Proposal: Trade Proposal Thread: Part 77

[BigDaddyLurch]

Then trade a combination of 18, 26 and Anderson for OTT 1st pick (or better NJ 1st pick).

Then send all the new kids down one more year, suck hard , get a top 5 pick next year, win the lottery.

Wishful thinking sure.

But even with the add of an OTT pick this year and a top 5 pick next year, I’d be a good base.

...Fletcher might give us #5 for Anderson and Dallas' #18...not that I want to lose Anderson, but I could see it happening...

 

[le_sean]

You have to quantify what the return would be from the Stars for Petry with retention. A blanket statement don't show the full picture.

What do we really think we are going to get for Byron, Drouin, and Dadonov with retention at this deadline and does that futures return trump what futures we would get for Petry with retention? Likely not

Who else in the next two years? Gallagher, Eddy, Savard, Hoffman, Anderson? I think we are reaching here if we think we are trading them all with retention in 2 more seasons after this year.

3 retention spots is very manageable. If the Stars call me and offer me a legit grade A or their 18th pick, I'm not going to hang up the phone cause we want retention spots open for others down the road.

I’d look elsewhere to be honest. You have Byron, Dadonov and Drouin just this year that not one team will want without retention.

 

[Bell Centre Hotdog]

You don’t develop a young Top 4 defender just to trade him for a chance at another top 4 defenceman.

I'm not saying to trade him just for #5. Even though I feel Jiricek could be top pair better than top 4. I mean if it was able to make the deal bigger while acquiring #5. I'd be interested as both side of defense would be set for years to come without someone on their wrong side and playong time if 3 guys on the left. I feel that Harris is going to be a gem for us.

Maybe get more help up front with an NHL ready player while possibly shedding salary if the contract is lesser than Andersons. There is a lot of options and positive outcomes from it.

I'd like to see maybe Anderson + Romanov + pick for top 5 + help up front.

If we can shed cap even better.

 

[DAChampion]

No thanks.
JVR has a 7 M contract, so he likely has no value even at 50% retained.
Hoffman at 50% has a 2.75 M cap hit, which should give him value. We can trade him next offseason and get back an asset.

JVR has less term than Hoffman.

I’d look elsewhere to be honest. You have Byron, Dadonov and Drouin just this year that not one team will want without retention.

If the Habs can't acquire a 4th rounder for Drouin and Byron then they can just let them walk for nothing. It doesn't matter.

 

[BaseballCoach]

JVR has less term than Hoffman.


If the Habs can't acquire a 4th rounder for Drouin and Byron then they can just let them walk for nothing. It doesn't matter.

True, but taking on $7M for this year instead of $4.5M is going in the wrong direciton.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Retaining on Petry wouldn't be a big deal for a year, but 3 years is hard to predict what we could flip at 2024-2025 deadlines, could be like Toffoli's and Chiarots where we get 1st rounders as well. I trust Hughes to make the good call on this one, something like the 18th overall is very inticing, no doubt. But at the same time its 3 deadlines with 1 less spot to flip assets for picks. I see Edmundson as a chiarot return, Allen, Dvorak and Armia could get us some sweet return in the best scenarios. I think both sides are debatable on the value of retaining for 3 years.. depends who's still there at 18th in this case..

I would not get worried about retention spots and decline the 18th pick in a Petry trade cause think we will get another Chiarot trade with Eddy.

You're not wrong, it's a big deal but if the return is right. You manage it cause you got the 18th pick FFS.

Do you think we will ever be at 3 retention spots year/year in the next 3 years? I say we get to 3 at a deadline and then back to 1 or 2 cause the pending UFA expires.

True, but taking on $7M for this year instead of $4.5M is going in the wrong direciton.

Yes, I see it the same. Cap space for 23/24 won't be an issue but this coming season is. We are not taking on salary this year.

Not a bad idea but I agree with you... it's the wrong direction

 

[Sterling Archer]

Agreed. I can't believe some posters think that it's a bad idea to retain on Petry cause they want to keep the 3 spots open for deadline moves that might return a 2nd or 3rd rounder (at best).

If the Stars asks us to retain $1M on Petry and offer the 18th pick or a grade A prospect. We are not saying no cause we want to retain on Bryon, Drouin, or Dadonov at the deadline.

Some posters are going to say... yeah but we won't get the 18th pick. Think again... A top 4RD who has mobility and can be on the 2nd PP unit is worth a lot. My return package might be low and Hughes gets more. I started low and even added one of our 3rd's.



You're not retaining cause he sucks. You retain to get a better return. You don't handcuff ourselves in maximizing Petry's return cause you need to consider that it's the playoff teams that need Petry the most and most teams don't have the cap space. This is about taking advantage of the Stars situation and offering them cap flexibility options while we get their 18th pick.

GMs rarely conflate deals. They talk about it but almost always settle on the smaller, simpler deal. Petry is a cap dump, so why would he retain? Just doesn’t make sense unless it’s a much bigger deal which again, is not likely. I’ll play the odds and go with what Hughes said in that he will not retain.

 

[BaseballCoach]

You have to quantify what the return would be from the Stars for Petry with retention. A blanket statement don't show the full picture.

What do we really think we are going to get for Byron, Drouin, and Dadonov with retention at this deadline and does that futures return trump what futures we would get for Petry with retention? Likely not

Who else in the next two years? Gallagher, Eddy, Savard, Hoffman, Anderson? I think we are reaching here if we think we are trading them all with retention in 2 more seasons after this year.

3 retention spots is very manageable. If the Stars call me and offer me a legit grade A or their 18th pick, I'm not going to hang up the phone cause we want retention spots open for others down the road.

Cap dump back is better for us than retention, in general.

 

[Habs Halifax]

If you're going to use up a retention spot for 3 years why not go to the full 50% (3.125M) to maximize the value then....
You're actually getting less for the retention slot by minimally retaining than we would by using 50% retention at the deadline (I know a 50% retained Drouin will get less than a 1M retained Petry but this ignores the fact that the base assets have different values prior to retention)

Cause there is a sweet spot. I do think retention down to $5M gets you the Stars 18th pick. So lets say we retain 50%, Do you think you get the 18th pick and one of their grade A prospects? I doubt the Stars go that deep.

Cap dump back is better for us than retention, in general.

We saved about $3M on the Weber/Dadonov trade. That's with the narrative that we wanted to avoid Weber on LTIR before the season starts.

I don't see us taking that $3M saving and using it on a Hoffman/JVR flip even if Hoffman has more term left. Byron, Drouin, and Dadonov expire this year. Hoffman won't complicate our cap and you can try to move him in a different type of trade later if you have too.

Habs need cap space to sign Romanov and Pitlick and other RFA's. The Weber trade helped and then the Petry trade will be enough.

 

[BaseballCoach]

I would not get worried about retention spots and decline the 18th pick in a Petry trade cause think we will get another Chiarot trade with Eddy.

You're not wrong, it's a big deal but if the return is right. You manage it cause you got the 18th pick FFS.

Petry has to fetch more than a pick that has a 50% chance of being a top 4D or top 9F. And that's without retention.

 

[The Great Weal]

You don’t develop a young Top 4 defender just to trade him for a chance at another top 4 defenceman.

Except that our young top 4 dman likely tops out as a #4 dman since he's got little to no offense to his game whereas Jiricek/Nemec have legitimate #1 d upside and can do more in the offensive zone with one hand than Romanov with eight.

I like Romanov but he's getting absurdly overrated here. So ya trading a #4 dman for a serious chance at a top pairing dman is a no brainer. Now if it was something like Romanov for Justin Barron (if we never made the trade) then ya I'd agree with you. It's very disingenuous to categorize Romanov/Jiricek/Nemec as top 4 dmen when the last two have significantly more upside.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Petry has to fetch more than a pick that has a 50% chance of being a top 4D or top 9F. And that's without retention.

I tend to agree but I started low due to HF board nit picking game.

This is why I asked this morning... Does Hughes get more, less, or the same value as this (see below)? Then
others avoided the question and focused on retention spots.

I do think Hughes might get better. How much better? Not sure but I do think playoff teams with cap issues and are looking for a top 4RD will ask for retention. Hughes has to consider it IMO.

* Petry with retention down to $5M
* Habs 3rd rounder (Ducks or Canes pick)
for
* Stars 18th pick

Another question, does Petry have less, same, or more value than Toffoli?

 

[Captain Mountain]

No thanks.
JVR has a 7 M contract, so he likely has no value even at 50% retained.
Hoffman at 50% has a 2.25 M cap hit, which should give him value. We can trade him next offseason and get back an asset.

JVR at 50% has value, moreso than Hoffman. Hoffman is a PP specialist who sucks at ES, almost no contenders need a guy like that. JVR is a 20 goal chance generator and net front presence with size. That has more value than Hoffman.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Except that our young top 4 dman likely tops out as a #4 dman since he's got little to no offense to his game whereas Jiricek/Nemec have legitimate #1 d upside and can do more in the offensive zone with one hand than Romanov with eight.

I like Romanov but he's getting absurdly overrated here. So ya trading a #4 dman for a serious chance at a top pairing dman is a no brainer. Now if it was something like Romanov for Justin Barron (if we never made the trade) then ya I'd agree with you. It's very disingenuous to categorize Romanov/Jiricek/Nemec as top 4 dmen when the last two have significantly more upside.

Those middle-impact players like Romanov and Anderson are not the guys to start moving when early in the rebuild.

There are lots of other ways to shed salary. Drouin, Dadonov, Byron and Allen makes 4 guys with almost $17M gone after this year, who could be replaced with $5M and you would hardly see the difference on the ice.

Armia is probably tradeable right now, for a limited return. Do it, and sign Tyler Pïtlick to replace him for $2M less.

 

[The Great Weal]

Those middle-impact players like Romanov and Anderson are not the guys to start moving when early in the rebuild.

There are lots of other ways to shed salary. Drouin, Dadonov, Byron and Allen makes 4 guys with almost $17M gone after this year, who could be replaced with $5M and you would hardly see the difference on the ice.

Armia is probably tradeable right now, for a limited return. Do it, and sign Tyler Pïtlick to replace him for $2M less.

I'm not even suggesting to trade away Romanov, but for Jiricek/Nemec? Absolutely.

 

[Habs Halifax]

GMs rarely conflate deals. They talk about it but almost always settle on the smaller, simpler deal. Petry is a cap dump, so why would he retain? Just doesn’t make sense unless it’s a much bigger deal which again, is not likely. I’ll play the odds and go with what Hughes said in that he will not retain.

You mean Petry is not a cap dump right?

Hughes has way more information than we do and I think he is starting high. A very good 1st or a Grade A with other piece and no retention. Then he goes from there and I put myself in the Stars shoes... I think they end up offering us a very good youth package but also ask us to retain. That might be their last card to play but they are holding off from doing it.

Right now, it's just a lot of chatter back and forth and there are no doubt more teams calling. The Stars need Petry but they need retention. A team like the Wings don't have to ask for retention. Let the bidding war begin and at some point the max top offers are revealed to Hughes. Hughes rather not retain... that's a no brainer. However, Stars might dangle the best futures and he changes his mind.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Does Petry have less, same, or more value than Toffoli?

I'd say slightly more, because of his position and his wheels.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I'd say slightly more, because of his position and his wàheels.

Yup. Lots of posters don't understand Petry's value cause he is "age 34". Totally ignoring his mobility and skating ability and looking at his points on a team that was drowning.

I think the Stars have a perfect spot for Petry with Lindell after they let Klingberg walk cause they simply can't afford him at $8M+

 

[Canadienna]

Some of my favourite players in recent years.

Subban, Galchenyuk, Kotkaniemi, Domi...

Currently it's Romanov. I'm worried.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I'm not even suggesting to trade away Romanov, but for Jiricek/Nemec? Absolutely.

Fair but I would take Cooley or Slaf instead if I trade Romanov +

 

[Revansky]

I'd say slightly more, because of his position and his wàheels.

Slightly less because of contract and age. I value him as a low first/high second round pick value so a bit less than toffoli who got a 1st + 5th + a B prospect).

 

[Habs Halifax]

Some of my favourite players in recent years.

Subban, Galchenyuk, Kotkaniemi, Domi...

Currently it's Romanov. I'm worried.

Low % that we are able to come to agreement on a Romanov+ trade for the 2nd pick. Don't be worried but if we are able to make a trade like that, we will get your new favorite player bud

Slightly less because of contract and age. I value him as a low first/high second round pick value so a bit less than toffoli who got a 1st + 5th + a B prospect).

Petry as pending UFA gets a Chiarot return at the minimum. You're devaluing him cause of his age of 34. He he showed mobility and skating decline, you might have a point.

A late 1st or high 2nd for a mobile top 4RD? I think you need to rethink it through. We would have gotten those offers easily at the last deadline and Hughes said no.

 

[McPhees Moustache]

Cause there is a sweet spot. I do think retention down to $5M gets you the Stars 18th pick. So lets say we retain 50%, Do you think you get the 18th pick and one of their grade A prospects? I doubt the Stars go that deep.



We saved about $3M on the Weber/Dadonov trade. That's with the narrative that we wanted to avoid Weber on LTIR before the season starts.

I don't see us taking that $3M saving and using it on a Hoffman/JVR flip even if Hoffman has more term left. Byron, Drouin, and Dadonov expire this year. Hoffman won't complicate our cap and you can try to move him in a different type of trade later if you have too.

Habs need cap space to sign Romanov and Pitlick and other RFA's. The Weber trade helped and then the Petry trade will be enough.

I don't think there's anything wrong with your value, but each retention spot has a value and I don't think you're maximizing it by tying it up for 3 years to only retain ~1M dollars on an asset that could still be traded for positive value without retention.
I get the allure of the 18thOA pick but I don't think you're fully valuing the retention spot for a team that's sure to trade several players over the next couple years.

 

[Revansky]

Low % that we are able to come to agreement on a Romanov+ trade for the 2nd pick. Don't be worried but if we are able to make a trade like that, we will get your new favorite player bud



Petry as pending UFA gets a Chiarot return at the minimum. You're devaluing him cause of his age of 34. He he showed mobility and skating decline, you might have a point.

A late 1st or high 2nd for a mobile top 4RD? I think you need to rethink it through. We would have gotten those offers easily at the last deadline and Hughes said no.

Petry isn't an UFA though. I'm not optimistic as you are on his value but would be glad if i'm wrong.

 

[The Great Weal]

Fair but I would take Cooley or Slaf instead if I trade Romanov +

I actually wouldn’t. We don’t have anyone in the system that has top pairing potential and you can’t become a Stanley Cup contender without having one.