Proposal: Josh Norris to Van

I was the one who posted that original proposal in the Sens trade thread, unless the OP just had lateral thinking.

It's from the same fake insiders who brought you Lafreneire+++ for Tkachuk.

I try not to will bad Sens trades into existence too much, but I would expect something like the OP if we move on from Norris. He has multiple shoulder surgeries, he is owed 9.5M in real dollars for the next few seasons, the Canadian dollar is very weak right now and the cap is only going up, and his name has been in trade rumours since Staios has taken over. Staios has also shown an interest in remaking the roster and bringing in veteran players.

What I would expect is that Vancouver basically gets Norris for pennies on the dollar for taking on the liability of the contract. They might value gambling on Norris if it is true that him and Quinn Hughes are good friends. Quinn Hughes is going to have to talk an extension with them in a year or so, and creating a room that he wants to lead could be a big part of him staying.

From the Ottawa POV, the point of the trade is to get out of the Norris contract and add depth. I'd expect them to flip the 2nd for someone they have been tied to (Tanev, Donato, etc).

Hoglander saw his most generous deployment as a rookie in the only full season he played under Travis Green.

Mike Yeo is on the Sens coaching staff, and must be familiar with Soucy from his time in Vancouver and Soucy's time in Minnesota's system when Yeo was head coach. If he is high on Soucy, maybe the familiarity would lead to Soucy waiving for Ottawa.

Ideally, instead of a 2nd, the Senators would get Boeser as a rental (with retention to make it cap in/cap out) - but I can't seem them doing that well from Norris. Boeser will get VAN a 1st+ at the deadline. Boeser, Hoglander, Soucy, for Norris, and two depth players would look a lot better than Hoglander, Soucy, and a 2nd that gets flipped for Tanev or Donato, but I just can't see Ottawa doing that well with Norris given his contract and injury history.
 
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I'm giving his shoulder this season to get right. His game has been very solid all year the only thing that's missing from 2022 is his one timer. That's what makes him an $8M 1B centre instead of a $5-6M middle six centre.

If he doesn't get that back next season, he'll be slightly overpaid with the cap going up. But still our best all-around forward this year. Even without the One T where it was at, he's still pacing for 30 goals and 50+ points. Solid 2C on most teams.

Don't think Staios is in a rush to trade one of their most reliable F's and one of Brady's best friends to save like $2-3M. At that point you move Amadio and/or Perron.

Again I think Boeser would make sense here if extended but I don't see it happening.
 
I'm giving his shoulder this season to get right. His game has been very solid all year the only thing that's missing from 2022 is his one timer. That's what makes him an $8M 1B centre instead of a $5-6M middle six centre.

If he doesn't get that back next season, he'll be slightly overpaid with the cap going up. But still our best all-around forward this year. Even without the One T where it was at, he's still pacing for 30 goals and 50+ points. Solid 2C on most teams.

Don't think Staios is in a rush to trade one of their most reliable F's and one of Brady's best friends to save like $2-3M. At that point you move Amadio and/or Perron.

Again I think Boeser would make sense here if extended but I don't see it happening.
Ok, but that's his big problem, he isn't reliable given his injury history, he's hurt as we speak for example. 3 shoulder surgeries b4 turning 25 says he shoulder will never be "right". Shoulders are a universal joint and are a compromised design to begin with from a mechanical standpoint, so once you start messing around with them, they'll never be the same
 
I'm giving his shoulder this season to get right. His game has been very solid all year the only thing that's missing from 2022 is his one timer. That's what makes him an $8M 1B centre instead of a $5-6M middle six centre.

If he doesn't get that back next season, he'll be slightly overpaid with the cap going up. But still our best all-around forward this year. Even without the One T where it was at, he's still pacing for 30 goals and 50+ points. Solid 2C on most teams.

Don't think Staios is in a rush to trade one of their most reliable F's and one of Brady's best friends to save like $2-3M. At that point you move Amadio and/or Perron.

Again I think Boeser would make sense here if extended but I don't see it happening.

I think if the Sens get Boeser, they would know it's only a rental situation to try and add a right handed goal scorer for a playoff push.

Boeser, Soucy, and Hoglander (or a different forward with term VAN wants to dump, like Joshua) would be more tolerable - but I doubt the Senators get that much for Norris. Boeser is worth a 1st+ at the deadline. Granted, this is apparently a weak draft, I just can't see us getting a 1st by proxy for Norris, even with taking back some contracts to subsidize his cap hit.

People will say that the Senators should wait until the summer to move Norris, but if Staios has determined that he needs to get out of that contract, and a team is willing to take it now, there is no guarantee that same team will still be open to it a few months from now. Things change quickly.
 
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I think if the Sens get Boeser, they would know it's only a rental situation to try and add a right handed goal scorer for a playoff push.

Boeser, Soucy, and Hoglander (or a different forward with term VAN wants to dump, like Joshua) would be more tolerable - but I doubt the Senators get that much for Norris. Boeser is worth a 1st+ at the deadline. Granted, this is apparently a weak draft, I just can't see us getting a 1st by proxy for Norris, even with taking back some contracts to subsidize his cap hit.

People will say that the Senators should wait until the summer to move Norris, but if Staios has determined that he needs to get out of that contract, and a team is willing to take it now, there is no guarantee that same team will still be open to it a few months from now. Things change quickly.
If they trade for Boeser at TDL, why wouldn't they try to sign him long term? I think they absolutely would, it would give them the inside track for negotiations and the extra year in length to tantalize him.
 
I guess a better way to put it is that if Boeser comes to Ottawa without talking to him first, we should probably assume he is going to be a rental.

Players come to Ottawa and like it here and sign, but it is just as common that they do not stay. Ottawa is on most No Trade Lists, etc. That assumes the Senators want to meet whatever his price is.
 
Prepare for disappointment if you believe norris is returning boeser alone, nevermind a significant plus.
I don't think Ottawa/Staois would be particularly interested in Boeser, especially not as a long-term piece, but he is a 2nd line scoring winger and Ottawa can't trade Norris in-season without getting back at least that.

If Ottawa wasn't so asset-poor, I think the "perfect" deal from our perspective would be Norris + for Garland + Hoglander/cap dump. Vancouver would definitely be taking a pretty major risk and the + would need to make sense even then... not sure a trade like that is the right fit for them.
 
I don't think Ottawa/Staois would be particularly interested in Boeser, especially not as a long-term piece, but he is a 2nd line scoring winger and Ottawa can't trade Norris in-season without getting back at least that.

If Ottawa wasn't so asset-poor, I think the "perfect" deal from our perspective would be Norris + for Garland + Hoglander/cap dump. Vancouver would definitely be taking a pretty major risk and the + would need to make sense even then... not sure a trade like that is the right fit for them.

Garland would be too good to be true. That tells you how pessimistic I am about a Norris return. Sens need a top 6 right handed winger.

Garland/Hoglander/Soucy would be cap in/cap out this season once you account for Ottawa sending down tow players to make room for 3 roster players coming back. Vancouver would dump three NHLers with questionable contracts to subsidize Norris. Ottawa would get out of almost the entirety of the Norris contract after next year, since Hoglander is the only player with term beyond 2026.
 
Garland would be too good to be true. That tells you how pessimistic I am about a Norris return. Sens need a top 6 right handed winger.

Garland/Hoglander/Soucy would be cap in/cap out this season once you account for Ottawa sending down tow players to make room for 3 roster players coming back. Vancouver would dump three NHLers with questionable contracts to subsidize Norris. Ottawa would get out of almost the entirety of the Norris contract after next year, since Hoglander is the only player with term beyond 2026.
Garland is too good to be true, why I said we aren’t actually in the position to make that type of trade. Would take an Ostapchuk type at least and I dont think we have that luxury
 
Garland is too good to be true, why I said we aren’t actually in the position to make that type of trade. Would take an Ostapchuk type at least and I dont think we have that luxury

What I was getting at is more that Garlin's value isn't all that high and I would still be shocked to get him as a piece in a package for Norris, because of how difficult I think it will be to trade Norris for a productive return.
 
I'm sure Ottawa would love some cap flexibility but they aren't just going to move Norris like a cap dump. Sure he's got some injury risk but so do a number of other players. Sure he's overpaid for what he does but so are a number of other players. He's one of their more important forwards so my guess is that Ottawa will hope he gets past his latest injury and produces for them rather than having to trade him for less than his importance would suggest.
 
I'm sure Ottawa would love some cap flexibility but they aren't just going to move Norris like a cap dump. Sure he's got some injury risk but so do a number of other players. Sure he's overpaid for what he does but so are a number of other players. He's one of their more important forwards so my guess is that Ottawa will hope he gets past his latest injury and produces for them rather than having to trade him for less than his importance would suggest.

Earlier in the season I probably would have said the same thing, but since January Travis Green started using Ridly Greig and Shane Pinto in more elevated roles.

The real money AAV of the Norris contract is close to 9 million because it had two cheap years that have already been played through. He has 5 years remaining after this season with an 8M cap hit (real dollars = 9.5/9.5/8.75/7.85/7). I think with his injury history, it's going to be hard to find a taker for that contract if Friedman's speculation about how many teams will not spend to the rising cap is accurate.

It's a tough call to make, but I think there is more risk in a team taking him than the Sens giving him up. If a GM takes Norris and his shoulder is injured again, with the amount of money he is owed, that's a fireable offense.
 
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Earlier in the season I probably would have said the same thing, but since January Travis Green started using Ridly Greig and Shane Pinto in more elevated roles.

The real money AAV of the Norris contract is close to 9 million because it had two cheap years that have already been played through. He has 5 years remaining after this season with an 8M cap hit (real dollars = 9.5/9.5/8.75/7.85/7). I think with his injury history, it's going to be hard to find a taker for that contract if Friedman's speculation about how many teams will not spend to the rising cap is accurate.

It's a tough call to make, but I think there is more risk in a team taking him than the Sens giving him up. If a GM takes Norris and his shoulder is injured again, with the amount of money he is owed, that's a fireable offense.
that's true. But my guess is that trading for a guy making that much is a group consensus process in today's NHL. The analytics department will weigh in. The team physicians will review medical records and diagnostic imaging and the owner will be consulted about the risk. All that aside, I agree that if he's moved it's for a lesser return commensurate with the risk. With the move from Arizona to Utah I don't think there are any low rent owners left in the league. I don't think Ottawa will care too much about the cash payout as opposed to the cap hit/injuires/production. We will see what happens but at least Ottawa is in a playoff spot and maybe even buying at the deadline rather than trying to sell guys off. He's an interesting case study. Maybe he's more attractive as a trade target in a couple of years when the cap has bumped up.
 
I'm sure you would.



Well, pretty easy to just keep him then.

His value can only go up with the cap as newer contracts for centres become more expensive. It's not like his injury issues are a secret.
I think that at the end of the day the sens are keeping Norris, now it only a question of how many more game she will play.

He is 25 years old and I'll set the line at 300 more games , who is taking the over?

Willander has to be coming back.
Please share what you are having as it sounds mindblowing to say the least and I like Pinto.
 
I think that at the end of the day the sens are keeping Norris, now it only a question of how many more game she will play.

He is 25 years old and I'll set the line at 300 more games , who is taking the over?


Please share what you are having as it sounds mindblowing to say the least and I like Pinto.
I'm having Surströmming, want some?

I think that at the end of the day the sens are keeping Norris, now it only a question of how many more game she will play.

He is 25 years old and I'll set the line at 300 more games , who is taking the over?


Please share what you are having as it sounds mindblowing to say the least and I like Pinto.
Damn I didn't realize Josh Norris transitioned, congrats to her!
 
I'm having Surströmming, want some?


Damn I didn't realize Josh Norris transitioned, congrats to her!
Well we did have the Sedins sisters here in Vancouver back in the day right?:naughty:

Although sadly that phrase was coined by a real douchebag broadcaster who had a very large frame but acted like a .......
 
Even with healthy concerns, this is terrible for Ottawa.
The trouble with trading Norris now is the Sens would have to take back contracts to balance the cap. Likely any Norris trade (Van or elsewhere) would happen in the summer. Especially since he’s injured again.
 
The trouble with trading Norris now is the Sens would have to take back contracts to balance the cap. Likely any Norris trade (Van or elsewhere) would happen in the summer. Especially since he’s injured again.

That vancouvers current advantage in trade talks. We don’t need to dump salary to take on a salary like Norris. I believe we will have 12+ mil at the deadline.

Norris currently doesn’t hold the value of Boeser who believe it or not is a 1W and has been putting up numbers of a mid 1W for a few years.

My guess is Norris probably is at 2nd and a B prospect. I get if you would rather hold on to him, it’s risk reward. I don’t know what your guys plan is, and as buyers I would guess you probably want to hold on to him.

I think a deal would more realistically look like the Canucks flip Soucy to a team for a 3rd, and then trade that 3rd, and a second with Hoglander. You use Hoglander this season as the step down replacement for Norris, and are paid the 2nd and 3rd for it.

Again I get why you may not want to do this.

Personally I would at this point rather look at McCaan, or Sillinger and yes pay more for either of them as a Canucks fan. Reduce the injury risk but pay for it.
 
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