Speculation: Trade Rumors/Speculation Thread Part VI: Do Something

[BarbaraAlphanse]

miller should be up playing no reason he should be in the a.. he will make mistakes but i rather him play then pyatt/pouliot.. hes the future give him 3rd line minutes..never really was given a consistent chance..



defensively we're fine.. your reaching for something thats not there.. our guys on the backend are warriors.. every game g and mac play against the leagues best and shut them down.. plus your going to have mistakes here and there when yu play 25+ min a night.. nature of the beast.. don't over analyze and nit pick..

We are not fine defensively...

Constant odd man rushes. Constant defensive lapses. The majority of the goals we've been letting up have been odd man rushes or losing people right in front of the net and giving them point blank opportunities 1 v our goalie. Boston exploited us badly yesterday. Backdoor passes all game long. Tampa exploited it even worse.

Our defense is not fine. I'm the last person to nit pick.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

We are not fine defensively...

Constant odd man rushes. Constant defensive lapses. The majority of the goals we've been letting up have been odd man rushes or losing people right in front of the net and giving them point blank opportunities 1 v our goalie. Boston exploited us badly yesterday. Backdoor passes all game long. Tampa exploited it even worse.

Our defense is not fine. I'm the last person to nit pick.

We've been giving up about 2 goals a game since the disastrous start.

Yes, our defense is fine, far from a concern.

 

[StepansLabyrinth]

Most of our defensive issues are mental lapses that look like uncomfortability with our new system. I think guys will make less mistakes as time goes on and adding new players won't fix that since they will likely have to adapt themselves.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

Most of our defensive issues are mental lapses that look like uncomfortability with our new system. I think guys will make less mistakes as time goes on and adding new players won't fix that since they will likely have to adapt themselves.

I'm not advocating for getting new players. I think it's on the coaches to focus our current ones from making the idiotic mistakes they've been making.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

We've been giving up about 2 goals a game since the disastrous start.

Yes, our defense is fine, far from a concern.

Henrik and Cam have played exceeding well...

 

[cd211]

We are not fine defensively...

Constant odd man rushes. Constant defensive lapses. The majority of the goals we've been letting up have been odd man rushes or losing people right in front of the net and giving them point blank opportunities 1 v our goalie. Boston exploited us badly yesterday. Backdoor passes all game long. Tampa exploited it even worse.

Our defense is not fine. I'm the last person to nit pick.

AV makes his d pinch and keep the play alive in the offensive zone and make the opponent go 200ft.. giving up 2 goals a game in todays nhl isn't terrible by any stretch... this comment would be ok the first month of the season but come on man we're playing a lot better.. your not going to be perfect every single game and game in and game out.. teams will get a lot of chances here and there.. pointing out a game vs boston and tampa is silly, when boston got blown out by det 6-1.. **** happens.. its a roller coaster ride to the finish.. our d core is top 5 in this league..

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

AV makes his d pinch and keep the play alive in the offensive zone and make the opponent go 200ft.. giving up 2 goals a game in todays nhl isn't terrible by any stretch... this comment would be ok the first month of the season but come on man we're playing a lot better.. your not going to be perfect every single game and game in and game out.. teams will get a lot of chances here and there.. pointing out a game vs boston and tampa is silly, when boston got blown out by det 6-1.. **** happens.. its a roller coaster ride to the finish.. our d core is top 5 in this league..

I think it can be top 5. To do so they need to come into every game the same way Henrik and Cam come into every game. Focused and hungry.

Where did that fire go from McD and G? I can't be the only one that notices the decrease in play by both of those players, defensively. MDZ can be the whipping boy but the 2 I just mentioned shouldn't be exempt from their fall in play.

And again, 2 goals avg per game should win us a lot of games... but how much can those results be attributed to Hank and Cam playing great and not necessarily because the defense is top 5?

 

[Tawnos]

AV's system and philosophy relies on goalies to be good. That's no surprise and was no secret. Luongo was thought of as one of the best in the league playing in AV's system pretty much until the SCF in 2011 and the subsequent goalie controversy with Schneider.

The D is doing the job it's supposed to. Their positioning is great for 95% of the game and most of their pinches and puck attack have been well-timed. The goalies are doing the job they're supposed to. They're standing tall for much of the other 5%.

kenjets, I think you might be fooled by watching D and expecting them to play zone when they're not. It looks like they're out of position a lot, compared to Tortorella's system, but they're really doing exactly what they're supposed to be doing.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

AV's system and philosophy relies on goalies to be good. That's no surprise and was no secret. Luongo was thought of as one of the best in the league playing in AV's system pretty much until the SCF in 2011 and the subsequent goalie controversy with Schneider.

The D is doing the job it's supposed to. Their positioning is great for 95% of the game and most of their pinches and puck attack have been well-timed. The goalies are doing the job they're supposed to. They're standing tall for much of the other 5%.

kenjets, I think you might be fooled by watching D and expecting them to play zone when they're not. It looks like they're out of position a lot, compared to Tortorella's system, but they're really doing exactly what they're supposed to be doing.

I've noticed the fundamental shift in philosophies. Pinching, opening the game, forward responsibilities when pinching, etc. I've noticed the shift from zone to standing at the blue line. I understand that pinches and offensive thinking will create more offensive rushes against us. That being said, I'm talking about the lack of focus by some players.

Just too many lapses at inopportune times for these players for me to believe its coincidental. Fixable, but not coincidental.

 

[The Gloaming]

Don't lump McD with Girardi when talking about their defensive play.

McD has to drag Girardi around, and even then, has looked great doing it.

 

[Tawnos]

I've noticed the fundamental shift in philosophies. Pinching, opening the game, forward responsibilities when pinching, etc. I've noticed the shift from zone to standing at the blue line. I understand that pinches and offensive thinking will create more offensive rushes against us. That being said, I'm talking about the lack of focus by some players.

Just too many lapses at inopportune times for these players for me to believe its coincidental. Fixable, but not coincidental.

Yeah, I don't agree with that all. The "inoppurtune" lapses simply happen in this type of system. Every team that plays this way has those.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

Yeah, I don't agree with that all. The "inoppurtune" lapses simply happen in this type of system. Every team that plays this way has those.

As often as we do?

 

[Tawnos]

As often as we do?

Yes.

Edit: I'm aware that this isn't the best indicator of this kind of thing, but in the two seasons the Canucks won the President's Trophy under AV, they were allowing more than 30 shots per game.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

AV's system and philosophy relies on goalies to be good. That's no surprise and was no secret. Luongo was thought of as one of the best in the league playing in AV's system pretty much until the SCF in 2011 and the subsequent goalie controversy with Schneider.

The D is doing the job it's supposed to. Their positioning is great for 95% of the game and most of their pinches and puck attack have been well-timed. The goalies are doing the job they're supposed to. They're standing tall for much of the other 5%.

kenjets, I think you might be fooled by watching D and expecting them to play zone when they're not. It looks like they're out of position a lot, compared to Tortorella's system, but they're really doing exactly what they're supposed to be doing.

I've noticed the fundamental shift in philosophies. Pinching, opening the game, forward responsibilities when pinching, etc. I've noticed the shift from zone to standing at the blue line. I understand that pinches and offensive thinking will create more offensive rushes against us. That being said, I'm talking about the lack of focus by some players.

Just too many lapses at inopportune times for these players for me to believe its coincidental. Fixable, but not coincidental.

Yeah, I don't agree with that all. The "inoppurtune" lapses simply happen in this type of system. Every team that plays this way has those.

As often as we do?

Yes.

Honestly, the only reason they've been TRULY noticeable is that the Rangers have had such difficulty finishing.

When you don't finish as a result of your good pinches: a) it leads to more dangerous chances than normal, because shots that should have gone in can turn to counterattacks and b) the ones that your goalie does let in are that much more difficult to overcome.

When the Rangers play like they have two of the last three games, you're more than willing to let the other team have their 5%.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

The defense allowed plenty of great chances the last 2 years too. People seem to think that the defense the year before was better every year, maybe outside of 11-12. The reason that team was so stingy was because Lundqvist was playing out of his mind. Like 3 notches above how he's playing now. Since the St. Louis game before today's game we've allowed 1.85 GAA. I'm assuming it'll be similar after this game. Boston didn't expose anything other than the offense. They got far fewer good chances than Talbot faced today. Even most of Hank's biggest supporters are saying he had a down year. Talbot hasn't had to face that many great chances before this game either. If one game we were awful defensively was the Dallas game. Thank you Henrik Lundqvist for that.

 

[Trxjw]

I really like Pacioretty's game, and I think he's a hell of a player, but Nash has the ability to take over a game that Patches just doesn't have. He can single-handedly make tremendous plays, and on a team that's light on elite talent, that sort of player is invaluable.

Desharnais isn't very appealing. Incredibly streaky and is basically a smaller and older version of Brassard.

Tinordi is okay. Great size and intimidating ability, but we already have a superior player in McIlrath and little need for another lefty defender.

Beaulieu is a dynamic offensively minded defender, but he hasn't shown much growth in his own end, and I think he's at least another year away from being a NHL regular. Love his skating and puck moving ability, but he's a project, IMO.

All that being said, there's no way they'd give up on Nash. Brassard to Montreal? Sure, I could see that, but definitely not Nash.

 

[smoneil]

I really like Pacioretty's game, and I think he's a hell of a player, but Nash has the ability to take over a game that Patches just doesn't have. He can single-handedly make tremendous plays, and on a team that's light on elite talent, that sort of player is invaluable.

Desharnais isn't very appealing. Incredibly streaky and is basically a smaller and older version of Brassard.

Tinordi is okay. Great size and intimidating ability, but we already have a superior player in McIlrath and little need for another lefty defender.

Beaulieu is a dynamic offensively minded defender, but he hasn't shown much growth in his own end, and I think he's at least another year away from being a NHL regular. Love his skating and puck moving ability, but he's a project, IMO.

All that being said, there's no way they'd give up on Nash. Brassard to Montreal? Sure, I could see that, but definitely not Nash.

I agree that Pacioretty is a downgrade from Nash, but not a huge one. Basically, in exchange for that downgrade and Brassard, the Rangers get a temporary fill-in for Brassard's spot until Miller is ready (Desharnais), a high end PMD prospect, which is something we don't currently have in the system (Beaulieu) and a first round pick. To top it off, we get about 3.5 million in cap space to add another good piece in trade or FA.

 

[Clown Fiesta]

The whole Habs trade discussion is really pointless but I'll say this, Pacioretty's career production isn't that impressive and he's on pace for 49 pts this season. It's a significant downgrade over Nash who since joining the Rangers has been producing above his career average and well above Pacioretty.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Even if you count the SJ game as a full game when he missed 2 periods, Nash has 9 points in 10 games.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Pacioretty isn't near Nash's level. Good young player, but come on.

 

[Raspewtin]

Supposedly Jamie McGinn of Colorado is available. He plays like a nastier Callahan. They need defense. Anyone in favor?

I personally do McGinn + Barrie for DZ.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

Supposedly Jamie McGinn of Colorado is available. He plays like a nastier Callahan. They need defense. Anyone in favor?

I personally do McGinn + Barrie for DZ.

I wouldn't trade for any defense. McIlrath has next shot. Team needs grit, he adds it. You either package DZ with prospects/picks for a proven scorer or you trade him for an energy forward who hits hard and lays the lumber when someone takes liberties with our players - think Ryan Clowe from 2-3 years ago.

 

[LiveLongandProspal]

Supposedly Jamie McGinn of Colorado is available. He plays like a nastier Callahan. They need defense. Anyone in favor?

I personally do McGinn + Barrie for DZ.

I'd do that deal

 

[RGY]

This is something that makes me a bit uneasy, do we really want to try to beat Boston playing their type of game? Because that is something they are doing pretty well themselves.

Chicago didn't beat them that way.

We played really well against them in the first game this year and in the first period yesterday, by holding on to the puck and taking the play to them.

They ran our D's, we started to throw the puck away, got ourself in trouble, and all of a sudden they pwned us completely. By getting more guys like Neil and co, we will play their game more but do it better. I would be more worried about building a team that can make Boston adopt to you.

Detroit is good at what they are doing, but that 6-1 beating they gave Boston three days ago definitely says alot. Boston can look pretty darn unimpressive too when you make them move around a bit.

It's not about playing Boston's game. It's about playing with some pride and dignity. They laid down and died in the Boston game. I truly admire and appreciate what Boyle did the last two games but he got man-handled badly. I don't mind him getting man-handled if its in defense of his teammates, however, I don't like that he seems to be one or the first to do so. They need another forward who can play the game of hockey (not be a goon like Setito) and defend his teammates. Dorsett is overmatched as well. I was hoping Falk would give it a go with Kassian. They can't get bullied out there. They did against Boston and that puck possession game you speak of Ola, disappeared.

 

[RGY]

Rangers aren't trading Nash. Get real people.

People hating on Girardi as usual though he has played well.

Miller should not be in the NHL right now. He needs big minutes in the A to develop his game more. His defensive game needs work. Though guys like Pyatt and Pouliot have struggled, they are seasoned vets. Let them eat 3rd and 4th line minutes.