Speculation: Trade / Roster Speculation Thread XXXIII: Clever Title Pending

[Fitzy]

If we were to trade for Ovechkin, I'm fairly certain it could only be done if Nash was going the other way.

Washington just fired their coach, OV is there to stay.

 

[haohmaru]

With our defensive depth and goaltending, we have more than enough defense on the ice to make up for his lack of defense. What's our problem in the playoffs? Goals, AO can fix that.

Not to mention we have Allen and Skjei in the system on D.

A.) Washington doesn't make that trade - especially a new GM. He'd get fired the next day.
B.) It doesn't work, cap-wise, for the NYR
C.) NYR are weak at center prospect-wise
D.) By all indications, AO isn't exactly a coach's dream to coach

It doesn't make sense for the Capitals, it doesn't work for us $-wise. Pipe dream.

 

[haohmaru]

I know +/- is a skewed stat but Ovechkin was a -35 while potting 79 points in 78 games.

That's impressively bad. 3rd worst in the league. Yes 39 of his points were on the PP and he only had 40 ES points. Still that's hard to do. Takes a special kind of commitment.

And this is coming from a guy who considered Ovie my favorite player for a good 4-5 years. He is so fun to watch. But he is not the answer to bringing a Cup to MSG, IMO.

Ps - Everyone's 2nd favorite trade target, Yak, posted a stellar -33 on the year. But he had the benefit (in this analysis) of only recording 18 ES points on the year. At least with him you can argue there is room to improve.

IIRC, I heard a stat on NHL (Sirius) that AO had ONE even strength point THE ENTIRE MONTH OF MARCH. Girardi probably had more.

 

[Tawnos]

A.) Washington doesn't make that trade - especially a new GM. He'd get fired the next day.
B.) It doesn't work, cap-wise, for the NYR
C.) NYR are weak at center prospect-wise
D.) By all indications, AO isn't exactly a coach's dream to coach

It doesn't make sense for the Capitals, it doesn't work for us $-wise. Pipe dream.

On D... so far he's had Bruce Boudreau, who tried to build a system around him and had the most success, followed by two coaches trying to change the player that Ovechkin is. Hunter and Oates both made huge, huge mistakes in the way they tried to coach both the team and the player. I put the onus on them more than on him.

 

[haohmaru]

I wouldn't want him here for that reason alone - I don't want to build a system around a single player who can't adapt. It's not going to work.

 

[Tawnos]

I wouldn't want him here for that reason alone - I don't want to build a system around a single player who can't adapt. It's not going to work.

It wasn't about adaptation.

Hunter tried to turn him into a defensive superstar.
Oates changed the position on the ice that Ovechkin played.

That's not asking a player to adapt, that's asking him to be something he isn't. It's a lot like what Tortorella wanted out of Zuccarello, but on an even more egregious scale. If you have the best goal scorer in the world, why would you try to drastically change him? If you have a guy who is likely a top 5 or 10 LWer in NHL history, why would you try to make him a RWer?

Ovechkin really did try adapting. He did what his coaches wanted him to and his team lost games and his numbers suffered horribly. What would you do if your boss refused to use you in the way that would give both him and you the most success?

 

[zuckera1]

A.) Washington doesn't make that trade - especially a new GM. He'd get fired the next day.
B.) It doesn't work, cap-wise, for the NYR
C.) NYR are weak at center prospect-wise
D.) By all indications, AO isn't exactly a coach's dream to coach

It doesn't make sense for the Capitals, it doesn't work for us $-wise. Pipe dream.

A) Why not? They just missed the playoffs and have been trending down the last few years. If they want to get better they need to make significant changes.
B) With the Richards buyout and the cap rising, it may be tight but it COULD work if we wanted it to.
C) So? Let's address that and draft a Center with this year's 1st.
D) Doesn't matter.

 

[TheTakedown]

I'd keep Dorsett AND re-sign Carcillo.

I'd look at re-signing Diaz as well.

Depth.

If there is an opportunity to bring in a big, tough LWer, I'd move Hagelin + Moore.

I agree. Moulson is a UFA, and probably worth the $5M he'd get paid. If we are able to pull that off, then we can attempt to trade for a 2nd line center by moving Moore and Hagelin... I think it's worth it, but it may cost too much given you are going directly to UFA for the skill versus trading those assets. Though I would figure it's going to be easier (at least in this upcoming offseason) to trade for a Centerman since there will be UFA options in the wing position

 

[TheTakedown]

A) Why not? They just missed the playoffs and have been trending down the last few years. If they want to get better they need to make significant changes.
B) With the Richards buyout and the cap rising, it may be tight but it COULD work if we wanted it to.
C) So? Let's address that and draft a Center with this year's 1st.
D) Doesn't matter.

We don't have this years 1st...

 

[zuckera1]

We don't have this years 1st...

As of now, we do. Unless we make the ECF (still possible), we'll have it. We don't have the 2015 1st (St. Louis trade)

 

[Tawnos]

We don't have this years 1st...

We haven't made the ECF just yet.

 

[TheTakedown]

As of now, we do. Unless we make the ECF (still possible), we'll have it. We don't have the 2015 1st (St. Louis trade)

We haven't made the ECF just yet.

My bad. All this "Sather hates 1st round picks" is getting to me :p

 

[Ola]

The scariest thing about players like Ovechkin is not that they can't play on the defensive side of the puck, its that they simply refuse to.

I read a quote from him that said "my job is to score goals and I scored 50" - yes, great, but his non-existent play on the other side of the puck is a reason why his team sucked, but he doesnt seem to care. Thats scary.

Yeah, but this is definitely not behind his minus stat.

AO is a massive minus player 5 on 5 because the run and gun, and especially "gun", style. Washington gives up a lot of possession when he is on the ice, and then they have to work hard to win it back. There is seldom any spot picking when he is on the ice, they enter the zone, AO back away from the Ds, and then he unloads. Roughly.

 

[AHB*]

Washington's D is trash. It's not AO's job to play D. Carlson and Alzner are both good players but then you have Erskine, Orlov, Urbom, Poti,and Hillen you're just not going to be a great team.

Orlov can be good eventaully but he's not there yet.

Then you have Green who is not good defensively and is not the same offensively.

It's just a poorly built team. AO is an easy scapegoat.

We'll never get him, but he would fit nicely on this team, especially if we could replace Nash with him.

 

[charliemurphy]

I agree. Moulson is a UFA, and probably worth the $5M he'd get paid. If we are able to pull that off, then we can attempt to trade for a 2nd line center by moving Moore and Hagelin... I think it's worth it, but it may cost too much given you are going directly to UFA for the skill versus trading those assets. Though I would figure it's going to be easier (at least in this upcoming offseason) to trade for a Centerman since there will be UFA options in the wing position

Agreed. I mentioned Moulson earlier in that he would get Sather's attention either before or after buying out Richards' contract.
I think a top 2 line LWs of Krieder and Moulson would change the dynamic of the entire roster if they're paired with Nash and St. Louis on the other side.
Another top 2 line C behind or in front of Stepan is what they have to trade for after buying out Richards... leaving players like Hagelin and J. Moore as likely to go.
Whether or not which is easier to go after first? Within 24 hours of eachother? I guess we'll find out.

 

[Fitzy]

I like Moulson, but I don't see how we fit him under the cap.

If we moved Hagelin for Burmistrov, maybe it would work.

Kreider-Stepan-Nash
Moulson-Burmistrov-St. Louis
Pouliot-Brassard-Zuccarello

But like I've said before, I think MSL was the big get, I'd be surprised if we have the capacity for a big name UFA signing even if we buy out Richards, which is still an "if"

 

[eco's bones]

It wasn't about adaptation.

Hunter tried to turn him into a defensive superstar.
Oates changed the position on the ice that Ovechkin played.

That's not asking a player to adapt, that's asking him to be something he isn't. It's a lot like what Tortorella wanted out of Zuccarello, but on an even more egregious scale. If you have the best goal scorer in the world, why would you try to drastically change him? If you have a guy who is likely a top 5 or 10 LWer in NHL history, why would you try to make him a RWer?

Ovechkin really did try adapting. He did what his coaches wanted him to and his team lost games and his numbers suffered horribly. What would you do if your boss refused to use you in the way that would give both him and you the most success?

I don't know about Hunter trying to turn him into a defensive superstar. Hunter wanted him to be at least competitive back checking and Ovechkin's never really been interested in that part of the game. Zucc plays both ends of the ice and has become a very credible defensive player. He also creates for his line mates--maybe is even too generous at times--rather than them creating for him. There's no denying that Ovechkin is an extraordinarily gifted player but there are just too many issues around him IMO--in the Capitals scheme of things it's him, him, him and everything and everyone else is secondary. Bringing him in would change the entire dynamic of the team and I don't think it would be for the good.

 

[Vinny DeAngelo]

I like Moulson, but I don't see how we fit him under the cap.

If we moved Hagelin for Burmistrov, maybe it would work.

Kreider-Stepan-Nash
Moulson-Burmistrov-St. Louis
Pouliot-Brassard-Zuccarello

But like I've said before, I think MSL was the big get, I'd be surprised if we have the capacity for a big name UFA signing even if we buy out Richards, which is still an "if"

How much do we have to give up for burmistrov tho? Can't afford to trade anymore high picks (1-3 rounds)

 

[Mikos87]

Yeah, but this is definitely not behind his minus stat.

AO is a massive minus player 5 on 5 because the run and gun, and especially "gun", style. Washington gives up a lot of possession when he is on the ice, and then they have to work hard to win it back. There is seldom any spot picking when he is on the ice, they enter the zone, AO back away from the Ds, and then he unloads. Roughly.

He used to be a dominant presence on the forecheck, but the system was different back then. Boudreau used zone starts, kept OV away from defensive responsibilities, and they were willing to trade chances. They scored more than they gave up, but it never worked in the playoffs because teams like Tort's Rangers and goalies like Henrik Lundqvist just shut them down.

If you have a moment, listen to GMGM's breakdown of the last couple of years in his goodbye conference. It's an excellent look into Washington's demise.

http://www.monumentalnetwork.com/videos/george-mcphee-4-28-14

 

[bernmeister]

Good point. You sure he isn't related to you in some capacity?

Yes, Ms. De Vee toe, I'm sure...
Lucy, you just so ridiculous!

 

[bernmeister]

I like Moulson, but I don't see how we fit him under the cap.

If we moved Hagelin for Burmistrov, maybe it would work.

Kreider-Stepan-Nash
Moulson-Burmistrov-St. Louis
Pouliot-Brassard-Zuccarello

But like I've said before, I think MSL was the big get, I'd be surprised if we have the capacity for a big name UFA signing even if we buy out Richards, which is still an "if"

Don't think we have to go as high as Hags for Burmi, esp since it is considered his 'rights' at this point.
Think J. Moore + small add for Burmi rights + Postma would do it.

 

[bernmeister]

For the record, want no part of Ovie.
Also gather some NTC remains on Nash.

That said, if there was a 3 way where we help caps move Ovie and they get Nash in the process, that could work... maybe.

Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to figure out workable 3 ways...
Ovie/+ to X
Nash/+ to Caps
whatever works to Rangers

 

[Thirty One]

If Ovechkin was available, I go all in. It would be very hard to make work, obviously.

 

[Mikos87]

Don't think we have to go as high as Hags for Burmi, esp since it is considered his 'rights' at this point.
Think J. Moore + small add for Burmi rights + Postma would do it.

Conditional 3rd round pick for Burmi at best. Better than nothing for WPG. No need to give up an NHL defenseman for a kid who might not play.

In nearly 200 NHL games, he's scored 23 goals, and has a PPG of .3.

Not exactly an offensive catalyst, but he does dangle like crazy in EA Sports.

 

[Fitzy]

I haven't heard any legitimate source say Ovechkin was on the move, Washington has fired two coaches for the guy.

If NYR was to take a run at him, it would start with Nash, simply because nothing else makes financial sense.