Rumor: Trade Rumors and Proposals Thread | Ken Holland, There's Nowhere to Run to, Nowhere to Hide

[Soundwave]

Pittsburgh is a franchise that disproves the whole "you MUST DRAFT WELL or NO SUCCESS" bull shit too ... they've traded their 1st rounder 8 times in the Crosby era.

In every draft after 2006, they've maybe had one really good draft 2013 where they got Jarry in the 2nd round and Guentzel in the 3rd round. Their other drafts are nothing that special.

A lot of the 1st round picks they've taken have been trash ... Angelo Esposito, Simon Despres, Beau Bennett, Joe Morrow, Derrick Pouliot, Kasperi Kapanen, Samuel Poulin.

Kapanen is really the only there worth spit and he's a decent role player, nothing more.

Yet they are good like every single f***ing season. Stop crying that you don't have a Kucherov, Point, whatever fluke run in the draft. That happens as a fluke to a team like once in a decade (the Oilers were that team in the early 80s, Wings in the 90s), it's not a formula you bank on happening for you 100%. Tampa's more recent drafts are mediocre too.

The whole "we're gonna replicate what Tampa did if we draft in the 1st round 20 more times just wait and see!!" thing is delusions of grandeur. More likely they end up with a bunch of Paajarvi's and Yamamoto's and maybe one Eberle at best. Every front office strutting into the draft thinks they're the next Tampa or 90s-era Detroit when 31/32 aren't gonna be that.

 

[belair]

Pittsburgh is a franchise that disproves the whole "you MUST DRAFT WELL or NO SUCCESS" bull shit too ... they've traded their 1st rounder 8 times in the Crosby era.

In every draft after 2006, they've maybe had one really good draft 2013 where they got Jarry in the 2nd round and Guentzel in the 3rd round. Their other drafts are nothing that special.

A lot of the 1st round picks they've taken have been trash ... Angelo Esposito, Simon Despres, Beau Bennett, Joe Morrow, Derrick Pouliot, Kasperi Kapanen, Samuel Poulin.

Kapanen is really the only there worth spit and he's a decent role player, nothing more.

Yet they are good like every single f***ing season. Stop crying that you don't have a Kucherov, Point, whatever fluke run in the draft. That happens as a fluke to a team like once in a decade (the Oilers were that team in the early 80s, Wings in the 90s), it's not a formula you bank on happening for you 100%. Tampa's more recent drafts are mediocre too.

The whole "we're gonna replicate what Tampa did if we draft in the 1st round 20 more times just wait and see!!" thing is delusions of grandeur. More likely they end up with a bunch of Paajarvi's and Yamamoto's and maybe one Eberle at best. Every front office strutting into the draft thinks they're the next Tampa or 90s-era Detroit when 31/32 aren't gonna be that.

Their initial championship core was built through the draft. The center depth, the defense and the goaltending. A lot of those picks turned players were parlayed into players who developed and contributed to the team that won the later Championships.

Nothing is won in Pittsburgh without the draft and proper development. NOTHING. You couldn't be more wrong.

Before you respond, go and look at their draft history dating back to 2000. They literally didn't trade a 1st round pick until the year before they won their first Cup. And that team was 20 games over 0.500. And they traded a handful of their draft busts with that pick for Marian Hossa. So you can see how those 'useless picks' still remain valuable assets.

The very reason their window is closing is due to the mismanagement of that roster and the countless futures that have been purged from that organization trying to salvage what they could of the final years of Crosby, Malkin and Letang.

Where does Edmonton tie into that logic?

 

[Soundwave]

Their initial championship core was built through the draft. The center depth, the defense and the goaltending. A lot of those picks turned players were parlayed into players who developed and contributed to the team that won the later Championships.

Nothing is won in Pittsburgh without the draft. NOTHING. You couldn't be more wrong.

Before you respond, go and look at their draft history dating back to 2000. They literally didn't trade a 1st round pick until the year before they won their first Cup. And that team was 20 games over 0.500. And they traded a handful of draft busts with that pick for Marian Hossa.

The very reason their window is closing is due to the mismanagement of that roster and the countless futures that have been purged from that organization trying to salvage what they could of the final years of Crosby, Malkin and Letang.

Where does Edmonton tie into that logic?

Well yeah they got Crosby, Malkin, MAF, Letang out of one draft burst. So what.

The Oilers got McDavid, Draisaitl, RNH, Nurse, and have now added even Bouchard, Broberg, and several other pieces to that.

The Blackhawks are another example ... they got their core 4 pieces through the draft sure (3 of them being high 1st round picks, so not exactly "stealing" anybody), but their drafting from 2007-2020 has been more or less total ass. They have like one good draft and one of the few good players they actually picked (Danault) they traded away after 32 games.

This team needs how many more drafts to finally have a decent roster? 10 more high picks?

They're not going to be the next Tampa Bay, everyone and their grandma at the draft thinks they are the second coming of Tampa Bay and every player they draft is going to come out the wazoo ... those types of drafting bursts are flukes. If they weren't they would be replicated all the time, Tampa's more recent drafting for example is mediocre.

 

[belair]

Well yeah they got Crosby, Malkin, MAF, Letang out of one draft burst. So what.

The Oilers got McDavid, Draisaitl, RNH, Nurse, and have now added even Bouchard, Broberg, and several other pieces to that.

The Blackhawks are another example ... they got their core 4 pieces through the draft sure, but their drafting from 2007-2020 has been more or less total ass. They have like one good draft and one of the few good players they actually picked (Danault) they traded away after 32 games.

This team needs how many more drafts to finally have a decent roster? 10 more high picks?

They're not going to be the next Tampa Bay, everyone and their grandma at the draft thinks they are the second coming of Tampa Bay and every player they draft is going to come out the wazoo ... those types of drafting bursts are flukes. If they weren't they would be replicated all the time, Tampa's more recent drafting for example is mediocre.

So you didn't look.

 

[Soundwave]

So you didn't look.

Pittsburgh's window is not closing at all, they're are still a top 6-7 team from the looks of things. They could win the Cup this year again especially if they add the right player at the deadline. The only thing "closing" is the inevitability of age, which they seem to be just rolling along with just fine.

They are a contender this year, the Oilers aren't ... that's pathetic.

How many more 1st round picks do we need before we are crowned "geniuses of the NHL"? 10 more? 5? 4? I'm totally sure all those picks will be golden too. Not. They're totally gonna get the next Kucherov if you give these galaxy brain's in Edmonton enough swings at the bat, not the next Yamamoto (a player every team two or three of in their prospect pool).

 

[belair]

Pittsburgh's window is not closing at all, they're are still a top 6-7 team from the looks of things. The only thing "closing" is the inevitability of age, which they seem to be just rolling along with just fine.

They are a contender this year, the Oilers aren't ... that's pathetic.

You clearly didn't look.

We're talking about how the draft built the Pittsburgh Penguins. And if you look at their draft history, you'll see dozens of players who were vital to the development of their Championship rosters. Some contributing players and others used as trade capital to acquire players who won in Pittsburgh.

 

[Soundwave]

You clearly didn't look.

We're taking about how the draft built the Pittsburgh Penguins. And if you look at their draft history, you'll see dozens of players who were vital to the development of their Championship rosters. Some contributing players and others used as trade capital to acquire players who won in Pittsburgh.

The Penguins have been a contender every year since 2006, their draft history from 2007 onwards (which is now 14 years ago, so not exactly just yesterday) is mediocre overall. They have like 1 good draft in the last 14 years. Crosby, Malkin, MAF were no brainer top 3 picks so I don't even count that, anyone would have picked those guys, Letang is basically the one big drafting/scouting win for them in round 3 2005, not a ton more of those kinds of finds for them.

So is Chicago's frankly ... jeezus what an ugly series of drafts from 2007-2020.

If you're going to say "yeah but they got a core group of players" ... so what. The Oilers have got McDavid, Draisaitl, RNH, Nurse, Puljujarvi, Yamamoto, Bouchard, Broberg, as "contributing" players or full on superstars.

How many more pieces needed to be added to that core via 1st round picks? Another 3 or 4 impact players?

Frankly Calgary drafts way better than a lot of these teams when you consider where they find a lot of their home run picks ... Giordano, Gaudreau, Mangipane, Brodie, all from nothing picks. They took Adam Fox too for what that's worth.

 

[belair]

The Penguins have been a contender every year since 2006, their draft history from 2007 onwards (which is now 14 years ago, so not exactly just yesterday) is mediocre overall. They have like 1 good draft in the last 14 years. Crosby, Malkin, MAF were no brainer top 3 picks so I don't even count that, anyone would have picked those guys, Letang is basically the one big drafting/scouting win for them in round 3 2005, not a ton more of those kinds of finds for them.

So is Chicago's frankly ... jeezus what an ugly series of drafts from 2007-2020.

If you're going to say "yeah but they got a core group of players" ... so what. The Oilers have got McDavid, Draisaitl, RNH, Nurse, Puljujarvi, Yamamoto, Bouchard, Broberg, as "contributing" players or full on superstars.

How many more pieces needed to be added to that core via 1st round picks? Another 3 or 4 impact players?

Frankly Calgary drafts way better than a lot of these teams when you consider where they find a lot of their home run picks ... Giordano, Gaudreau, Mangipane, Brodie, all from nothing picks.

This is your quote...

Pittsburgh is a franchise that disproves the whole "you MUST DRAFT WELL or NO SUCCESS" bull shit too ... they've traded their 1st rounder 8 times in the Crosby era.

I want you to see that what you wrote is in no way accurate. Their championship teams were built on assets they acquired through the draft.

They did not move picks until their team was competitive.

 

[Soundwave]

This is your quote...

I want you to see that what you wrote is in no way accurate. Their championship teams were built on assets they acquired through the draft.

They did not move picks until their team was competitive.

Tanking for Crosby and Malkin and MAF is not a "draft strategy". It's being shit on purpose and then picking top 3 in the draft. That doesn't require any drafting skill anyone can pick Malkin or Crosby. Same reason the Oilers don't really deserve any credit for taking McDavid or Draisaitl or Hall.

Their overall drafting history aside from the tank picks is nothing special even if you want to start from 2000.

Florida, a top team this year, also has shit for drafting outside of making the obvious top 3 picks.

Chicago's draft history aside from that 3-4 year spurt where they mainly got Kane and Toews with high picks is also largely mediocre outside of the top 2-3 for the last 20+ years. Teuvo Teravanien? Mark McNeill? Dylen Olsen? Anton Babchuck? Cam Barker? Adam Boqvist? Mikhail Yakubov? A lot of freaking misses here.

The difference is not really that the Oilers haven't been able to amass a super talent core of 4-5 players from their draft tankings comparable to any of these teams, it's that they don't do a damn thing else (trades, signings, whatever) that are smart at all to compliment their group.

When exactly are the Oilers planning to be "competetive" by the way? McDavid's 9th year? 10th? We gonna get into double digits here? Don't act like that isn't sad as f***.

 

[belair]

Tanking for Crosby and Malkin and MAF is not a "draft strategy". It's being shit on purpose and then picking top 3 in the draft. That doesn't require any drafting skill anyone can pick Malkin or Crosby.

Their overall drafting history aside from the tank picks is nothing special even if you want to start from 2000.

Florida, a top team this year, also has shit for drafting outside of making the obvious top 3 picks.

Chicago's draft history aside from that 3-4 year spurt where they mainly got Kane and Toews with high picks is also largely mediocre outside of the top 2-3 for the last 20+ years. Teuvo Teravanien? Mark McNeill? Dylen Olsen? Anton Babchuck? Cam Barker? Adam Boqvist? Mikhail Yakubov? A lot of freaking misses here.

The difference is not really that the Oilers haven't been able to amass a super talent core of 4-5 players from their draft tankings comparable to any of these teams, it's that they don't do a damn thing else (trades, signings, whatever) that are smart at all to compliment that group.

You're still not looking!

Look at their draft history dating back to the year 2000 and look at their Championship rosters. Look at how many of their guys trace back to the Pittsburgh drafts.

If they traded picks frivolously year in, year out, some of those trades don't occur. Some of those depth guys aren't there. It has a long-term impact.

I'm not talking about Calgary, or Tampa, or Chicago or even Edmonton. I'm talking about your initial comment that was bolded and repeated which was regarding the Penguins. I want you to know how inaccurate it is.

 

[Soundwave]

You're still not looking!

Look at their draft history dating back to the year 2000 and look at their Championship rosters. Look at how many of their guys trace back to the Pittsburgh drafts.

If they traded picks frivolous year in, year out, some of those trades don't occur. Some of those depth guys aren't there. It has a long-term impact.

I'm not talking about Calgary, or Tampa or even Edmonton. I'm talking about your initial comment that was bolded and repeated. I want you to know how inaccurate it is.

Pittsburgh and Chicago's success is mainly built on obvious top 3 picks during a full on tank period which is nothing special or notable (neither is the Oilers) and then having one draft really tilt their way (for the Hawks getting Keith round 2, for the Pens getting Letang in round 3 '05).

But really beyond that, the drafting for either of these teams beyond that is nothing special. Pittsburgh has had like one really good draft (2013) in their last 14-15 years, the rest is fairly mediocre. Yet they are still a powerhouse team.

Calgary has better drafting the last 15 years than Chicago or Pittsburgh do.

The Oilers need what exactly? 5 more 1st rounders before "they're ready?". Leon is gonna be what? 31 by then? If that's the "strategy" the Oilers don't need to be 'congratulated' for it, they should be f***ing embarrassed and ashamed of themselves.

 

[belair]

Pittsburgh and Chicago's success is mainly built on obvious top 3 picks during a full on tank period which is nothing special or notable (neither is the Oilers) and then having one draft really tilt their way (for the Hawks getting Keith round 2, for the Pens getting Letang in round 3 '05).

But really beyond that, the drafting for either of these teams beyond that is nothing special. Pittsburgh has had like one really good draft (2013) in their last 14-15 years, the rest is fairly mediocre. Yet they are still a powerhouse team.

Calgary has better drafting the last 15 years than Chicago or Pittsburgh do.

The Oilers need what exactly? 5 more 1st rounders before "they're ready?". Leon is gonna be what? 32 by then?

Jesus Christ, dude. You just keep going.

Instead of instaposting, actually look at the number of players they added via the draft. It's not just the four you think it is. If you actually looked, you see how much of those rosters came from draft capital.

Staal for starters. He was parlayed into Dumoulin and Sutter who gets flipped for Bonino.

Goligoski moves for Niskanen and Neal who gets flipped for Hornqvist and Spaling, who moves with Kapanen in the Kessel deal.

Whitney for Kunitz

Christensen, Esposito and Armstrong all move in the Hossa deal. They also get Dupuis.

All of their Championship teams were built through the draft. You're wrong.

 

[Soundwave]

Jesus Christ, dude. You just keep going.

Instead of instaposting, actually look at the number of players they added via the draft. It's not just the four you think it is. If you actually looked, you see how much of those rosters came from draft capital.

Staal for starters. He was parlayed into Dumoulin and Sutter who gets flipped for Bonino.

Goligoski moves for Niskanen and Neal who gets flipped for Hornqvist and Spaling, who moves with Kapanen in the Kessel deal.

Whitney for Kunitz

Christensen, Esposito and Armstrong all move in the Hossa deal. They also get Dupuis.

All of their Championship teams were built through the draft. You're wrong.

No trades require actual smart management. You don't willy nilly just turn players into other good players, as Edmonton is a strong case study of with several GMs in a row that can't win a trade to save their lives.

So trading is a seperate issue. Drafting alone they have mediocre drafting for 15 years now. Same with Chicago. All you do by bringing that up is highlighting how important it is to have a GM that can win trades like Pittsburgh does.

Florida, also fairly mediocre at drafting outside of the top 3.

NY Rangers ... pretty shit draft history the last decade+ I would say. 3rd best team in the league.

Vegas, we obviously know they give zero f***s about the draft.

Colorado has drafted well, but most of their really good drafted players are still top 10 picks, which should not be an option for the Oilers. Also the Oilers management is too stupid to "squeeze" anyone to get a return like they did that turned into the Makar pick.

Every team fanatasizes that they're gonna be the next Tampa at the draft ... it's not gonna happen for basically all of them. That type of thing is once a decade maybe once every 15 years, a franchise gets a very lucky 3-4 year run at the draft usually in later rounds. The Oilers did it in the early 80s and probably used up all their luck on that front for the next 100 years. For people who think this will happen here, you might as well buy a lottery ticket while you're at it.

 

[belair]

No trades require actual smart management. You don't willy nilly just turn players into other good players, as Edmonton is a strong case study of with several GMs in a row that can't win a trade to save their lives.

So trading is a seperate issue. Drafting alone they have mediocre drafting for 15 years now. Same with Chicago. All you do by bringing that up is highlighting how important it is to have a GM that can win trades like Pittsburgh does.

Florida, also fairly mediocre at drafting outside of the top 3.

NY Rangers ... pretty shit draft history the last decade+ I would say. 3rd best team in the league.

Vegas, we obviously know they give zero f***s about the draft.

Colorado has drafted well, but most of their really good players are still top 10 picks, which should not be an option for the Oilers. Also the Oilers management is too stupid to "squeeze" anyone to get a return like they did that turned into the Makar pick.

Every team fanatasizes that they're gonna be the next Tampa at the draft ... it's not gonna happen. That type of thing is once a decade maybe once every 15 years, a franchise gets a very lucky 3-4 year run at the draft usually in later rounds. The Oilers did it in the early 80s and probably used up all their luck on that front for the next 100 years.

I just want you to know I'm not reading any of these posts. You should fact check before you go off on these tangents. Because that post was started off with something that was completely incorrect.
And over the past two pages you've been desperately trying to change the subject.

If I cared, I'd take the time to disprove a bunch of other things you've stated in the previous posts, but you didn't even bother to look how you were wrong the first time. You just continue to move the goalposts.

 

[Soundwave]

I just want you to know I'm not reading any of these posts. You should fact check before you go off on these tangents. Because that post was started off with something that was completely incorrect.
And over the past two pages you've been desperately trying to change the subject.

If I cared, I'd take the time to disprove a bunch of other things you've stated in the previous posts, but you didn't even bother to look how you were wrong the first time. You just continue to move the goalposts.

List what I'm saying is wrong. Please do tell which of the last 15 drafts from Pittsburgh (aside from 2013, which I've acknowledged) or Chicago are "amazing drafts"?

Even Tampa, they mainly fluked out in 2011 and 2014 especially with the Kucherov pick because teams were wary of selecting Russian players. They don't actually "draft well" every year, they just had a spurt of a few years of fortunate draft classes. They have a share of draft stinkers too like Drouin over Seth Jones, Slater Koekkoek with a 10th overall pick, Brett Connolly with a 6th overall pick, Cal Foote with a 14th overall, their more recent drafts all look like nothing impressive either.

These teams that are "great at drafting" really are more generally just getting hot for 2-4 year draft runs, and that happens once in a decade to like one lucky team. The Oilers are not going to draft Kucherov or Lidstrom with their next 1st round pick or 2nd round pick or their next 20 or 30 1st and 2nd round picks quite probably unless they tank for a 1/2/3 pick.

 

[Oilhawks]

 

[belair]

List what I'm saying is wrong. Please do tell which of the last 15 drafts from Pittsburgh (aside from 2013, which I've acknowledged) or Chicago are "amazing drafts"?

Even Tampa, they mainly fluked out in 2011 and 2014 especially with the Kucherov pick because teams were wary of selecting Russian players. They don't actually "draft well" every year, they just had a spurt of a few years of fortunate draft classes. They have a share of draft stinkers too like Drouin over Seth Jones, Slater Koekkoek with a 10th overall pick, Brett Connolly with a 6th overall pick, Cal Foote with a 14th overall, their more recent drafts all look like nothing impressive either.

These teams that are "great at drafting" really are more generally just getting hot for 2-4 year draft runs, and that happens once in a decade to like one lucky team. The Oilers are not going to draft Kucherov or Lidstrom with their next 1st round pick or 2nd round pick or their next 20 or 30 1st and 2nd round picks quite probably unless they tank for a 1/2/3 pick.

List? Go look at the f***ing drafts, dude! Their entire rosters were built through drafts dating back to 2000. You couldn't have been more wrong. But please keep moving those goalposts.

Not just hockey. Teams that fail to draft and develop consistently generally aren't competitive. This is basic stuff.

 

[Soundwave]

List? Go look at the f***ing drafts, dude! Their entire rosters were built through drafts dating back to 2000. You couldn't have been more wrong. But please keep moving those goalposts.

Not just hockey. Teams that fail to draft and develop consistently generally aren't competitive. This is basic stuff.

Tell me which draft from 2006-2020 from Pittsburgh I should be amazed by, aside from 2013, which I give them credit for.

Again do the same for Chicago.

Both teams have drafted like shit for a long time now, they're credited as "good drafting teams" for things they did like 18 years ago? Especially when most of those picks were tanking picks (Crosby/Malkin/Staal/MAF) + (Kane/Toews).

The only real difference between those teams and the Oilers frankly is the Oilers tanked just like them and got elite forwards just like them, but they didn't get the Keith/Letang equivalent in the 2nd/3rd round in the same time frame as their star forwards were picked.

That's really the main difference, also the Oilers also don't draft goalies for shit either.

The Oilers have gotten actually about the equivalent "talent" that teams like Chicago, and Pittsburgh, and even Tampa have out of their drafts (though they deserve less credit because the Oilers just tanked a bunch of years longer than any of them).

The main difference is Nurse or Klefebom are not a Norris caliber D, but that is also some luck on the part of those teams, if it's so easy to get a Hedman (who the Oilers would have taken over any of RNH, Yakupov, Draisaitl) or Keith or Letang, why have Pittsburgh, Chicago, and Tampa only found that tier of dman like once in 20 years.

 

[belair]

Tell me which draft from 2006-2020 from Pittsburgh I should be amazed by, aside from 2013, which I give them credit for.

Again do the same for Chicago.

Both teams have drafted like shit for a long time now, they're credited as "good drafting teams" for things they did like 18 years ago? Especially when most of those picks were tanking picks (Crosby/Malkin/Staal/MAF) + (Kane/Toews).

The only real difference between those teams and the Oilers frankly is the Oilers tanked just like them and got elite forwards just like them, but they didn't get the Keith/Letang equivalent in the 2nd/3rd round in the same time frame as their star forwards were picked.

That's really the main difference, also the Oilers also don't draft goalies for shit either.

The Oilers have gotten actually about the equivalent "talent" that teams like Chicago, and Pittsburgh, and even Tampa have out of their drafts (though they deserve less credit because the Oilers just tanked a bunch of years longer than any of them).

The main difference is Nurse or Klefebom are not a Norris caliber D, but that is also some luck on the part of those teams, if it's so easy to get a Hedman (who the Oilers would have taken over any of RNH, Yakupov, Draisaitl) or Keith or Letang, why have Pittsburgh, Chicago, and Tampa only found that tier of dman like once in 20 years.

No. If you don't bother to do the legwork, it just goes to show how little work you're willing to do to back up the countless things you post on these forums.

Pittsburgh's Cup winning rosters were built primarily through the draft. If you looked, you'd see you were wrong. If you looked you'd probably see you were wrong about Chicago, wrong about Tampa, wrong about Washington, about St Louis...

You get my drift.

 

[Soundwave]

No. If you don't bother to do the legwork, it just goes to show how little work you're willing to do to back up the countless things you post on these forums.

Pittsburgh's Cup winning rosters were built primarily through the draft. If you looked, you'd see you were wrong. If you looked you'd probably see you were wrong about Chicago, wrong about Tampa, wrong about Washington, about St Louis...

You get my drift.

Why do you act like this is hard to look up ... it's easy.

Pittsburgh Penguins Draft History at hockeydb.com

2002 - Whitney, meh
2003 - MAF, tank draft
2004 - Malkin + Goligoski, tank draft
2005 - Crosby + Letang, tank draft obvious home run
2006 - so-so, Staal over Toews is a miss IMO
2007 - shit
2008 - shit
2009 - fairly shit
2010 - kinda shit, got Rust
2011 - shit
2012 - Pouliot a big bust, but Matt Murray (good)
2013 - One actual good draft class, wow
2014 - meh
2015 - meh
2016 - shit
2017 - shit
2018 - shit
2019 - looks like more shit

The main difference between the Oilers and Penguins is not really that they drafted better than the Oilers. They got Letang in the 3rd round of the 05 draft, he's better than Nurse or Klefbom.

That's your main difference from the two teams sum of good players drafted the last 20 years.

The Oilers got about the same amount of good players through their drafts as Pittsburgh, Chicago, etc., they just have not been able to draft a Norris caliber D, but there's a lot of luck involved with that, you can draft for 20+ years and not get that player. If you don't have this luxury you have to be a extra dumb f*** organization to go cheap on goaltending on top of this ... ladies and gentlemen, your current Edmonton Oilers.

 

[Kaptah2]

List? Go look at the f***ing drafts, dude! Their entire rosters were built through drafts dating back to 2000. You couldn't have been more wrong. But please keep moving those goalposts.

Not just hockey. Teams that fail to draft and develop consistently generally aren't competitive. This is basic stuff.

No point arguing with a guy who is adamant that teams overall play has no effect to goalie SV%. Just ignore his rants.

 

[Soundwave]

No point arguing with a guy who is adamant that teams overall play has no effect to goalie SV%. Just ignore his rants.

Yeah the goalie totally has no affect on a team either. Like the Oilers were totally the same team last year with Smith in net versus Koskinen. Totally.

Conklin or Roloson? Who could even tell the difference.

Obviously spending jack shit on goaltending is going so great for the Oilers. Every other contender is looking at the Oilers and going "man, we overpaid to get our goaltending, we could be ... uh ... Edmonton ... uh ... instead".

 

[belair]

Why do you act like this is hard to look up ... it's easy.

Pittsburgh Penguins Draft History at hockeydb.com

2005 - Crosby + Letang, obvious home run
2006 - so-so, Staal over Toews is a miss IMO
2007 - shit
2008 - shit
2009 - fairly shit
2010 - kinda shit, got Rust
2011 - shit
2012 - Pouliot a big bust, but Matt Murray (good)
2013 - One actual good draft class, wow
2014 - meh
2015 - meh
2016 - shit
2017 - shit
2018 - shit
2019 - looks like more shit

The main difference between the Oilers and Penguins is not really that they drafted better than the Oilers. They got Letang in the 3rd round of the 05 draft, he's better than Nurse or Klefbom.

That's your main difference from the two teams sum of good players drafted the last 20 years.

The Oilers got about the same amount of good players through their drafts as Pittsburgh, Chicago, etc., they just have not been able to draft a Norris caliber D, but there's a lot of luck involved with that, you can draft for 20+ years and not get that player.

Look harder.

Why would it matter if they passed on Toews? Staal paid dividends for them.

I literally mentioned in a previous post how they got guys like Dumoulin, Bonino, Hornqvist, Kunitz... They were acquired with prospects from the draft. If you actually do a little digging, you'll see how much of those rosters come from the fruits of their draft and development.

This is what I'm talking about when I talk about 'trade capital'. These picks are assets and they have a very long shelf life. When you trade them for established players, it shortens the life of those assets. That's why rentals are stupid.

Pittsburgh didn't really do rentals until they won a Cup. Even the Hossa deal left them with a decade of Dupuis, who outproduced any of the players they gave up in the deal.

 

[Soundwave]

Look harder.

Why would it matter if they passed on Toews? Staal paid dividends for them.

I literally mentioned in a previous post how they got guys like Dumoulin, Bonino, Hornqvist, Kunitz... They were acquired with prospects from the draft. If you actually do a little digging, you'll see how much of those rosters come from the fruits of their draft and development.

This is what I'm talking about when I talk about 'trade capital'. These picks are assets and they have a very long shelf life. When you trade them for established players, it shortens the life of those assets. That's why rentals are stupid.

Pittsburgh didn't really do rentals until the won a Cup. Even the Hossa deal left them with a decade of Dupuis, who outproduced any of the players they gave up in the deal.

If they take Toews they probably win 3 or 4 Cups early in Crosby's career, Crosby + Malkin + Toews would've been an unstoppable organizational foundation. They took Staal because of his last name.

TRADES are not drafting OK. If they were the Oilers should have a good player for every player they draft, clearly it doesn't work like that. You need to be able to TRADE properly, and the Oilers are a text book example of utterly failures at that.

That is a completely different skill.

In terms of actual DRAFTING, the Penguins haven't really drafted that much better than the Oilers at all, the main difference is they got Letang as a home run 3rd round pick, the Oilers have not gotten the equivalent D pick to that.

 

[belair]

No point arguing with a guy who is adamant that teams overall play has no effect to goalie SV%. Just ignore his rants.

It's important for him to know that people see that his tangents are long-running sentences based almost completely on opinion. No facts.

For him to go multiple pages without backing up his initial comment is cringeworthy.