Proposal: Trade Proposal Thread: Part 61

[Destopcorner]

Couturier is having a miserable season in Philly so I think he might be available at the right price. One of the few still young veteran from Quebec and would be a great 2nd center behind Suzuki. What would the Flyers ask ? What do they need?

 

[Runner77]

We suck this year and are likely going to draft in the top 5-10. That much is a given.

A top 5 finish would also mean picking early every round. That puts the 2nd round pick within very close range of a late first rounder.

With the right scouting staff backing the picks and a decent draft class, there could be some hits in the lot. I know, the stars still need to align to some extent.

 

[danyhabsfan]

Couturier is having a miserable season in Philly so I think he might be available at the right price. One of the few still young veteran from Quebec and would be a great 2nd center behind Suzuki. What would the Flyers ask ? What do they need?

7.75M until 2030 and with what cap space...

 

[calder candidate]

You're misunderstanding what i'm saying.

All i'm saying is that the draft is a very inexact science...less energy should be spent on trying to position where you're drafting and more energy and resources should be poured into assuring you're prepared to draft the best possible player, at your selection.


I wouldn't be so sure about that and I hope Gorton/New GM don't have this attitude.

Around this time last year, everyone was also convinced Shane Wright was a generational talent too, today? Not so much. Things can change quickly when you're talking about 15-16-17yr olds.


Or sooner.

When the Habs sucked one year and ended up trading Dale Weise & Tomas Fleischmann for a 2nd round pick and little-known, even less-regarded Phil Danault.

It wasn't a blockbuster deal, but by the next season, Danault was already a fixture on this team and eventually developed into one of the top defensive Cs in the game.

So yes, I agree, the goal is to make good hockey trades...If you're amateur/pro scouting is on their Ps & Qs, the payoff doesn't have to be 2-3 years down the line.

Tanking for a other season doesn't mean not managing asset or not putting any effort in to scouting, or losing for the next 5 years...
None of the resource that go toward preparing for the draft or pro scouting have anything to do with trying us to having the best possible position... We are not taking anything away from amateur or pro scout by finish lower, if anything it might help since they are probably even more motivated and able to focus more on certain player.

No one is saying that we can't get prospect in trade, we just need the best return regarless of how we get it. The Danault deal is a good example of thing we should be doing in the next 2 seasons... FYI Danault might not have been has highly regarded as other CHI prospects but he was a 1ppg in the Q and a 1st round pick that was tracking well, he wasn't some obscure player pick in the 3rd rd not going anything...

Trading and developpment is not a exact science either or else no team would have trade away player like Stephenson, Forsberg, Danault, Mcdo, Sergachev, Zibanejad, Brobosky, Suzuki... Vegas almost made a dynasty out of fleecing teams that didn't evaluate there own player properly, but they made some some big mistake, you will win some trade and lose other, just like the draft...

Also thing do change quickly an Wright could still become a generational player or a elite player or just a impact player in the NHL and Bedard and Michkov look even more impressive or they could all bust but we are in a position to have a legit shot at them right now and you will say no I'm good, I'm hoping to make the playoff if we end up drafting 12th I'll take that chance, I rather take my chance drafting top 2, if we miss I still want the BPA, the following season you can think about trying to make the playoff not any sooner...

It not like we are tearing apart a great team in hope to land a 1st OV...We aren't winning the cup next year regarless, the goal should not be trying to make the playoff next year, it should be winning multiple cups in the futur. Any traded in order to try to make the playoff will be shooting are self in the foot getting us further from a potential impact players also likely not getting the best return...

 

[Runner77]

here…..I’ll do it for you

Im so desperate for talent man, I not only want to watch us win but I want them to do it with style.
So many good pieces in place, we just need a few more high end talented guys (through a draft) and some really shrewd type trades.

I’m tired of watching TSN top 100 goals and we have 1 candidate at #84……every time there’s a Hab in a top 50 of whatever it’s a goalie save…..like I’m so fed up

Exactly. We need at least one offensive franchise forward who will put up those high point totals and will be a factor or threat, game in and game out.

A franchise goalie is not needed for a Cup run. Nice to have but in the cap era, you don't want your cap room concentrated so heavily on a player who is not an offensive talent.

 

[Runner77]

Juulsen got injured a lot.

Juulsen had plenty of red flags on account of several concussion events and that's before those freak back to back injuries that took him out and may have decided his career. He was a bad gamble. This is when a smart GM will trade the pick, rather than settle on a player with longstanding medical impediments. Multiple major concussions suffered by a player vying for a career in a contact sport? Pass!

 

[Habs Icing]

Couturier is having a miserable season in Philly so I think he might be available at the right price. One of the few still young veteran from Quebec and would be a great 2nd center behind Suzuki. What would the Flyers ask ? What do they need?

He ain't from Quebec. New Brunswick way of Arizona.

 

[Habs Icing]

A top 5 finish would also mean picking early every round. That puts the 2nd round pick within very close range of a late first rounder.

With the right scouting staff backing the picks and a decent draft class, there could be some hits in the lot. I know, the stars still need to align to some extent.

I totally agree with you but have we made any changes to our scouting staff aside from the obvious one?

 

[sampollock]

Exactly. We need at least one offensive franchise forward who will put up those high point totals and will be a factor or threat, game in and game out.

A franchise goalie is not needed for a Cup run. Nice to have but in the cap era, you don't want your cap room concentrated so heavily on a player who is not an offensive talent.

true enough
this team has lacked a big goal man for many years... Jeff your on the clock

 

[Vachon23]

Couturier is having a miserable season in Philly so I think he might be available at the right price. One of the few still young veteran from Quebec and would be a great 2nd center behind Suzuki. What would the Flyers ask ? What do they need?

I LOVE Couturier but at he's turning 30 next yrs, not sur he's the type of player where searching with what where trying to do right now.

 

[417]

here…..I’ll do it for you

Im so desperate for talent man, I not only want to watch us win but I want them to do it with style.
So many good pieces in place, we just need a few more high end talented guys (through a draft) and some really shrewd type trades.

I’m tired of watching TSN top 100 goals and we have 1 candidate at #84……every time there’s a Hab in a top 50 of whatever it’s a goalie save…..like I’m so fed up

I felt every piece of this post man lol

 

[417]

A top 5 finish would also mean picking early every round. That puts the 2nd round pick within very close range of a late first rounder.

With the right scouting staff backing the picks and a decent draft class, there could be some hits in the lot. I know, the stars still need to align to some extent.

Well i'd expect the Habs to add at minimum an extra 1st, perhaps 2nd and for sure another 3rd (which they already have 3 of)

 

[sampollock]

no way Jeff takes on a guy over 30 unless it is in a trade deal for a cash dump
this team needs to get younger, which will be his goal

 

[417]

Tanking for a other season doesn't mean not managing asset or not putting any effort in to scouting, or losing for the next 5 years...None of the resource that go toward preparing for the draft or pro scouting have anything to do with trying us to having the best possible position... We are not taking anything away from amateur or pro scout by finish lower, if anything it might help since they are probably even more motivated and able to focus more on certain player.

I'm well aware of what the parameters of tanking are...i'm just not super comfortable throwing in a towel on a season that hasn't even arrived for a player we MIGHT be able to draft at the conclusion of next season.

I mean, what happens if there's another "Bedard" the year after, I mean, you did it 2 years ago...why not a 3rd year in a row?

What does all that losing do to the current crop of players that you're hoping are the leaders for the next group of players who will be joining the team? What does all that losing do to an organization?

It seems like this is glossed over, like there's no impact on that and I think that's a very dangerous way of thinking.

No one is saying that we can't get prospect in trade, we just need the best return regarless of how we get it. The Danault deal is a good example of thing we should be doing in the next 2 seasons... FYI Danault might not have been has highly regarded as other CHI prospects but he was a 1ppg in the Q and a 1st round pick that was tracking well, he wasn't some obscure player pick in the 3rd rd not going anything...

I wasn't suggesting that Danault was a nobody, just that when we acquired him...it's not like anyone was thinking, Oh snap, we just got a future Selke-worthy center.

The point I was making bringing up Danault is that it's an example of how you can improve your team through various means, including identifying undervalued players on other organizations. These moves matter as much as trying to worm your way into a lottery.

Trading and developpment is not a exact science either or else no team would have trade away player like Stephenson, Forsberg, Danault, Mcdo, Sergachev, Zibanejad, Brobosky, Suzuki... Vegas almost made a dynasty out of fleecing teams that didn't evaluate there own player properly, but they made some some big mistake, you will win some trade and lose other, just like the draft...

I mean, yes and no...different teams, have different ambitions so sacrifices are made for a greater good. It happens.

But I don't disagree with the quoted post here. Yes, you win some and you lose some, just like the draft. But it seems like a lot of people think the only pathway to success, is to suck. That as a philosophy doesn't sit right with me.

Also thing do change quickly an Wright could still become a generational player or a elite player or just a impact player in the NHL and Bedard and Michkov look even more impressive or they could all bust but we are in a position to have a legit shot at them right now and you will say no I'm good, I'm hoping to make the playoff if we end up drafting 12th I'll take that chance, I rather take my chance drafting top 2, if we miss I still want the BPA, the following season you can think about trying to make the playoff not any sooner...

It not like we are tearing apart a great team in hope to land a 1st OV...We aren't winning the cup next year regarless, the goal should not be trying to make the playoff next year, it should be winning multiple cups in the futur. Any traded in order to try to make the playoff will be shooting are self in the foot getting us further from a potential impact players also likely not getting the best return...

I don't know a ton about Wright, Bedard and Michkov...I read a lot of "generational talent" tag being thrown around, which is something I think is used all too freely, I don't think these players are in the Crosby/Ovechkin/'McDavid tier, which are players who can singlehandedly change the fortunes of their franchises. So I have a hard time wrapping my head around sacrificing the next 18 months for a player we MIGHT, in a utopian reality, be able to draft.

If it happens by circumstance, that the team as is, just sucks again next year...then OK, that's where the things are aligning, then I 100% get it.

But next season hasn't even started. This isn't a team completely devoid of talent, there's over 50M sitting on the sidelines for various reasons. I don't know if the team i've watched this year, is truly the team it is. So i'm not sure today, December 30, 2021....that i'm ready to throw the next 18 months out of the window to maybe draft Connor Bedard in July 2023.

 

[salbutera]

If Habs land 1OA I would dangle and see if Van bites on potentially trading Petersson

This years pick needs to net a potential high ceiling player and the the little I know of this draft cuvée…. It doesn’t have such a talent IMO

 

[tazsub3]

no way Jeff takes on a guy over 30 unless it is in a trade deal for a cash dump
this team needs to get younger, which will be his goal

Agree, that would have been a typical bargin bin move.

 

[sampollock]

Agree, that would have been a typical bargin bin move.

Yup those days are over, it is time to build a young fast and build a team with a PP for once

 

[McGees]

I don't know a ton about Wright, Bedard and Michkov...I read a lot of "generational talent" tag being thrown around, which is something I think is used all too freely, I don't think these players are in the Crosby/Ovechkin/'McDavid tier, which are players who can singlehandedly change the fortunes of their franchises. So I have a hard time wrapping my head around sacrificing the next 18 months for a player we MIGHT, in a utopian reality, be able to draft.

Bedard and Michkov are in that ‘generational tier’ and you’ll be hearing a lot more about them over then next year and a half.

 

[417]

Bedard and Michkov are in that ‘generational tier’ and you’ll be hearing a lot more about them over then next year and a half.

We'll see...I haven't seen enough of them to say either way.

I remember reading the same thing about Shane Wright leading up to this year too, now not so much. Things change quickly.

 

[Gravity]

We'll see...I haven't seen enough of them to say either way.

I remember reading the same thing about Shane Wright leading up to this year too, now not so much. Things change quickly.

Shane Wright was never touted as a generational talent. He was supposed to be a slightly more offensive Toews/Bergeron. He never was in the same tier as Bedard/Michkov.

 

[417]

Shane Wright was never touted as a generational talent. He was supposed to be a slightly more offensive Toews/Bergeron. He never was in the same tier as Bedard/Michkov.

Just relaying to you the things I've heard and read...and Shane Wright being a generational talent is definitely something I heard before this year. The first time I heard about Wright, he was like 12 or 13, usually when guys names are out there at that age, that tag gets thrown around.

Of course, now those same people have backed off that but it just highlights how highly volatile it is.

 

[Gravity]

Just relaying to you the things I've heard and read...and Shane Wright being a generational talent is definitely something I heard before this year. The first time I heard about Wright, he was like 12 or 13, usually when guys names are out there at that age, that tag gets thrown around.

Of course, now those same people have backed off that but it just highlights how highly volatile it is.

Sure perhaps when he was 12-13. In the last year plus, at least I have yet to find anyone mention Wright as a generational talent. Yeah the switch can flip but given what Bedard and Michkov are doing this year in their D-1, it's a safe bet to say they'll be better than Wright.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Bedard and Michkov are in that ‘generational tier’ and you’ll be hearing a lot more about them over then next year and a half.

Kind of strange to not hear the difference already. Michkov's production comparable at the same age is Ovechkin thus far and Bedard's comparables are McDavid and Crosby (in terms of underlying stuff, haven't checked his actual production) and he's been compared to them since he was 13. They're as "generational" as prospects can be.

I don't even follow prospects that much and its pretty obvious that they have "it". Whether they can live up to the hype is one thing, but they both have clear dominate the entire NHL upside. You absolutely tank for them if you're a garbage team now.

 

[DAChampion]

Kind of strange to not hear the difference already. Michkov's production comparable at the same age is Ovechkin thus far and Bedard's comparables are McDavid and Crosby and he's been compared to them since he was 13. They're as "generational" as prospects can be.

I don't even follow prospects that much and its pretty obvious that they have "it". Whether they can live up to the hype is one thing, but they both have clear dominate the entire NHL upside. You absolutely tank for them if you're a garbage team now.

Is the 3rd overall for that year going to be any good?

 

[Captain Mountain]

Is the 3rd overall for that year going to be any good?

Again, I don't really follow prospects that much, so I don't have much idea. I just know the ones that really stand out. Bedard and Michkov do because they already look like they're quicker and more skilled than whoever they're up against.