swapped for a lateral move..

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

Girardi is not being moved this year. He'll likely walk in the offseason.

Del Zotto will be moved. When he is moved, McIlrath will take his place. He needs to. McIlrath is supposed to be Girardi's replacement. The org needs to see what they have with him. Half a year in the big leagues should give them an accurate picture of where he stacks up in their long term plans.

Falk and Moore will alternate as the 6th defenseman. Against grittier teams, Falk will come in. Against more offensive minded teams, Moore will step in.

Girardi is as good as gone next year. Highly doubt the organization will pay him what he wants. He doesn't fit AV's system. He doesn't move the puck well, he's no longer the physical presence he once was, and he's losing a step. Not in the longterm plans anymore. Some team will overpay, it won't be the Rangers.

 

[The Gloaming]

Um...David Clarkson?

UFA's get overpaid and Callahan and Girardi will find some bonehead GM that wants to give them $6 million +.

Girardi being overrated around the league probably won't help. He will get more than 5 million, and I don't want it to be the Rangers who give it to him. He's already slowing down.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

he will not get 5m+

he will get 4.5-5m and yes i would pay him up to 5m.. it wont be a 8yr deal.. it will be 4yr or 5 tops..
4yr-20m most likely.. caps going up and he stays healthy.. he can always be traded down the line later years if play cmpletely falls off the face of the earth..but at the end of day hes loves nyr and they love him.. he will take a discount and less to stay with nyr..

hank will prob sign a 5yr tops 7.5 AAV

Callahan will sign same as girardi

gardinar is a very similar player to DZ your not going to trade Dz for similar kind of player.. top 6 player in similar situation as him.. or packaged with picks and prospects for top 4 d..

again why trade dz for just trading dz.. AV has to put him in a place to succeed.. kids to too talented to give up on and give away for same type of player..

i think unless a big name top 6 player is available dz is not going to be swapped for a lateral move..

Girardi could command over 5.5 for 5-6. Are you willing to have another Redden deal? Some team will get stuck with it.

 

[Trxjw]

I will just agree to disagree on Gardiner, but let me ask, why is Gardiner getting the benefit of the doubt, but DZ is not? I find that peculiar.
As to McDonagh, I understand the contract situation is different between Girardi and McDonagh. My point is McDonagh unquestionably left money on the table. Girardi will also leave some on the table to stay in NY. He absolutely loves it in NY, loves his teammates, is a leader and respected in the locker room. I feel he will give them a hometown discount to stay in NY.

I don't know what Del Zotto has to do with it. He's demonstrated time and time again that he cannot play the right side, which makes him a bottom-pairing guy on this team. Hence he's being wasted. I've been one of Del Zotto's biggest supporters, but it's pretty clear the team is ready to move on from him.

McDonagh's contract is structured for him to cash in on his 3rd deal. I'd be willing to bet that Girardi loves his family more than anything that has to do with the Rangers. If he's going to get more money to provide for his wife and kid, and be closer to their families, then I could easily see him walking away.

Messier had those qualities you listed, and he ran off to Vancouver chasing more money. Money talks.

 

[Riverdale]

Girardi needs to be traded if he is going to walk. Which I think he will.

He can get a lot of money on the open market - there is going to be a handful of GMs willing to pay him a lot more than he is worth.

 

[cd211]

Girardi could command over 5.5 for 5-6. Are you willing to have another Redden deal? Some team will get stuck with it.

its not going to be like that.. and it wont take a crazy long ass deal to sign him...

thats like saying dustin brown couldv'e signed for 8m for 7yrs if he hit fa

hjalmarsson signed extremely cheap

bowemester signed for cheap..

its about the situation your playing in.. your a top team in the league, always in the playoffs for basically your entire career with the exception of 1yr, and a leader of the team and respected by the org..

if they dont sign girardi then yeah they may over pay someone in Fa that prob wont live up to their deal.. girardi wont ask for a ton of $$$

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

Girardi needs to be traded if he is going to walk. Which I think he will.

He can get a lot of money on the open market - there is going to be a handful of GMs willing to pay him a lot more than he is worth.

He's not being traded. I guarantee you that Sather isn't going to punt this season away. This team isn't far away. We've been toe to toe with Boston both times we've played them. That's a pretty big measuring stick. This team hasn't fully clicked yet. We're a few pieces away from that. Additions, not subtractions.

Girardi is part of the core. Trading him means killing part of the locker room. He's a vet presence that's integral to it. That's why I say trading him would be punting the season.

Rangerboy said something earlier along the lines of taking a step back to take 2 steps forward. Trading Girardi does that. Sather won't do that though. We're close. We'll be buyers, not sellers.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

its not going to be like that.. and it wont take a crazy long ass deal to sign him...

thats like saying dustin brown couldv'e signed for 8m for 7yrs if he hit fa

hjalmarsson signed extremely cheap

bowemester signed for cheap..

its about the situation your playing in.. your a top team in the league, always in the playoffs for basically your entire career with the exception of 1yr, and a leader of the team and respected by the org..

if they dont sign girardi then yeah they may over pay someone in Fa that prob wont live up to their deal.. girardi wont ask for a ton of $$$

Hometown discount and not asking for a lot of money are two entirely different things. Many teams are looking for defense. Girardi is absolutely a commodity. You're grossly underestimating his value on the market and also what he'll command on it, hometown discount or not.

Players go where the $$ is. This isn't lala land. Some players get lucky and their preferred destination/team aligns with the money. Girardi has a family. This is his last big contract. He's going to want to set them up for life. For him, $$ will talk. Just like Prust.

 

[Kwayry]

Stralman is supposed to be the offensive Dman, why hasn't he produced more offensively?

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

Stralman is supposed to be the offensive Dman, why hasn't he produced more offensively?

His game evolved under Torts. He came in with that label. Turned his success around when he began focusing more on defense. Now he's one of our better defensively responsible players. It's likely the aspect he focuses on in practice since it led to his success. He went from fringe 6/7th dman to solid top 4....

 

[Fitzy]

We talked about this, teams should be keeping all the assets they can; long term cap space is not going to be an issue if it keeps rising as projected.

If NYR can re-sign everyone they have to a long term deal, it is a good thing. Maybe we have to put off signing anyone from outside the organization, but in the long run it prevents creating as many holes as we try to fill.

There are not going to be good free agents on the market. Smart teams will lock their guys up.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

We talked about this, teams should be keeping all the assets they can; long term cap space is not going to be an issue if it keeps rising as projected.

If NYR can re-sign everyone they have to a long term deal, it is a good thing. Maybe we have to put off signing anyone from outside the organization, but in the long run it prevents creating as many holes as we try to fill.

There are not going to be good free agents on the market. Smart teams will lock their guys up.

Smart teams also don't invest a lot of money on depreciating assets. Girardi is exactly that.

 

[cd211]

Hometown discount and not asking for a lot of money are two entirely different things. Many teams are looking for defense. Girardi is absolutely a commodity. You're grossly underestimating his value on the market and also what he'll command on it, hometown discount or not.

Players go where the $$ is. This isn't lala land. Some players get lucky and their preferred destination/team aligns with the money. Girardi has a family. This is his last big contract. He's going to want to set them up for life. For him, $$ will talk. Just like Prust.

prust is an entirely different situation cant compare him..

and im not arguing girardi cant get more on the FA market, thats a given.. i clearly established that realization when i mentioned the players above that shouldve got paid if they hit the FA market (Brown, hjalmarsson, Bowemester, etc) im arguing he still going to be paid well but will take a discount to stay to be in the situation he will be in.. plus cap will be going up to 68-70m next season and eventually even more year after year so a player getting paid 4m now will be 5-6m over the next few years..

and it wont be a long term contract of 5, 6,7, 8 years.. i just think people will be surprised of what he signs for.. he cant get paid crazy bc he doesn't put up a ton of points...

 

[Thirty One]

On the first intermission on the Sens-Wings game on TSN, they are going to talk about the asking price for Gardiner on Insider Trading.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

On the first intermission on the Sens-Wings game on TSN, they are going to talk about the asking price for Gardiner on Insider Trading.

Likely a similar asking price as the Rangers' for Del Zotto.