Proposal: Trade Proposal Thread: Part 61

[Schooner Guy]

sounds like the nucks are still trying to win although I can't say I have followed them.

depending on how things go but if say we got 1st and the Yotes end up at 3rd, it would be interesting to see if Gorton would try and trade down as the yotes are loaded with 3 1st and 5 2nd round picks so far.

Any team that brings in Bruce Boudreau is trying to win now.

 

[Miller Time]

If Habs land 1OA I would dangle and see if Van bites on potentially trading Petersson

This years pick needs to net a potential high ceiling player and the the little I know of this draft cuvée…. It doesn’t have such a talent IMO

Can you imagine the backlash Pettersson would get for putting up Kotkaniemi level production at a bigger, long term cap hit lol

 

[danyhabsfan]

If Habs land 1OA I would dangle and see if Van bites on potentially trading Petersson

This years pick needs to net a potential high ceiling player and the the little I know of this draft cuvée…. It doesn’t have such a talent IMO

77M for 17 players next year

where do you take the cap space for Pettersson?

 

[calder candidate]

It's not the same person running the show, again, I think you or anyone who thinks Gorton is going to do a scorched-earth policy is naive. I think he's going to make the obvious moves of trading guys who won't be back next year, but I wouldn't expect him to make the big sweeping changes a lot of people want done.

Of course, I could be wrong but I just don't see it.


No, that's just YOUR understanding of what I wrote.

THIS year, it makes total sense to try to position yourself to draft as highest as possible...the season is lost already and IF we're in the same position this time next year, than it will make sense to do the same to potentially draft Bedard or Michkov.

But i'm not throwing away next season before i've even had an offseason to evaluate and potentially look at moves to make this team better. The GM has a responsibility to the players currently on this team, you can't just sacrifice a year of players careers just to TRY to draft the next best thing.

Yes, in an ideal world if everything works out perfectly (which we know it rarely does), going back to back years drafting Wright + Bedard or Michkov would increase the chances of improving this team significantly.

But so would other avenues.

What will improve next years so this train wreck of a team that been losing for multiple year in row will improve enough to say that we have a shot at the cup… No prospect ready to have a major impact, no big UFA willing to sign. Trade I don’t see us in position to fleece many teams… other team have already started their tank if we wait to long will never catch them…
It not like we need to try and sabotage the team to be bad, we are already very bad.
Layout you plan what are the other options.

 

[Habricot]

I do not think MB had it all wrong, a big mean D core is good, but in today's NHL it needs to be a big mean and FAST puck moving D core. Romanov and Ghule are perfect example of what migth fit in that D core. I would not mind if we tried to acquire Broberg from Edmonton our Barron from Colorado.

 

[Vachon23]

If Habs land 1OA I would dangle and see if Van bites on potentially trading Petersson

This years pick needs to net a potential high ceiling player and the the little I know of this draft cuvée…. It doesn’t have such a talent IMO

I would love EP but I really don't see Rutherford doing a rebuild and trade him

 

[HuGort]

I do not think MB had it all wrong, a big mean D core is good, but in today's NHL it needs to be a big mean and FAST puck moving D core. Romanov and Ghule are perfect example of what migth fit in that D core. I would not mind if we tried to acquire Broberg from Edmonton our Barron from Colorado.

For Price you mean? They won't part with them easily?

 

[417]

What will improve next years so this train wreck of a team that been losing for multiple year in row will improve enough to say that we have a shot at the cup… No prospect ready to have a major impact, no big UFA willing to sign. Trade I don’t see us in position to fleece many teams… other team have already started their tank if we wait to long will never catch them…

I don't know, that's for management to figure out but I can guarantee you what won't though.

Deciding they're not going to compete for next year, before the current season has even expired. The only thing that does is make losing acceptable and once you do that, as we can already clearly see...it's very difficult to turn off.

It not like we need to try and sabotage the team to be bad, we are already very bad.

85% of the team you're currently seeing wouldn't be on the NHL roster under normal circumstances...obviously.

Layout you plan what are the other options.

OMG, are you going to stop asking me this?

It's not for me to lay out a plan, i'm not going to waste all of our times proposing things I have absolutely no control over or even know the likelihood of it succeeding. There's already enough fantasy GM'ing around here, i'll let you parse through that. All i've spoken about is this concept of making losing an organizational standard for the next 18 months for the chance, I repeat, a "chance"...not a guaranteed, but a "chance" at drafting a player who MIGHT turn our fortunes around, this is not something I want for this organization....that doesn't mean I don't want them to accumulate draft picks and build a sustainable winner. I just don't think you build a sustainable winner by sustainably losing.

I am confident in Gorton though and I'm pretty confident this "scorched-earth/eat-lard-for-Bedard" plan you all think is the magic key to the Cup, is not going to be his starting point.

 

[sampollock]

I do not think MB had it all wrong, a big mean D core is good, but in today's NHL it needs to be a big mean and FAST puck moving D core. Romanov and Ghule are perfect example of what migth fit in that D core. I would not mind if we tried to acquire Broberg from Edmonton our Barron from Colorado.

agreed

MB had a good defense, can't deny that

 

[417]

Partially. In the broader sense, I think Edmonton's push to be better faster was what set them back. The Lightning were pretty bad for a long stretch of time, but they didn't rush to be competitive and did a good job of building internally and being careful with what contracts they handed out. Edmonton was aggressive and tried to speed things up (especially through Free Agency) and it bit them in the ass many times. Like people will call Edmonton a rebuilding team, but from 2009 to 2019, the only had multiple 1st or 2nds in 2010, 2011 and 2018. They even had years where they moved 2nds. That's not on Chiarelli, MacTavish did it as well. Holland has shown more restraint, but he's had some moves that are too hasty as well.

Not really....as soon as Jeff Vinik took over in the Lightning in 2010 and relieved them from ownership/payroll issues that plagued that team before then, the Lightning only missed the playoffs for 2 consecutive seasons (2011-12 & 2012-13) and those were the years where they transitioned from Guy Boucher to John Cooper.

They've only missed the playoffs once since then and even that season, they finished with 94pts.

Obviously, the current regime benefited from them drafting Stamkos & Hedman in back to back years when they were horrible from top down...but they weren't pretty bad for a long stretch of time.

Compare that to the Edmonton Oilers, they drafted Connor McDavid in 2015...prior to that, they had missed the playoffs for 8 consecutive seasons and despite drafting a generational player, they've missed the playoffs 3 out of the 6 years since.

There's a reason why...or rather, multiple reasons why.

It's hard to shake losing man...real hard....what free agency moves did the Oilers make that doomed them? I mean, it's not like the Oilers are a free agent destination.

I know you're not blaming it all on them signing Milan Lucic or Andrej Sekera...other than those 2, they really haven't been all that active in free agency. Surely you're not suggesting them signing those 2 players is a sign of them trying to speed up their rebuild.

Their rebuild didn't work because they had been so comically bad for almost a before they drafted McDavid, they didn't and arguably still don't know, how to build a championship roster.

 

[NotProkofievian]

Not really....as soon as Jeff Vinik took over in the Lightning in 2010 and relieved them from ownership/payroll issues that plagued that team before then, the Lightning only missed the playoffs for 2 consecutive seasons (2011-12 & 2012-13) and those were the years where they transitioned from Guy Boucher to John Cooper.

They've only missed the playoffs once since then and even that season, they finished with 94pts.

Obviously, the current regime benefited from them drafting Stamkos & Hedman in back to back years when they were horrible from top down...but they weren't pretty bad for a long stretch of time.

Compare that to the Edmonton Oilers, they drafted Connor McDavid in 2015...prior to that, they had missed the playoffs for 8 consecutive seasons and despite drafting a generational player, they've missed the playoffs 3 out of the 6 years since.

There's a reason why...or rather, multiple reasons why.

It's hard to shake losing man...real hard....what free agency moves did the Oilers make that doomed them? I mean, it's not like the Oilers are a free agent destination.

I know you're not blaming it all on them signing Milan Lucic or Andrej Sekera...other than those 2, they really haven't been all that active in free agency. Surely you're not suggesting them signing those 2 players is a sign of them trying to speed up their rebuild.

Their rebuild didn't work because they had been so comically bad for almost a before they drafted McDavid, they didn't and arguably still don't know, how to build a championship roster.

I agree with your point that it's hard to create a winning culture out of a losing one. But I don't think that's the only or main difference between Edmonton and Tampa Bay. Tampa Bay benefited from excellent scouting throughout the draft, they benefited from some shrewd moves by Yzerman, and they benefitted from being bad at the right time.

The previous management did real damage to edmonton through incompetence, not just willful suckiness. Before long, though, I think Edmonton will be moved from ''teams who prove tanking doesn't work'' to ''stanely cup champions who tanked.'' They're a goalie and some depth away from contention, and their prospect pool is loaded.

 

[417]

I agree with your point that it's hard to create a winning culture out of a losing one. But I don't think that's the only or main difference between Edmonton and Tampa Bay. Tampa Bay benefited from excellent scouting throughout the draft, they benefited from some shrewd moves by Yzerman, and they benefitted from being bad at the right time.

No of course not, that's me simplifying things in an effort to be brief and concise but obviously, there are a bunch of micro decisions that separate both organizations. But it's all symptomatic of a winning culture vs a losing one.

When I look at the Oilers, they look like a team that thought that drafting early would pay off eventually. Let's not forget, before they drafted McDavid, they drafted the following players inside the top 10

- Draisaitl
-Nurse
- Yakupov
- Nugent-Hopkins
- Hall
- Paajarvi

I mean, that's pretty decent performance in the 1st round, so why didn't things turn around until just recently?

It's not free agency, they haven't been that aggressive in free agency, partly because they can't. So I disagree that they tried to accelerate their rebuild. In fact, I think it's the opposite, they prolonged it.

I think part of the reason is they really thought just drafting early for all those years would eventually pay off. There was little thought put into how to bring these players along and build up the current team.

Losing became acceptable. It became a culture.

The previous management did real damage to edmonton through incompetence, not just willful suckiness. Before long, though, I think Edmonton will be moved from ''teams who prove tanking doesn't work'' to ''stanely cup champions who tanked.'' They're a goalie and some depth away from contention, and their prospect pool is loaded.

Maybe...but they're a looooonng ass way from a team that tanked. So it'd be a stretch IMO, to link both of those together.

 

[HabsCode]

Not really....as soon as Jeff Vinik took over in the Lightning in 2010 and relieved them from ownership/payroll issues that plagued that team before then, the Lightning only missed the playoffs for 2 consecutive seasons (2011-12 & 2012-13) and those were the years where they transitioned from Guy Boucher to John Cooper.

They've only missed the playoffs once since then and even that season, they finished with 94pts.

Obviously, the current regime benefited from them drafting Stamkos & Hedman in back to back years when they were horrible from top down...but they weren't pretty bad for a long stretch of time.

The poster you replied to is actually right in saying that Tampa Bay were pretty bad for a long strech of time.

As I replied here:

Trade Proposal Thread: Part 61

From year 2007-2008, the year they traded Richards and rented Prospal to Flyers, just before drafting Stamkos, to 2012-2013, they made the playoff once. And there second best finish in that span was a 21th position out of 30 team. That's one playoff qualification in 6 seasons and 5 others seasons where they were bottom of the league.

The fact remains the Lighting rebuild was a long process and they struggled for a while.

 

[417]

The poster you replied to is actually right in saying that Tampa Bay were pretty bad for a long strech of time.

As I replied here:

Trade Proposal Thread: Part 61

From year 2007-2008, the year they traded Richards and rented Prospal to Flyers, just before drafting Stamkos, to 2012-2013, they made the playoff once. And there second best finish in that span was a 21th position out of 30 team. That's one playoff qualification in 6 seasons and 5 others seasons where they were bottom of the league.

The fact remains the Lighting rebuild was a long process and they struggled for a while.

And as I said in that reply and the one to you...never mind before 2010...look at the Lightning since Jeffrey Vinik took over.

They had ownership/payroll issues during the years you mentioned.

Since Vinik took over, they've made the playoffs 8 out of 11 years, they missed 2 years consecutively very early on in Vinik's ownership of the team and one more time despite having a .575 winning %.

So no, the process wasn't long...they accelerated it because they made rebuilding about more than just sucking.

Remember, not only did Vinik buy the team in 2010...but Steve Yzerman, the man largely associated with making the Lightning who they are today, became GM the same year. The Lightning had missed the playoffs for 3 consecutive years when he took over, his first year as GM they made the ECF and he was nominated for GM of the year (also one of his first moves was to re-sign Martin St-Louis).

So anything prior to that is irrelevant to my point.

Either way, I don't want to get into an autopsy of how the Tampa Bay Lightning championship teams were built. But clearly, drafting Steven Stamkos & Victor Hedman was a part of a much, much larger plan that never involved wanting to suck for an arbitrary amount of time.

 

[HabsCode]

And as I said in that reply and the one to you...never mind before 2010...look at the Lightning since Jeffrey Vinik took over.

They had ownership/payroll issues during the years you mentioned.

Since Vinik took over, they've made the playoffs 8 out of 11 years, they missed 2 years consecutively very early on in Vinik's ownership of the team and one more time despite having a .575 winning %.

So no, the process wasn't long...they accelerated it because they made rebuilding about more than just sucking.

Remember, not only did Vinik buy the team in 2010...but Steve Yzerman, the man largely associated with making the Lightning who they are today, became GM the same year. The Lightning had missed the playoffs for 3 consecutive years when he took over, his first year as GM they made the ECF and he was nominated for GM of the year (also one of his first moves was to re-sign Martin St-Louis).

So anything prior to that is irrelevant to my point.

Either way, I don't want to get into an autopsy of how the Tampa Bay Lightning championship teams were built. But clearly, drafting Steven Stamkos & Victor Hedman was a part of a much, much larger plan that never involved wanting to suck for an arbitrary amount of time.

It not just about wanting to suck for an arbitrary of time, it's accepting your team suck for now and work with what is given to bad teams as a way to help them rebuild (high draft pick) instead of being impatient and just aiming for being a bubble team seasons after season with no change in sight.

You can choose to forget about a part of the process, doesn't change the fact Yzerman and Co. inherited two franchise young player because of those two bad years, which would be determinant in the turn this team as took in their rebuild.

They were already past the part of the core rebuild where teams are bottom of the league and build a huge part of their core throught high picks.

It was easier for Yzerman to accelerate the rebuilding process since he already had what was projected as a futur Norris winner and a young Stamkos who just winned the Rocket at the age of 20 years old. He had to go throught that process with the Wings and inherited a high pick for Seider and was bad enough to land the next year Raymond in 2020 at 4th overall. Red Wings finished 27th in 2020-2021 and they are barely now starting to play over .500 in 2021-2022 and are fighting for a playoff spot for now. Funny how even the Yzerman you sell as a GM who just won't accept a loosing culture might miss the playoff for a third times in a row since he is at the realm.

It might be because it isn't just about wanting to win, but about drafting the missing pieces and be patient in letting them develop before hoping you can turn a bottom of the league team into a contender. Once you have established a good core, you push more for it. But you need to establish that core first.

 

[salbutera]

I would love EP but I really don't see Rutherford doing a rebuild and trade him

I’m not suggesting a Van rebuild - it’s more of a cap space move. Horvat is UFA after next season, Boeser is RFA after this season needing a big deal, only deal Pettersson to gain financial flexibility and of course of the 1OA has value to a Rutherford as a low cost ELC option for next 3-seasons allowing using the financial flexibility to address other areas of need.

Not sure I do it if I was Rutherford, but would look into it as Gorton.

 

[417]

It not just about wanting to suck for an arbitrary of time, it's accepting your team suck for now and work with what is given to bad teams as a way to help them rebuild (high draft pick) instead of being impatient and just aiming for being a bubble team seasons after season with no change in sight.

Something that guys like Steve Yzerman don't accept, at least not for very long.

You can choose to forget about a part of the process, doesn't change the fact Yzerman and Co. inherited two franchise young player become of those two bad year, which would be determinant in the turn this team as took in their rebuild.

It's not about forgetting about that process, in fact I mentioned it by referring to Stamkos & Hedman, which were 2 picks acquired under a totally different regime...but I correctly highlighted how there was a clear shift in organizational standards after Vinik took over.

If you don't believe me, ask Bolts fans.

I mean, it's great that Vinik/Yzerman inherited (I hate this term btw) 2 franchise players...but as we've discussed, that in itself doesn't mean much as it relates to building a winner. They had both of those players and sucked. That's what got the previous GM fired. Remember the whole Melrose fiasco...it was a mess before Vinik took over.

They were already past the part of the core rebuild where teams are bottom of the league and build a huge part of their core throught high picks.

It was easier for Yzerman to accelerate the rebuilding process since he already had what was projected as a futur Norris winner and a young Stamkos who just winned the Rocket at the age of 20 years old. He had to go throught that process with the Wings and inherited a high pick for Seider and was bad enough to land the next year Raymond in 2020 at 4th overall. Red Wings finished 27th in 2020-2021 and they are barely now starting to play over .500 in 2021-2022 and are fighting for a playoff spot for now. Funny how even the Yzerman you sell as a GM who just won't accept a loosing culture might miss the playoff for a third times in a row since he is at the realm.

Exactly my point...if you cheered for the Wings, you'd be cheering for them to tank another 2 years so they could add Wright & Bedard.

Just over 2 years after taking over as GM of the Wings...Steve Yzerman has his very young and promising team in a playoff spot. I mean, that seems like a reasonable timeframe or progression. In fact, it's the EXACT timeframe I discussed at the very beginning of this debate, which was of course.

"it shouldn't take Gorton/NewGM more than 2 years to get this team back into a position where they're a playoff team or at least battling to be one".

Glad we cleared that up.

It might be because isn't just about wanting to win, but about drafting the missing pieces and be patient in letting them develop before hoping you can turn a bottom of the league team into a contender.

I love reading stuff like "it's all about drafting"...like duh.

Who doesn't know this or rather, who is arguing against this? lol.

You're not revealing anything repeating that over and over again...drafting is not the debate.

We're debating how long this "losing" has to last...I'm of the opinion that it doesn't need to last for 4-5 years...you think it does.

The Tampa Bay Lightning & Detroit Red Wings under Steve Yzerman, seem to support my stance...not yours.

P.S. - before you say it, yes, I'm completely aware of how having Stamkos & Hedman can help accelerate things. But that's selling the work Yzerman did short, if you think that's all it's about.

 

[sampollock]

man this board needs a trade to happen, we are struggling for topics

 

[HabsCode]

Something that guys like Steve Yzerman don't accept.


It's not about forgetting about that process, in fact I mentioned it by referring to Stamkos & Hedman, which were 2 picks acquired under a totally different regime...but I correctly highlighted how there was a clear shift in organizational standards after Vinik took over.

If you don't believe me, ask Bolts fans.

I mean, it's great that Vinik/Yzerman inherited (I hate this term btw) 2 franchise players...but as we've discussed, that in itself doesn't mean much as it relates to building a winner. They had both of those players and sucked. That's what got the previous GM fired. Remember the whole Melrose fiasco...it was a mess before Vinik took over.



Exactly my point...if you cheered for the Wings, you'd be cheering for them to tank another 2 years so they could add Wright & Bedard.

Just over 2 years after taking over as GM of the Wings...Steve Yzerman has his very young and promising team in a playoff spot.

Glad we cleared that up.

I love reading stuff like "it's all about drafting"...like duh.

Who doesn't know this or rather, who is arguing against this? lol.

You're not revealing anything repeating that over and over again...drafting is not the debate.

We're debating how long this "losing" has to last...I'm of the opinion that it doesn't need to last for 4-5 years...you think it does.

The Tampa Bay Lightning & Detroit Red Wings under Steve Yzerman, seem to support my stance...not yours.

Ask Red Wings fan and most of them agree their rebuild is still not done yet. They still think they need a 1st C, despite having Larkin.

You just entirely missed the point if you think I would cheer as a Red Wings fan for more bad seasons. They already have an elite young core in Seider, Raymond, Edvisson (really promising prospect) and Ned. They are past the stage of building their core. I don't think they need more since they are set for the next decade at a lot of key position.

The last time the Red Wings made the playoff was in 2015-2016. It took them 6 season to finally see bright at the end of the tunnel. It was a long process. And once again, Yzerman inherited 6th overall pick which turned into a Norris Caliber young defenseman due to a bad season before he got here. He is at year 3 of his plan, you don't seem to have the patience to accept what Yzerman and the Red wings are doing since you want to be competitive as soon as next season.

The Habs are at year 1 (are we could say 0 actually since the rebuild hasn't started yet). They have no young elite pieces ( unless young count Suzuki and Caufield has ones ).

 

[417]

Ask Red Wings fan and most of them agree their rebuild is still not done yet. They still think they need a 1st C, despite having Larkin.

Sigh...I never said their rebuild is done. It is not.

But it doesn't stay stagnant in perpetual losing...of course they're not done, but they're also not trying to losing for the next 4 years just to stack high draft picks. THat's not how winning organizations operate.

Of course, when you take over a team in shambles, you often times have to take a step back (which we've been doing the last 3 years really, it was just masked by an unexpected run to the Finals) but you don't intentionally stay in this cesspool of sucktude indefinitely.

You just entirely missed the point if you think I would cheer as a Red Wings fan for more bad seasons. They already have an elite young core in Seider, Raymond, Edvisson (really promising prospect) and Ned. They are past the stage of building their core. I don't think they need more since they are set for the next decade at a lot of key position.

If I misunderstood your takes - my mistake.

But i've been debating the same thing consistently here. That I don't think this team needs to be bad for the next 3-4 years.

The last time the Red Wings made the playoff was in 2015-2016. It took them 6 season to finally see bright at the end of the tunnel. It was a long process. And once again, Yzerman inherited a Norris Caliber young defenseman due to a bad season before he got here. He is at year 3 of his plan, you don't seem to have the patience to accept what Yzerman and the Red wings are doing since you want to be competitive as soon as next season.

Every new GM inherits something...man that term is just awful lol.

Who cares, the point is that Steve Yzerman took over a team in shambles...2 years later, they're on the upswing. This falls in line with my ORIGINAL point, that anything beyond 2 years of being terrible under this new regime is unacceptable, and really given this team has been terrible the last few years, it really doesn't even need to take that long.

IF the people in charge are at all competent.

The Habs are at year 1. They have no young elite pieces ( unless young count Suzuki and Caufield has ones).

Not really...i'd say they're at year 3.

 

[Habricot]

Ask Red Wings fan and most of them agree their rebuild is still not done yet. They still think they need a 1st C, despite having Larkin.

You just entirely missed the point if you think I would cheer as a Red Wings fan for more bad seasons. They already have an elite young core in Seider, Raymond, Edvisson (really promising prospect) and Ned. They are past the stage of building their core. I don't think they need more since they are set for the next decade at a lot of key position.

The last time the Red Wings made the playoff was in 2015-2016. It took them 6 season to finally see bright at the end of the tunnel. It was a long process. And once again, Yzerman inherited 6th overall pick which turned into a Norris Caliber young defenseman due to a bad season before he got here. He is at year 3 of his plan, you don't seem to have the patience to accept what Yzerman and the Red wings are doing since you want to be competitive as soon as next season.

The Habs are at year 1 (are we could say 0 actually since the rebuild hasn't started yet). They have no young elite pieces ( unless young count Suzuki and Caufield has ones ).

In youg you absolutly need to count on Suzuki, Caufield, Romanov, Phoeling, Ghule. What the wings did and what we did not is commit to develop there key guys outside of the NHL unless they can be positive contributors.

 

[HabsCode]

Sigh...I never said their rebuild is done. It is not.

But it doesn't stay stagnant in perpetual losing...of course they're not done, but they're also not trying to losing for the next 4 years just to stack high draft picks. THat's not how winning organizations operate.

Of course, when you take over a team in shambles, you often times have to take a step back (which we've been doing the last 3 years really, it was just masked by an unexpected run to the Finals) but you don't intentionally stay in this cesspool of sucktude indefinitely.


If I misunderstood your takes - my mistake.

But i've been debating the same thing consistently here. That I don't think this team needs to be bad for the next 3-4 years.


Every new GM inherits something...man that term is just awful lol.

Who cares, the point is that Steve Yzerman took over a team in shambles...2 years later, they're on the upswing. This falls in line with my ORIGINAL point, that anything beyond 2 years of being terrible under this new regime is unacceptable, and really given this team has been terrible the last few years, it really doesn't even need to take that long.

IF the people in charge are at all competent.


Not really...i'd say they're at year 3.

The Red Wings rebuild doesn't fall in line with your original point. You want to be competitive as soon as next season.

Yzerman drafted Seider when he came in because the team finished 28th the season before. Red Wings finished 31th(last) in the league in 2019-2020 and got Raymond. Finished 27th the season after and got Edvisson. That's 3 high pick in a row. And that's actually by year 3 and not year 2 that he became competitive (and this is yet to be determined). That's three "tank" (or whatever you want to call it) season to build his main core.

Unless you think 2019,2020 and 2021 drafts setted us up for being futur cup contender long-term, I would say the Habs are barely starting their rebuild.

The Habs haven't had a high pick since Kotkaniemi and he left the team. The only piece the Habs have that could be considered elite is Suzuki and he is pacing for a 44 points season.

 

[HabsCode]

In youg you absolutly need to count on Suzuki, Caufield, Romanov, Phoeling, Ghule. What the wings did and what we did not is commit to develop there key guys outside of the NHL unless they can be positive contributors.

Seider was in the NHL in his D+3 season, Raymond in his D+2 season.

Romanov was in the NHL in his D+3 season, Ghule his still in junior in his D+2, Poehling had his first NHL game in his D+3 season, Caufield his first NHL game in his D+2 seasons.

The difference is the development of those prospect, yes, but mainly the quality of them too.

 

[sampollock]

We need a letter from Jeff to let the fans know this team will change

 

[sampollock]

it would not surprise me if CC is included in a deal

not shocked at all