Speculation: Trade Rumors/Speculation Thread Part VI: Do Something

[Josh3217]

The Rangers are not one player that MDZ can net away from being anything special. We need big changes, I've finally come to terms with this. Starting with our goalie, Girardi, and maybe even Callahan. Pipe dream, so I have a feeling at least Hank and Callahan will be resigned cripple our cap space and continue to be mediocre at best. I doubt I see a cup contender till at least I'm well into my 30s (I'm 27 now). We haven't been able to come close to winning a cup with Lundqvist any year except the year he had probably one of the best goalie seasons ever an even then we needed 2 game 7s against the 7th and 8th seed and lost to the weakest SC finalist since the Oilers. Playing goalie in the NHL is about as easy, if not easier than playing QB in the NFL now. An elite goalie is no longer needed, IMO. Just a solid unspectacular guy that has the potential money an elite goalie gets go to get some sort of great players on offense and/or defense.

I'd take a look at Hiller in the offseason. Not elite but definitely a capable starter.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

No, they are a couple of pieces away. Unfortunately, they're big pieces.

Agreed.

IMO they need a 1st line center, a top-6 sniper, maybe another top-6 wing, and a legit offensive defenseman.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

That's been the mindset since Jagr starting going nuts. It's delivered exactly 1 trip to the Conference Finals

The Rangers have a lot of good players. It's not like this team is littered with garbage (no pun intended). The Rangers have players that they can win the cup with, they just don't have players that can win you the cup by themselves. Lundqvist was the closest thing we had and it got them 1 ECF. There's a subtle difference. Guys like Stepan, Kreider, Zucc, Hagelin, can play on a cup team and not be considered weak links. It's just that the Rangers need some elite players to surround these guys with. If we had a #1 center to play with Nash on the 1st line, another top line winger we could put Hagelin (a very solid player) with Brassard on the 3rd line, maybe another good winger, and the Stepan line and I think we would be top 10 offensively. With our D that's good enough.

 

[Bardof425*]

get it out of the way now. Boyle for Gallant and a 6th.

Addition by subtraction

 

[SnowblindNYR]

No, they are a couple of pieces away. Unfortunately, they're big pieces.

They need big-time help in the bottom-6, a sniper and another defender.

EXACTLY. Lots of talent on this team, they are however merely mid-level talent. We don't even need a Crosby. A Bergeron or Kreijci would be amazing. That's why I want to trade guys that are not necessary for this team and who will have a high price tag. Maybe get young players that can grow into that role. One thing I know is with elite Lundqvist we've made exactly 1 ECF. Goalies are less important now than ever. Even when they were more important arguably the best goalie ever in Hasek could only make 1 final until he got on a stacked team. We can't let these guys just go. Hopefully a team wants a goalie to bring them over the top. Or maybe a top pairing D-man. I think both Lundqvist and Girardi now have more value than their play should dictate. In case anyone knows accounting they basically have a lot of Goodwill due to their past play.

Goodwill arises when one company acquires another, but pays more than the fair market value of the net assets (total assets - total liabilities).

 

[mike14]

The Rangers have a lot of good players. It's not like this team is littered with garbage (no pun intended). The Rangers have players that they can win the cup with, they just don't have players that can win you the cup by themselves. Lundqvist was the closest thing we had and it got them 1 ECF. There's a subtle difference. Guys like Stepan, Kreider, Zucc, Hagelin, can play on a cup team and not be considered weak links. It's just that the Rangers need some elite players to surround these guys with. If we had a #1 center to play with Nash on the 1st line, another top line winger we could put Hagelin (a very solid player) with Brassard on the 3rd line, maybe another good winger, and the Stepan line and I think we would be top 10 offensively. With our D that's good enough.

I agree with pretty much everything you've written, but the type of guys the Rangers need to win as skilled team aren't generally the guys you can just grab. you either have to finish low enough to draft them (we aren't that bad) or overpay considerably (we don't really have the assets IMO).

For me, Chicago and Boston highlight the two ways you can win a cup; a core of excellent players with the right roll players - Chicago or a team of good/very good players who all play off the same sheet of music - Boston.

During their ECF run, the Rangers were built like Boston. There were a few holes in the lineup but it was 'one-in-all-in' and everyone was on net with each other. Instead of letting that grow and maybe trying to tweak it here and there (add Kreider to the top 9 for example) we moved AA and Dubi (not bad on its own) and lost Prust, Feds and Prospal. As soon as we lost 5 of our top 9, all that team-building went out the window and we were left with a bunch of mismatched parts, which is where we still find ourselves today. The Rangers need to work out what kind of team they want to be and start making the moves to make it happen, with a view of competing for the cup properly in 3-5 years.

 

[Gordon Bombay]

I'd take a look at Hiller in the offseason. Not elite but definitely a capable starter.

Hiller is awful and wouldn't be starting if Fasth wasn't hurt.

 

[Trxjw]

There are more problems with this team than being "a couple pieces away." We have two top line players in Nash and Stepan, several role players being asked to play bigger roles, and a mish-mash of other parts who the GM has basically scrapped together for one reason or another.

? - Stepan - Nash
Kreider - ? - ?
Hagelin - ? - Callahan
? - Boyle/Moore - Dorsett

McDonagh - Girardi
Staal - ?
Moore - Stralman
Falk

Hank
Talbot

That's where I think the team is. I like Zucc, but I'm not sold on him as a 2nd line forward. Richards is done. Brassard lost whatever he found after he was traded here. Both Callahan and Hagelin are capable of playing in the top-six, but I'd prefer to see them bookend the best 3rd line in the NHL, which is what they could be if we had a legitimate 3rd line center.

That's two top-six wingers, another top-six center, a third line center, a 4th line LW, and a 2nd pairing D who can run the PP. That's before you even start considering that Girardi looks to be too slow to play man-to-man defensive coverage and Kreider has all of 18 really good games under his belt.

The worst part is that these are pretty much the same issues that have existed for years now. Management needs to either stop trying to shop the bargain bin and start listening to offers on some of the top prospects so they can bring in the right talent, or they need to jettison some of the pieces that aren't going to be here long-term and make some hard decisions about the core that's been her for 4+ years now.

The big question is: If you move guys like Callahan or Girardi, does Hank stick around for the "retooling" that is sure to follow? I highly doubt it.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

If we could get a sizable second line center to put with Kreider, I wouldn't mind Zucc slotting in as a 2RW. Maybe that player can be Miller.

 

[Josh3217]

Hiller is awful and wouldn't be starting if Fasth wasn't hurt.

Hiller 2.69 GAA .904Sv%
Fasth 2.95 GAA .885Sv%

How is Fasth so much better than Hiller?

 

[Gordon Bombay]

Hiller 2.69 GAA .904Sv%
Fasth 2.95 GAA .885Sv%

Why is Hiller awful and Fasth starting over him?

Because those numbers are based off a quarter of a season in which Fasth has been injured. Last year Fasth had the job from him. I'm not even sure Hiller is gonna hold off Fredrick Anderson for much longer, who's been much superior.

If you're gonna get rid of Hank, I hope you're gonna replace him with someone better than Hiller.

 

[BroadwayBlues]

A bold move may need to made. Trading someone that you would not even have entertained the idea of before.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Would rather go for Halak if we're going the UFA goalie route.

 

[jeromeo87]

Canes fan here. Anyway Brassard is available?

Jiri Tlusty, Riley Nash, + for him?

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

A bold move may need to made. Trading someone that you would not even have entertained the idea of before.

*cough*Callahan*cough*Girardi*cough*

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Canes fan here. Anyway Brassard is available?

Jiri Tlusty, Riley Nash, + for him?

He could be available, but I doubt Sather move him if he plans on amnestying Richards, which is almost an assurance.

I can't say the offer is terrible, but I don't think Tlusty does anymore to help than Brassard.

 

[BroadwayBlues]

*cough*Callahan*cough*Girardi*cough*

Exactly my thoughts. I would throw Staal into that too.

 

[Clown Fiesta]

Not sure I agree. The lack of finish is an issue, but the quality of chances is generally pretty low. A dynamic point presence on the PP would go a long way to creating higher quality scoring chances. Size in the middle would create space to get better scoring chances. Etc, etc.

What do all those chances get you if no one can score?

We're already generating 10-15 chances a game according to Arniel.

 

[Vidic15*]

*cough*Callahan*cough*Girardi*cough*

At this point, Sather would have to be dumb to not listen to offers for the two of them. The return on both of them would still have us in a position to make the playoffs.

 

[Josh3217]

Callahan, Girardi, Staal, Stralman, Brassard, Boyle, Hagelin could all be had for the right price I assume.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Agreed.

IMO they need a 1st line center, a top-6 sniper, maybe another top-6 wing, and a legit offensive defenseman.

I would just copy and paste this so you can use it every season where Sather remains the architect.

 

[Clown Fiesta]

Callahan won't be dealt, AV doesn't like MDZ so moving another defenseman is going to cause an issue but I'd definitely be willing to move one of Staal or Girardi.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I agree with pretty much everything you've written, but the type of guys the Rangers need to win as skilled team aren't generally the guys you can just grab. you either have to finish low enough to draft them (we aren't that bad) or overpay considerably (we don't really have the assets IMO).

For me, Chicago and Boston highlight the two ways you can win a cup; a core of excellent players with the right roll players - Chicago or a team of good/very good players who all play off the same sheet of music - Boston.

During their ECF run, the Rangers were built like Boston. There were a few holes in the lineup but it was 'one-in-all-in' and everyone was on net with each other. Instead of letting that grow and maybe trying to tweak it here and there (add Kreider to the top 9 for example) we moved AA and Dubi (not bad on its own) and lost Prust, Feds and Prospal. As soon as we lost 5 of our top 9, all that team-building went out the window and we were left with a bunch of mismatched parts, which is where we still find ourselves today. The Rangers need to work out what kind of team they want to be and start making the moves to make it happen, with a view of competing for the cup properly in 3-5 years.

I honestly think that 11-12 team was a mirage and would have been exposed if changes weren't made. They coincided with Hank's best season of his career. They also scored timely goals. They managed to have a lot of games where they scored 3 goals. They almost never scored 5 goals and only once scored 6 goals. They also pretty rarely scored 0 or 1 goals. In the end of the day they managed to be extremely consistent with their goal scoring. Few games where they scored a lot, few games where they scored a little, with a good D, a good system, good defensive forwards, and a lights out Lundqvist that will get you 109 points. However, I just don't think that type of consistency from a team that lacked so much in offensive firepower is something that you can see beyond one season. I honestly think it's a fluke. There's no way a team with one bonafide star and 2 first liners (and let's not forget that Richards was awful for a couple of months) can score that consistently. They just had a fluky season. The D was also, IMO overrated. Watching the D now I really don't think it's any worse in the last 20 games or so. We had some bad games, but so did that team. That team allowed 3 goals every game as soon as Lundqvist slumped in March (to be fair the D slumped some too). That team needed changes. They needed at least one more 1st line talent. (Like this team needs 2 more of them). How do you get that without giving up a McDonagh or Kreider? Quantity for quality. Unfortunately we lost a lot of depth. However, that's not the full story. Our 2 best forwards from 11-12 turned to ass last season. Add that to depth problems and you have last season till the trades. This season we were missing Nash for most of it, Stepan is not the same guy, and even the players that are playing well are still not playing like top line players.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

I would just copy and paste this so you can use it every season where Sather remains the architect.

Yeah, I feel like I've been saying this every year I've watched this team.

 

[jeromeo87]

Callahan won't be dealt, AV doesn't like MDZ so moving another defenseman is going to cause an issue but I'd definitely be willing to move one of Staal or Girardi.

Is Staal's value still as high as it has been?