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Speculation: Trade Rumors/Speculation Thread Part VI: Do Something

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it was a good idea.. bc if you look back we had Kreider coming off an amazing playoff performance as a rookie, and we were going to count on him to step in be big for us (secondary/depth scoring).. the trade was fillling a need for another superstar scorer, after a rough end to the playoffs..

i think loosing Dubi and Prust hurt the most.. they dictated the pace of play for us.. i wish we had them still..

that trade we had to do for a scorer 10/10 times..

this summer we shouldve went hard for bobby ryan.. they traded silve 1st..we shouldve tried packaging DZ, miller/fast/lindberg, 1st.. i would've tried hard to get him..

when a scorer is available you have to try and better your club


but moving on..

i think we should try dz, bras, prospect 3rd for Barrie and stasny and call it a day.. it helps us now and future
 
RB, the only hole I see in your scenario is what to do with Dorsett. He's a good energy guy, but I was expecting him to contribute more on the scoresheet. I'm not sure he'll fetch a young roster player on an ELC like you think he would.

Otherwise, bang on.
 
Who else would be of interest in the Maple Leafs organization if we trade Girardi and Del Zotto besides Gardiner?
 
Saw that that would have been in addition to gardener. Even still, not enough for trading 2 top 4 dmen.
 
I posted on the alternatives to replace BR yesterday with a center that would be a true no 1 infront of Stepan.

On a bit of a related topic, it is interested to see how well Tampa have been doing this season after replacing Lecavalier with Filpulla. All the while Lecavalier actually has been one of few bright spots in Philly, not really looking worn out etc, and Filpulla being very strong for Tampa in terms of 2-way hockey but definitely not sticking out in terms of true top end ability and performance.

My point is just, maybe "not" replacing BR isn't that horrible of an option either. Keep building on the youth we have.
 
Savant said:
I don't think the team should have any sacred cows. Trading Callahan would be an EXTREMELY bitter pill but I am not necessarily opposed to it. With AV in charge you could make him the scapegoat in such a move, asset wise the thought of Callahan getting Dustin Brown money is very dangerous to the team's long term stability, not that Sather cares about that. That being said I don't see a Callahan trade happening.
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I agree in principle, but I think Callahan and Girardi are so much more than "sacred cows".

They could become that late in contracts about to be signed soon. But right now, I think they are the core of this team and what gives us the character we have. I think they have a large direct positive influence on the team and the players around them.

If dumped/dealt/we let them walk, I think it would show. In the attitude and how we carry ourself during games. How young players or new players that came to the team and what attitude they adopts etc.

You get a lot of stuff for free when having guys like Callahan or Girardi that you won't really miss before you don't have it.
 
azaloum90 said:
Listen, in all honesty, as much as it sucks that we lost to get Nash, and then lost Gabs to get back what we lost in Nash, it may have been a good thing as we have a few players that are good to keep around long term (John Moore specifically, but Dorsett is a favored player of mine, and Brassard is about as good as Dubs), as well as several players that were used in the time of need as fillers with contracts expiring that have NO time invested in them (Pouliot, Pyatt, etc). It will be very easy for those guys to walk away instead of going down the same path Torts had been taking the team down (which was worn away after 11-12).

We'll see SOME turnover next season, but not a ton. I'd would like to avoid gutting the entire bottom 6
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Savant said:
The Rick Nash trade everyone thought was a good idea at the time

The Gaborik trade was the crossroads moment in my opinion. It was at that point I thought Torts would get another year. I would have canned Torts midseason and tried to get a coach that could have gotten Gaborik and Nash to be used to their fullest. I knew at a point last year it would have come down to Gaborik or Torts, I was very bummed when it found out they would have neither.
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You guys don't have to tell me. I am still a top-5 defender of the Nash trade. I also thought trading Gaborik was correct, but did not like the return so much. I like Dorsett and Moore is okay, but I've never been a fan of Brassard.

I was just pointing out that Sather has in fact made trades since the second lockout to attempt to put this team, "over the top."
 
Raspewtin said:
Does anyone else think we should trade Callahan before season's end?

As much as I love the guy, we just know some dumbass GM will throw 6x6 at him and the rest will be history. Also he can't stay healthy, for the life of him. I'm not even remotely interested in paying more than 5 mill a year for him.

What would you guys do?
Click to expand...

David Clarkson, end of discussion.

See ya later, captain.
 
Ola said:
I posted on the alternatives to replace BR yesterday with a center that would be a true no 1 infront of Stepan.

On a bit of a related topic, it is interested to see how well Tampa have been doing this season after replacing Lecavalier with Filpulla. All the while Lecavalier actually has been one of few bright spots in Philly, not really looking worn out etc, and Filpulla being very strong for Tampa in terms of 2-way hockey but definitely not sticking out in terms of true top end ability and performance.

My point is just, maybe "not" replacing BR isn't that horrible of an option either. Keep building on the youth we have.
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Richards is not really a 1st line center at this stage of his career. If he were then I could see more reason to hang on to him. I think so far he's played well at least as compared to last year but he is on the decline and there are 6 more years after this one to his contract. Amnestying him will create a hole and it may not be easy to replace him with a comparable player even at the level he is now for a while but IMO it's not only the right but the best thing to do.

Ola said:
I agree in principle, but I think Callahan and Girardi are so much more than "sacred cows".

They could become that late in contracts about to be signed soon. But right now, I think they are the core of this team and what gives us the character we have. I think they have a large direct positive influence on the team and the players around them.

If dumped/dealt/we let them walk, I think it would show. In the attitude and how we carry ourself during games. How young players or new players that came to the team and what attitude they adopts etc.

You get a lot of stuff for free when having guys like Callahan or Girardi that you won't really miss before you don't have it.
Click to expand...

It's possible that one of them could move but losing both Callahan and Girardi would be a disaster. For those who compare Callahan to Drury I don't buy it. Callahan's a better skater and a grittier, more determined player than Drury ever was for us--and Callahan has big moments. He's not like Messier--all the time big moments but he has enough.

Under AV's system Girardi's time on ice has gone down. IMO he's a solider guy than Stralman in his own end and more able to face off against the league's best players because of size, strength and positioning but he doesn't quite have the same edge over Stralman then he did when Tortorella was coach. Stralman is quicker and slicker with the puck. Stralman should be a guy putting up more offense--he's not getting much pwp time--that might help him. I'd hate to lose either of those guys because the right defense position these days--it's very hard to find good ones.
 
Erat & Orlov for MDZ, Pyatt & a mid-level prospect/pick
Brassard for P Berglund
Something for Ott around the deadline (in typical Sather fashion)
Makes too much sense

FORWARDS
Martin Erat ($4.500m) / Brad Richards ($6.667m) / Rick Nash ($7.800m)
Chris Kreider ($0.800m) / Derek Stepan ($3.075m) / Mats Zuccarello ($1.150m)
Carl Hagelin ($2.250m) / Patrik Berglund ($3.200m) / Ryan Callahan ($4.275m)
Brian Boyle ($1.700m) / Dominic Moore ($1.000m) / Derek Dorsett ($1.633m)
Benoit Pouliot ($1.300m)

DEFENSEMEN
Ryan McDonagh ($4.700m) / Dan Girardi ($3.325m)
Marc Staal ($3.975m) / Anton Stralman ($1.700m)
John Moore ($0.840m) / Dmitry Orlov ($0.690m)
Justin Falk ($0.975m) /
GOALTENDERS
Henrik Lundqvist ($6.875m)
Cameron Talbot ($0.563m)
BUYOUTS
Wade Redden ($0.000m)
BURIED
Arron Asham ($0.075m)
Darroll Powe ($0.142m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2013-14 crunched using simulation date of 2013-11-29)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; BONUSES: $860,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $1,386,029
 
BBKers said:
Erat & Orlov for MDZ, Pyatt & a mid-level prospect/pick
Brassard for P Berglund
Something for Ott around the deadline (in typical Sather fashion)
Makes too much sense

FORWARDS
Martin Erat ($4.500m) / Brad Richards ($6.667m) / Rick Nash ($7.800m)
Chris Kreider ($0.800m) / Derek Stepan ($3.075m) / Mats Zuccarello ($1.150m)
Carl Hagelin ($2.250m) / Patrik Berglund ($3.200m) / Ryan Callahan ($4.275m)
Brian Boyle ($1.700m) / Dominic Moore ($1.000m) / Derek Dorsett ($1.633m)
Benoit Pouliot ($1.300m)

DEFENSEMEN
Ryan McDonagh ($4.700m) / Dan Girardi ($3.325m)
Marc Staal ($3.975m) / Anton Stralman ($1.700m)
John Moore ($0.840m) / Dmitry Orlov ($0.690m)
Justin Falk ($0.975m) /
GOALTENDERS
Henrik Lundqvist ($6.875m)
Cameron Talbot ($0.563m)
BUYOUTS
Wade Redden ($0.000m)
BURIED
Arron Asham ($0.075m)
Darroll Powe ($0.142m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2013-14 crunched using simulation date of 2013-11-29)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; BONUSES: $860,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $1,386,029
Click to expand...

W one yr left Erat may be worth a look
 
Calgary Flames just lost D.Wideman last night for 6-8 weeks cue the DZ to Calgary rumors(again).

I don't see much a match with us but I'm sure they have a couple kids in the minors--doesn't help the big club today.
 
With the new Canadian TV deal being bigger than expected and league revenue steadily increasing the cap should go up to the extent that we could keep this core together (maybe minus Del Zotto) going forward, but is it prudent?

I mean letting Cally and Girardi walk is obviously idiotic, but I'm definitely in the "trade" camp at the moment.

I'd say we are currently in the status of "is this core good enough to bet on, or should we do a re-tool and look to contend in a year or two?"

I think this core is good enough to contend, but it is more in the San José echelon than in the Chicago if you get what I mean. We are currently getting shafted by low percentages (like the Kings were in 2011-12) and I'm convinced that this is a legitimately good team. Top-3 in the East for sure. But on the other hand it isn't a indisputable top-3 team in the league like the Blackhawks are, but rather somewhere in that top 8-10 leaguewide. Probably good enough for a few conference finals, maybe a cup final or two, and maybe even a cup. But I also feel that with a re-tool this team could reach that elite echelon.

Let's take a look at the current makeup of the Rangers:

1st line: Hagelin-Richards-Nash. Grade: B+

Hagelin-Stepan-Nash probably was the best 1st line in the league last year, and while Richards isn't Stepan, this should still be a "good" 1st line 5v5.

2nd line: Kredier-Stepan-Zuccarello. Grade: A

This line is dangerous as hell, definitely one of the better second lines in the league as they are currently playing. Maybe even the best.

3rd line: Pouliot-Brassard-Callahan. Grade: B-

Talent-wise probably one of the best third lines in the league, maybe the best, but they haven't really gotten it going on the ice. Pouliot will in all likelihood not be kept, but one of the talented kids should be able to take his spot going forward.

4th line: Boyle-D. Moore-Dorsett. Grade: A

At least a top-3 4th line in the league, I probably have them at #1. Would be alright as a 3rd line. The players could become expensive to keep though.

1st pairing: McDonagh-Girardi. Grade: B-

Don't get me wrong, McDonagh is a stud. But they have been struggling for a while and compared to other 1st pairings in the league they are not in the top-10 IMO.

2nd pairing: Staal-Strålman. Grade: A.

Likely the best 2nd pairing in the league, at worst top-3.

3rd pairing: Moore-Del Zotto. Grade: B+.

Can be a bit of an adventure at times, but compared to other 3rd pairings around the league they are really good.

Goaltending: Lundqvist-Talbot. Grade: A

Talbot has been great so far, and Hank is Hank.

So while we likely could keep this core together going forward, maybe it would be better to trade Callahan and Girardi for assests and use those assets to acquire a legit 1RD (or maybe 1C, though 1RD is a bigger need IMO).

Not that it would be possible, but imagine this team with a Subban-type (or maybe even Karlsson, *drool*) player but without Callahan, Girardi and Del Zotto. It would SO much better.

Liquidate Callahan+Girardi+MDZ and turn the assets into Seth Jones?
 
BBKers said:
Erat & Orlov for MDZ, Pyatt & a mid-level prospect/pick
Brassard for P Berglund
Something for Ott around the deadline (in typical Sather fashion)
Makes too much sense

FORWARDS
Martin Erat ($4.500m) / Brad Richards ($6.667m) / Rick Nash ($7.800m)
Chris Kreider ($0.800m) / Derek Stepan ($3.075m) / Mats Zuccarello ($1.150m)
Carl Hagelin ($2.250m) / Patrik Berglund ($3.200m) / Ryan Callahan ($4.275m)
Brian Boyle ($1.700m) / Dominic Moore ($1.000m) / Derek Dorsett ($1.633m)
Benoit Pouliot ($1.300m)

DEFENSEMEN
Ryan McDonagh ($4.700m) / Dan Girardi ($3.325m)
Marc Staal ($3.975m) / Anton Stralman ($1.700m)
John Moore ($0.840m) / Dmitry Orlov ($0.690m)
Justin Falk ($0.975m) /
GOALTENDERS
Henrik Lundqvist ($6.875m)
Cameron Talbot ($0.563m)
BUYOUTS
Wade Redden ($0.000m)
BURIED
Arron Asham ($0.075m)
Darroll Powe ($0.142m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2013-14 crunched using simulation date of 2013-11-29)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; BONUSES: $860,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $1,386,029
Click to expand...

BB you trade for Ott and then leave him out of the line up and off the team.

Based on your deals If you did acquire him where are you playing him--tough line up to crack.
 
Cally is a pretty good skater and he got somewhat of a light body. There is no reason to expect him to break down all that faster than anyone else.

Girardi is struggling, but at the same time lets remember that he is a kid who has been able to adjust before. He is not moving the puck well under AV. AV wants his D's to if possible beat the forechecker. To deliver high quality passes up ice to gain offensive advantages instead of just always playing it safe as a rule without exceptions.

I am not giving up on Callahan or Girardi. I mean, if anyone of them are dead-set to hit the UFA market and take the absolute highest offer (probably 6-6+ for G and 7+ for Cally), there is of course a pain-limit somewhere. But I wouldn't dump either of them.
 
Ola said:
Cally is a pretty good skater and he got somewhat of a light body. There is no reason to expect him to break down all that faster than anyone else.

Girardi is struggling, but at the same time lets remember that he is a kid who has been able to adjust before. He is not moving the puck well under AV. AV wants his D's to if possible beat the forechecker. To deliver high quality passes up ice to gain offensive advantages instead of just always playing it safe as a rule without exceptions.

I am not giving up on Callahan or Girardi. I mean, if anyone of them are dead-set to hit the UFA market and take the absolute highest offer (probably 6-6+ for G and 7+ for Cally), there is of course a pain-limit somewhere. But I wouldn't dump either of them.
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But you handcuff yourself by committing to them and basically say: this is how good we are going to be.

A pairing with Girardi will IMO never be truly elite due to his inability to move the puck, it is way to easy for the opposition to get the puck into the zone with Girardi on the ice. It is very difficult to be a consensus top 3 team in the league with Girardi on the ice for 20+ minutes a night, especially if we pay him $5M+ per year.
 
Jabroni said:
Who else would be of interest in the Maple Leafs organization if we trade Girardi and Del Zotto besides Gardiner?
Click to expand...

I am not a big fan of left handed shots on the right side at all. I don't at all believe in MAKING A TRADE for a left shooting D at this point.

I think this is a big problem this org has had under Slats. We just haven't paid much attention to newfangled perspectives of the game.

-10-20 years ago, the set up on the blueline in this regard is not something that matter that much, now it is.

-The more the game becomes a team-game. The more system based the game becomes -- the less amount of turnover you can have on a roster on a yearly basis.

-The better PKers are at getting into shooting lanes and blocking shots, the more important it becomes to really have a hand-picked PP that is built on designed plays and especially structures to freeze a box and find openings -- not individual talent.

I think that we in all these three areas have just fundamentall been careless the last handful of years in NY. We bring in BR without a PP structure that he could work on. We change a boat load of players every season. We have a ton of LDs and one of them should have been traded last season or this summer.

Its time to pay sufficient attention to these details. "Gambling" on another left handed D is not the way to go. Before we know it, the importance for a D to have his stick pointing out towards the boards -- grows -- in the near future. It has become more and more important every year lately, why should that development stop?
 
Trade DZ or Giardi for another D(Gardiner). Swap DZ or Girardi for a forward or a package of futures(#1 pick/roster player/top prospect). Some combination.

Bring up McIlrath.

The Rangers can't wait until July to start finding the pieces.

Gorton and Maxwell should be going over every NHL's AHL team and reserve list looking for top 6 players. Trade for them.
 
I don't get that Gardinier hype. I think he is the same thing as Del Zotto. People also should not be asking for Biggs who is a bust.

I think the Leafs and the Rangers match up quite poorly.
 
why do we want to give up G or DZ for futures or draft picks, especially G? we have enough players with potential, get a real scorer
 
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