Speculation: Trade Rumor/Speculation Thread XXII: St Louis vs St Louis

[Ex Officer Friendly]

And that's the only way that this works, if Marty has basically demanded a trade to the Rangers and nobody else.

Which is what the article basically says the actual quote is like two or three above mine

"While none of the principals were confirming or denying anything in those days and weeks after the initial snub, talk in the NHL community was rife that St. Louis wanted out. There was even talk – again, nothing with an absolute confirmation -- that the only place St. Louis would waive his No Move Clause for was the New York Rangers. His off-season home is just outside NYC, in Connecticut."

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

And that's the only way that this works, if Marty has basically demanded a trade to the Rangers and nobody else.

But the point is... it does work...

 

[NoQuitInNewMexico]

I think some of you are really missing the picture here.

Lundqvuist can go, what, 5-6 more years of elite level of playing... maybe?

Butterfly goalies tend to encounter more problems when they get older. Henrik has been having slower and slower starts. Inconsistency will likely become an issue as he gets older.

But we want a "future" plan?

The future plan was established 5-6 years ago. Dolan came out a few years ago saying that "Sather said they were close".

They're not selling off young assets in a last ditch attempt to win it all this year. They seem to be trying to win now (i.e the next 2-3 years) before they begin attempting their last ditch efforts with Hank.

That's the plan. Like it or not. Not the most ideal course of action but exciting that they seem to be committing to something that seems relatively soon.

This is an important post that sums up what I've been thinking about "windows" much better than anything I've been able to say.

We're not a real graybeard team even with St. Louis. We have key core players with a hell of a lot of hockey left in them, so we have a little bit of flexibility. We all know the prospect depth is more of a worry, but good NHL depth means the kids who do come up here should be put in positions conducive to success. This is a lot of why contract management matters and why I'll be so pissed if we don't rip up the Richards contract.

We can go "old" or we can go "young" this deadline but if what's available on the "old" side is much better than what's available on the "young" side (I don't think bluechip prospects are in the same conversations as our rentals, but I never have and maybe that's just me) it's worth looking at.

 

[Ail]

He makes a good point that if this is old news then it would be prudent for either MSL or SY to come out and publicly squash these rumors, hell even MSL's agent would put this to rest pretty fast.

So far it's been real quiet from everyone involved. They'll be back in the US as of today.

 

[Ail]

Which is what the article basically says the actual quote is like two or three above mine

"While none of the principals were confirming or denying anything in those days and weeks after the initial snub, talk in the NHL community was rife that St. Louis wanted out. There was even talk – again, nothing with an absolute confirmation -- that the only place St. Louis would waive his No Move Clause for was the New York Rangers. His off-season home is just outside NYC, in Connecticut."

It's been the "x-factor" from the beginning. It was the only way this trade would ever in any world make sense from Tampa's end.

 

[SupersonicMonkey*]

As opposed to the excuses for why not to win now?

No. As opposed to doing things correctly and building a team, rather than slapping band aids and scotch tape on every issue.

This has nothing to do with Henke's window. That's not how successful organizations do things. They build teams. When the team is ready to contend, they add accordingly.

Its dilusional to believe 38 year old Martin St. Louis magically makes this a Stanley Cup contending team, as if the teams that really are Stanley Cup contenders won't be looking to make their own teams stronger.

What's your plan, trade Callahan AND picks AND prospects (what it would cost) for St. Louis and then keep Richards? Because you know, screw the next 10 years, you want a blind hail mary at the Cup this year.

Those "future plans" you lament are exactly what successful organizations do.

And besides anything else, trading Callahan for young pieces does not mean "tank" or "rebuild". It simply means longevity.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

As opposed to the excuses for why not to win now?

As opposed to any sort of long-term plan that stretched beyond whats right in front of their face.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

As opposed to any sort of long-term plan that stretched beyond whats right in front of their face.

That plan seems to have been established 5-6 years ago.

Maybe it wasn't implemented and seen through adequately, but the plan was there.

It's the latter stage of it.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

BOB McKenzie wretched cuz Boom Boom Boy snubbed him of a scoop it seems to me

LOL. Yea, right.

Boomer may have gotten a scoop that the Rangers and Lightning were talking, but it sure seems like he he jumped the gun quite a bit on some of the details; particularly like it was an imminent 1 for 1 swap.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

It's been the "x-factor" from the beginning. It was the only way this trade would ever in any world make sense from Tampa's end.

This. Not really surprising. It's the only way this had any legs at all.

Now the question is if Yzerman will settle and get the best he can for a playoff run or let this be a huge elephant in the room for the rest of the season plus. Not an enviable position, given Tampa's performance this year and the play of Ben Bishop. Makes sense that all parties wanted to keep this under the rug. But with the deadline approaching the NYR used leaks to push the issue.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

This. Not really surprising. It's the only way this had any legs at all.

Now the question is if Yzerman will settle and get the best he can for a playoff run or let this be a huge elephant in the room for the rest of the season plus. Not an enviable position, given Tampa's performance this year and the play of Ben Bishop. Makes sense that all parties wanted to keep this under the rug. But with the deadline approaching the NYR used leaks to push the issue.

This is actually a good point I haven't really even thought through. I can't imagine Yzerman is happy with this.

That being said, I don't think it helps his position either.

If MSL wants out, stands by it, and only wants NYR... and Yzerman is playing around, Rangers just took away the last piece of leverage he had.

 

[Blueshirt Special]

If Boomer is right on this and MSL is playing against The Black Hawks Thursday night, my head is going to explode.

 

[SupersonicMonkey*]

Even if this trade made sense from a Rangers standpoint (it absolutely does not), it makes no sense from a Tampa Bay Lightning standpoint. They are not trading St. Louis for an expiring contract, a player that has an inflated sense or self worth as a player.

 

[Vidic15*]

Even if this trade made sense from a Rangers standpoint (it absolutely does not), it makes no sense from a Tampa Bay Lightning standpoint. They are not trading St. Louis for an expiring contract, a player that has an inflated sense or self worth as a player.

Who said "they" have a choice? He'll only go to NYR, or they keep an unhappy player.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

Even if this trade made sense from a Rangers standpoint (it absolutely does not), it makes no sense from a Tampa Bay Lightning standpoint. They are not trading St. Louis for an expiring contract, a player that has an inflated sense or self worth as a player.

You're the expert on the matter?

 

[TheTakedown]

No. As opposed to doing things correctly and building a team, rather than slapping band aids and scotch tape on every issue.

This has nothing to do with Henke's window. That's not how successful organizations do things. They build teams. When the team is ready to contend, they add accordingly.

Its dilusional to believe 38 year old Martin St. Louis magically makes this a Stanley Cup contending team, as if the teams that really are Stanley Cup contenders won't be looking to make their own teams stronger.

What's your plan, trade Callahan AND picks AND prospects (what it would cost) for St. Louis and then keep Richards? Because you know, screw the next 10 years, you want a blind hail mary at the Cup this year.

Those "future plans" you lament are exactly what successful organizations do.

And besides anything else, trading Callahan for young pieces does not mean "tank" or "rebuild". It simply means longevity.

That statement is made in a vaccuum.... reality is we only have 5 more years of THe King playing like the King...

I don't think we're looking to win NOW, but I believe the window of opportunity is going to re-open in the next 2 years or so, and stay open for 2 years. That's why it pays to lock up on this now, if the goal is a cup...

However I agree that we should be building a perennial contender at the same time. There is time for that if drafting goes right, and we steal a couple of prospects with some AHL trades... A lot of pieces have to fall in place to be a perrennial contender.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

As opposed to any sort of long-term plan that stretched beyond whats right in front of their face.

Seems the "anything can happen" playoff mentality has become status quo for trade proposals.

 

[egelband]

st louis has been through a helluva lot with tampa. a bit surprising he'd basically throw the team under the bus for, essentially, pride.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

Even if this trade made sense from a Rangers standpoint (it absolutely does not), it makes no sense from a Tampa Bay Lightning standpoint. They are not trading St. Louis for an expiring contract, a player that has an inflated sense or self worth as a player.

I agree it doesn't. It is not good for them. To play devils advocate, only spin Yzerman has got is "Marty forced this, relationship was broken" and we didn't want to cave on the season - get the best possible RW back for him this season to try to make a run.

Or he can keep MSL. But then if they faulter he will get the "why did you allow this black cloud to linger during a playoff run" questions. I have no doubt Marty is a professional and will shut up and play. But it's a sticky situation for Yzerman. Especially since a contingent of the fanbase will blame him anyway for the Team Canada stuff.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

That plan seems to have been established 5-6 years ago.

Maybe it wasn't implemented and seen through adequately, but the plan was there.

It's the latter stage of it.

Let Lundqvist carry the team on his back, continue to produce OK (but not stellar) prospects that are becoming a bit redundant at this point? Try to import the latest band-aid/flavor of the month to cover up holes? Fail miserably at finding a suitable top-flight center and play-making defenseman? Was that the plan?

Sather freely flies by the seat of his pants each season; that seems to be the plan.

 

[Ex Officer Friendly]

It's been the "x-factor" from the beginning. It was the only way this trade would ever in any world make sense from Tampa's end.

Agreed similar to the Iginla deal last year he said Boston and Pittsburgh and let's face it Calgary didn't get anything close to what would have been offered by a lot of teams but because it was down to two teams Calgary was forced to take a lesser offer

 

[Dr. Ogrodnick]

The other factor is that his children live in CT. It is possible that its more a desire to be able to spend more time with them then any Olympic snub. That's the kind of thing that Boomer might hear via Richards. Just theorizing here of course.

 

[Jackpot]

And besides anything else, trading Callahan for young pieces does not mean "tank" or "rebuild". It simply means longevity.

If it were as easy as high draft picks and acquiring "young pieces" the Islanders, Oilers, Phoenix etc.... Would be substantially better as organizational wholes... You can't trade for, or acquire the biggest factor IMO, that being luck.... These young guy's that get drafted (outside of the select few) every year are so unpredictable as to what their futures hold.. Even in Edmonton's case, sure fire NHL talent, but..
1. By the time they develope, no way they'll be able to keep them all. Either due to the financial aspects, or because they'll just want to go..
2. You're not going to draw any high profile players in a complete rebuild mode, which doesn't help..

So my point being, just because you have a bunch of young high profile kids, picks, assets etc.. It doesn't equate to winning. You have to find a mix, winning at the NHL level isn't all about having the best organizational depth, it's about getting lucky to some extent with what you have... The day's of dynasties in the NHL are over.. If you have a shot, take it.. That same shot might not be there next season with the exact same roster..

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Seems the "anything can happen" playoff mentality has become status quo for trade proposals.

What can we do? Between a mandate from the top that just making the playoffs is fine, and a fanbase that eats up every rumor and new mercenary, it all plays right into Sather's hands.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

Please tell me about St. Louis's so-called leverage. What's he going to do? Sit out and essentially end his career?

He may have been pissed and asked for them to explore a trade.

Perhaps out of courtesy to his many years of service they did so.

But, as McKenzie points out, why on earth would Yzerman take anything less than what he deems to be full market value? And why would the Rangers pony up extra assets in the form of picks and prospects for a 38 year old? Makes no sense at all.