Rumor: Trade Rumor Thread IV - "What's all the roar over RoR?"

[NYR Viper]

I don't consider Del Zotto a puck moving defenseman, either. He has offensive skills, no doubt. But he lacks the foot speed and ability to control the tempo of the game to be a consistent threat.

This exactly. And it's not a knock on him. He is easily a top-4 defenseman at 22. He could probably be more effective if he were in a bit more wide-open system but his lack of skating makes him a bit easier to defend as he can't make people miss and then slide a pass to someone who is open.

 

[SupersonicMonkey*]

I have seen that quote around this thread quite a bit, can somebody expand on it.
I disagree with the premise. But I can be convinced.

Intelligent player. Faceoffs. Can shut down top offensive players. Has budding offensive skills. Decent size. Good work ethic.

The package is comparable. As is the upside.

They may not be perfect comparisons.

 

[BBKers]

I hope so, too.

And with Richards' situation. 34 yrs old after the 13-14 season, with 6 years remaining at 6.6 per.

Buy him out.

At that point Miller will have had two years NHL experience. Lindberg will most likely be here.

O'Reilly
Stepan
Miller
Lindberg

Finally growing a young group of two way centers.

Nieves soon after.

And on defense, Skjei, McIlrath, Barrie added to McDonagh, Girardi, and Staal. Maybe Stralman sticks around?

Long-term, losing Del Zotto doesn't hurt us. This season maybe.

I like Del Zotto. But something has to give, given the financials long-term and depth in one area and lack of it in others.

It makes a lot of sense when you put the puzzle pieces together.

Richards will be bought out if he is a liability after 2013/2014. Pretty sure that is the only realistic solution if the problem persists. Bt there are a lot of games to be played until then.
We can always find a #3/4 C too - if necessary. UFA market always can supply this. Or trades.
We can bring in stop gaps to fill in the #4 D as well
Del Zotto is not a real puck mover either
Has good offensive upside, is inconsistent (young) but not a real great player. I think his defense has looked pretty good this year though, much better than before.

 

[The Gloaming]

I have seen that quote around this thread quite a bit, can somebody expand on it.
I disagree with the premise. But I can be convinced.

ROR led the league in takeaways last year with 101. Won almost 53% of face offs. He finished 14th in Selke voting. For a 21 year old, that is very impressive. I also don't believe that you can ride a rookie's coat tails when it comes to scoring. Landeskog played great last year, but he's not someone who can carry the offense on a line, yet. I'm starting to agree with SSM. ROR for MDZ makes a lot of sense for both clubs.

 

[Dorado*]

ROR - STEP - JT possibly Lindbergh up th middle going forward with a Wade Richards buy out
HAGS STEP NASH
CK ROR CALLY
PYATT JTM FASTH
HALEY LINDBERGH MASH

Going forward might not be too bad . This probably isn't out year anyway to be frank .

 

[haveandare]

Don't think about it in terms of this season. Think of it in the long-term.

Del Zotto will get paid his next contract. 5+ easily. For a guy who will always be behind McDonagh, Staal, and Girardi.

Tyson Barrie has just as much potential. Except he plays the right side, and is a better skater. Younger, and cheaper.

O'Reilly is comparable to Patrice Bergeron.

Colorado may not have a choice but to trade O'Reilly soon, and get value for him. Del Zotto and O'Reilly are fair value. But the Rangers would need a defenseman in return. That's where Barrie comes in. But to get him we have to up our package. Colorado would need a defensive center after losing O'Reilly. Boyle is young enough, and fits the role. We would have to add a bit more, 2nd tier prospect and pick. We have 3 3rds. Probably a 4th 3rd if we don't reach the Cup Finals, which is the condition of that pick from the Nash deal.

It's a deal that makes sense for both clubs.

It's all speculative that far out though. McD, Staal and Girardi might not all be here when DZs next contract comes up, and if DZ is going to make so much more money, he's probably going to be playing better than he is now.

The O'Reilly/Bergeron comparison is overblown I think. Bergeron has been tearing it up since 2005 and has put up impressive offensive performances year after year. ROR has yet to put up one top quality offensive season. We're talking about buying out Richards and replacing him with a guy who has under 40 goals over his entire career because he looked good last season scoring a career high 18 goals and 55 points. I don't see it. Bergeron has proven that he's a solid offensive player and ROR hasn't. I get that offense isn't everything, but if this team is going to trade a big piece like MDZ for a center, it should be a guy who can put up points. We have a two-way 50/60 point center already.

 

[Kwayry]

Intelligent player. Faceoffs. Can shut down top offensive players. Has budding offensive skills. Decent size. Good work ethic.

The package is comparable. As is the upside.

They may not be perfect comparisons.

Bergeron's first 2 years: 70 and 73 points
RoR's first 2 years: 26 and 26 points

That's quite a bit of a differential.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

It's all speculative that far out though. McD, Staal and Girardi might not all be here when DZs next contract comes up, and if DZ is going to make so much more money, he's probably going to be playing better than he is now.

The O'Reilly/Bergeron comparison is overblown I think. Bergeron has been tearing it up since 2005 and has put up impressive offensive performances year after year. ROR has yet to put up one top quality offensive season. We're talking about buying out Richards and replacing him with a guy who has under 40 goals over his entire career because he looked good last season scoring a career high 18 goals and 55 points. I don't see it. Bergeron has proven that he's a solid offensive player and ROR hasn't. I get that offense isn't everything, but if this team is going to trade a big piece like MDZ for a center, it should be a guy who can put up points. We have a two-way 50/60 point center already.

Who?

 

[RGY]

ROR - STEP - JT possibly Lindbergh up th middle going forward with a Wade Richards buy out
HAGS STEP NASH
CK ROR CALLY
PYATT JTM FASTH
HALEY LINDBERGH MASH

Going forward might not be too bad . This probably isn't out year anyway to be frank .

Talk about throwing in the towel. Team is still very much in it. They will get hot and they will prove a lot of you wrong.

 

[NYR Viper]

Bergeron's first 2 years: 70 and 73 points
RoR's first 2 years: 26 and 26 points

That's quite a bit of a differential.

Bergeron played with Thornton, no?

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Who?

Derek Stepan

 

[*Bob Richards*]

Bergeron played with Thornton, no?

Aren't they both Centers though?

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Derek Stepan

Stepan is as much of a 50 point center as ROR. He had it in one year. I guess if you project ROR to be a 60 point center, you can project Stepan to be whatever you want.

 

[NYR Viper]

Aren't they both Centers though?

Now they are, but didn't Bergeron play wing when he was younger? I could be wrong.

 

[Dorado*]

Talk about throwing in the towel. Team is still very much in it. They will get hot and they will prove a lot of you wrong.

You better hope A Rod Richards gets on some GH THEN because he's skating and decision making at beer league speed .

 

[Kwayry]

ROR led the league in takeaways last year with 101. Won almost 53% of face offs. He finished 14th in Selke voting. For a 21 year old, that is very impressive. I also don't believe that you can ride a rookie's coat tails when it comes to scoring. Landeskog played great last year, but he's not someone who can carry the offense on a line, yet. I'm starting to agree with SSM. ROR for MDZ makes a lot of sense for both clubs.

That is yet to be proven, Landy is injured and RoR is holding out.

 

[bernmeister]

Oh, man. I'm late to the party, but I gotta try one of these . . .

-Stepan to PHX for Yandle
-Girardi to FLA for Huburdeau
-Asham, Dancing Larry, and Mike Sullivan to TOR for van Riemsdyk and Kulemin
-van Riemsdyk, Eminger, a Bud Light, and three Garden urinal cakes to Edmonton for Hall, Eberle, 23 year old Wayne Gretzky, and current age Charlie Huddy

Hall-23 year old Wayne-Nash
Hagelin-Richards-Gaborik
Callahan-Huburdeau-Eberle
Kulemin-Halpern-Powe

McDonagh-Yandle
Staal-Stralman
Del Zotto-53 year old Charlie Huddy

Voila!

you forgot the conditional 7th, and to unload Richards!

 

[bernmeister]

I am thinking about nothing other than value for value. ROR > MDZ

That is my opinion from watching them both play and where the needs of this organization are both now and in the future. Even if Richards isn't bought out, they will need a center like ROR. Every team in the league would want a center like him.

I see the upside of ROR.
I'm not 100% sold flip of MDZ for him is best use MDZ as a trade chip, assuming for sake of argument it is agreed he should be moved, which IMO remains to be seen based on the return.

 

[The Gloaming]

That is yet to be proven, Landy is injured and RoR is holding out.

That was just my opinion. Those two played great together last year, but IDK if Landy can carry the offensive load yet.

 

[Trxjw]

Bergeron's first 2 years: 70 and 73 points
RoR's first 2 years: 26 and 26 points

That's quite a bit of a differential.

Bergeron's first two years were actually 39 and 73 points. Regardless, it's a faulty way of comparing players. For instance, this player didn't look like much his first few years in the NHL:

2003-04 28GP 2G 3A 5P
*lockout year*
2005-06 82GP 10G 13A 23P
2006-07 48GP 6G 10A 16P

However, I'd certainly take Ryan Kesler on my team. Wouldn't you?

Here's a more important stat line:

Bergeron
03-04 2:41 PP TOI/G
05-06 4:42 PP TOI/G

ROR
09-10 0:35 PP TOI/G
10-11 0:37 PP TOI/G

I'd imagine his numbers would have been better had he gotten similar numbers on the power play. Plus, Bergeron's "second" year in the NHL was post-lockout. He was 20 after spending the lost season in the AHL. Bergeron had 73 points at the age of 20, and ROR had 55 and still only got about half of the PP time Bergeron did thanks to the insane amount of penalties that were called in that season coming out of the lockout.

 

[haveandare]

Bergeron played with Thornton, no?

Bergeron scored 73 in 2005-06 and then 70 in 2006-07. Thornton was traded to SJ after 23 games in the 2005-06 season, so Bergeron played with Thornton for a quarter of one of the seasons that he put up those numbers.

I really don't think ROR to Bergeron is a valid comparison given Bergeron's point production. ROR might be able to be that player, but it's far from a guarantee. I think his being obviously available combined with NYRs disappointing start is leading to a serious overrating of the guy.

 

[The Gloaming]

The season after the lockout pretty much produced high offensive numbers for everyone. I think we should keep that in mind when talking about Bergeron.

 

[bernmeister]

Who can we pay to take Richards, and what assets will we have to give?

That is the first question.
Second, is that preferable to buyout or not.

Don't be so fast on using that buyout!
What if a guy like Nash wakes up and is not injured enough for LTIR, and productive enough to keep, but not enough of the old Nash for that kind of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

Instead of a one dimensional let's dump Richards on X, what package can we make which we can live with?

 

[haveandare]

The season after the lockout pretty much produced high offensive numbers for everyone. I think we should keep that in mind when talking about Bergeron.

Still, even if Bergeron scored, say, 55 points both of those 70+ point seasons, he'd still have years and years of putting up the points that ROR has exactly once.

 

[RGY]

You better hope A Rod Richards gets on some GH THEN because he's skating and decision making at beer league speed .

His skating hasn't been as bad as you are making it out to be. Not great but not awful.

Decision making on the other hand is awful.

Maybe Torts should stop putting Richards in spots to fail. I know he makes a lot of money and should be in all the go to situations in many people's minds, but he certainly should not be taking important faceoffs anymore. That would help Richards win half the battle. Less responsibility. Shortened training camp for a guy who was not playing during the lockout because he was heavily involved in the cba discussions. It has a lot to do with his slow start.