HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #88: 2024 Off-Season Thread

[Rapala]

It's not about writing off Barron but horse-trading to get a better player in a position of need.

Habs fans are too obsessed with the poverty mentality from the Bergevin era. We have too many d-men and too few forwards, it's perfectly find to trade a non-contributor to get a roster upgrade. If Barron does good elsewhere that's fine -- good for him and his new team -- but it's not like his ceiling is specifically and indisputably higher than our other defensive players who are ahead of him on our depth chart.

Right now we have Guhle Savard and Barron as our top three RD.
We know Savard isn't going anywhere until TDL and hasn't been a great pairing with Matheson.
We also know none of our kids are ready to take on Guhle's RD minutes.
Barron needs to establish himself as a solid mobile bottom pairing D.
From what I saw towards the end of last season he can do it.
He started using his frame in Laval and was very effective moving the puck quickly.
Kovacevic getting dumped tells me Barron isn't or at least the plan isn't to dump him.
He'll get his minutes this year and they may hang on to him next season as well.
There is no doubt in my mind he'll be a better 7 than Kovacevic was.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Bro, Barron is awful be thankful someone takes him and his enormous helmet from us. Sakic doesn't just trade away hidden gems, he didn't slide under the radar, he's just not a very good blueliner at this point, he hasn't shown anything to suggest he will be.

What is it about him you like? He's soft, pushed off the puck easily, struggles in his own end. Yes he has offensive potential but I don't see anything exceptional here? What am I missing?

22 year old right shot blueliner.

People need to chill. Defensemen take longer to develop. Now is the perfect time to evaluate players and give them opportunity.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

It's not about writing off Barron but horse-trading to get a better player in a position of need.

Habs fans are too obsessed with the poverty mentality from the Bergevin era. We have too many d-men and too few forwards, it's perfectly find to trade a non-contributor to get a roster upgrade. If Barron does good elsewhere that's fine -- good for him and his new team -- but it's not like his ceiling is specifically and indisputably higher than our other defensive players who are ahead of him on our depth chart.

I don’t think we have too few forwards. Our second line this year is Newhook, Dach and Roy. Beck is coming up for the third and next year we’ll have Demidov. That’ll bump Newhook down to play with Beck. We’ve got a great young stable of talent up front. Old man Suzuki is 25.

 

[Tyson]

Looking at historical data of players taken 14th overall I saw that Brian Propp had a 1000 point career, Sergei Gonchar had 811 points but other than that not many players taken at that spot have had superstar careers. I would be weary of trading the farm for McGroarty.

 

[Habs]

22 year old right shot blueliner.

People need to chill. Defensemen take longer to develop. Now is the perfect time to evaluate players and give them opportunity.

He's been here 3 years, hasn't cracked a pretty weak blueline and been surpassed by others already. Even if he has talent, it appears MSL doesn't trust his play much over the other kids. If he's the missing piece in a trade, you move him and don't look back. I know there is a patience level here, but who do you see him replacing on this current blueline?

 

[Habs]

Looking at historical data of players taken 14th overall I saw that Brian Propp had a 1000 point career, Sergei Gonchar had 811 points but other than that not many players taken at that spot have had superstar careers. I would be weary of trading the farm for McGroarty.

McAvoy and Seabrook !

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

He's been here 3 years,

39 games two years ago, 48 last season. That’s not a lot.

hasn't cracked a pretty weak blueline and been surpassed by others already. Even if he has talent, it appears MSL doesn't trust his play much over the other kids. If he's the missing piece in a trade, you move him and don't look back. I know there is a patience level here, but who do you see him replacing on this current blueline?

He doesn’t need to replace anyone. Guhle will eventually move back to the left. RB will be number one, Mailloux number two. He can be on the third pair. Savard isn’t going to be here long term.

We owe it to ourselves to see this through. Give him every opportunity. If he doesn’t pan out, that’s okay.

But I’ll be pissed if we trade this guy away and he turns into a decent player somewhere. We’ve already invested time in him, we need to see if it pays off. There’s no harm in giving him a chance.

 

[Habs]

39 games two years ago, 48 last season. That’s not a lot.

He doesn’t need to replace anyone. Guhle will eventually move back to the left. RB will be number one, Mailloux number two. He can be on the third pair. Savard isn’t going to be here long term.

We owe it to ourselves to see this through. Give him every opportunity. If he doesn’t pan out, that’s okay.

But I’ll be pissed if we trade this guy away and he turns into a decent player somewhere. We’ve already invested time in him, we need to see if it pays off. There’s no harm in giving him a chance.

That's the risk you have to take if you think it improves your team. I know you like the kid, guess we will wait and see what the organization thinks soon enough

 

[Rapala]

He's been here 3 years, hasn't cracked a pretty weak blueline and been surpassed by others already. Even if he has talent, it appears MSL doesn't trust his play much over the other kids. If he's the missing piece in a trade, you move him and don't look back. I know there is a patience level here, but who do you see him replacing on this current blueline?

Did you watch Laval play last season at all?
Because if you did you should know that so far no one has surpassed him.
Justin Barron would be snapped up off waivers before you could blink.
HuGo will go with 8 D before that ever happens the Ylonen and Allen dossiers last season show us that.
They will only move Barron in what they deem to be an equitable trade not because our fanbase is down on the dude.

 

[ReHabs]

I don’t think we have too few forwards. Our second line this year is Newhook, Dach and Roy. Beck is coming up for the third and next year we’ll have Demidov. That’ll bump Newhook down to play with Beck. We’ve got a great young stable of talent up front. Old man Suzuki is 25.

Good depth is when your third liners can step up. Otherwise, aside from Suzuki, not one of these names has ever hit 50pts. We might have different standards and expectations. Newhook Dach and Roy is not remotely proven to be beyond doubt in any way.

 

[417]

You lost me.

How?

If you're going to apply that logic with NCAA players, shouldn't you apply it to players from the CHL and other leagues.

But its not MY logic, I was responding to a poster who said that the NHL needs to force players drafted from the NCAA to sign with the team that drafts them.

So in response, I said unless that goes both ways, as in, teams have to sign the players they draft, it will never happen .

 

[Rapala]

Good depth is when your third liners can step up. Otherwise, aside from Suzuki, not one of these names has ever hit 50pts. We might have different standards and expectations. Newhook Dach and Roy is not remotely proven to be beyond doubt in any way.

Our third line is an issue.
Neither Dvorak nor Evans are likely to be able to eke production out of Armia Roy Newhook Gallagher or Anderson.
Not to mention two of those guys are probably lined up with Dach. We are likely going to be playing another season with one productive line.
Once again we will need career years out of just about every younger player.
Dach will help take some of the burden off Suzuki having to carry the team but I'm not sure it will result in a huge gain in GF.
We'll need to make gains in GA and on special teams for sure.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

That's the risk you have to take if you think it improves your team. I know you like the kid, guess we will wait and see what the organization thinks soon enough

I just feel like right now with the state we’re in, the team should focus on developing the players and prospects we already have.

If we were contenders, sure. I’d get behind dealing away guys like this. But right now, I’d prefer we stay the course. Play these kinds of players and see if they can pan out.

It’s not that I’m totally against a trade now but I feel like it shouldn’t be a priority, I’d rather see what we have and make moves from there.

Our third line is an issue.
Neither Dvorak nor Evans are likely to be able to eke production out of Armia Roy Newhook Gallagher or Anderson.
Not to mention two of those guys are probably lined up with Dach. We are likely going to be playing another season with one productive line.
Once again we will need career years out of just about every younger player.
Dach will help take some of the burden off Suzuki having to carry the team but I'm not sure it will result in a huge gain in GF.
We'll need to make gains in GA and on special teams for sure.

Our third line looks good long term. Beck on the way… Demidove will push down one of Newhook or Roy. And we already have a bunch of bottom six guys who can fill in.

Hage, Mesar, Xhejac… more guys on the way there as well. They won’t all pan out but some will. And we still have to burn off at least another year of Gallagher and Anderson.

Good depth is when your third liners can step up. Otherwise, aside from Suzuki, not one of these names has ever hit 50pts. We might have different standards and expectations. Newhook Dach and Roy is not remotely proven to be beyond doubt in any way.

You and I are looking at this through a different lense.

You’re looking at today, I’m looking at tomorrow.

We’re not winning anything today. Start looking at things longer term. You’re standing too close to the wall. Take ten steps back and you’ll be able to see the whole picture.

 

[Miller Time]

Good depth is when your third liners can step up. Otherwise, aside from Suzuki, not one of these names has ever hit 50pts. We might have different standards and expectations. Newhook Dach and Roy is not remotely proven to be beyond doubt in any way.

Panthers had their big 3, then added Tarasenko at the deadline. Their cup winning depth at forward wasn't built on guys that were "proven" in their early 20's...

Verhaeghe first hit 50 points at D9
Bennett has never hit 50, nor have Lundell, Rodrigues or Luostarinen.

The question for us over next few seasons is less about our depth as it is about the top of the list. Nick is there. No reason to doubt that Slaf & Caufield will become impact first line producers over the next 2-4 years. Demidov & Hage are 2 prospects with realistic top line potential. But until we see 2-3 guys at that around that ppg level, fair to question if we will have the firepower to contend.

That said, the cap room to make a trade or signing to target another piece is there over next few years.

The depth question is the least of our worries, imo.

Dach, Newhook, Roy are on track to at worst be solid middle 6 NHLers.

Any 1 or 2 of Heineman, Mesar, Beck, Rohrer, Kapanen, Farrell, Xjr, Kidney, Davidson, Koivu Sawyer etc. making it as a regular NHLer further buffers the roster, plus any targeted trade or signing to fill a specific need.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Three years from now (feel free to change things around if you wish)

Slaf Suzuki Demidov
Roy Dach Cc
Newhook Beck Hage
Xhejac Evans Mesar

Will it work out exactly this way? Almost certainly not. But the bulk of those players will be in the lineup. And under that scenario you have a pretty good quality third line. Xhejak will be pushing upwards and we’ll have more prospects on the way - two more first rounders next year.

Newhook (or Roy) getting pushed to the third is a great sign. It shows that our top six is getting to be pretty hard to crack. There’s awesome depth on the way.

 

[BargainBinSpecial]

Three years from now (feel free to change things around if you wish)

Slaf Suzuki Demidov
Roy Dach Cc
Newhook Beck Hage
Xhejac Evans Mesar

Will it work out exactly this way? Almost certainly not. But the bulk of those players will be in the lineup. And under that scenario you have a pretty good quality third line. Xhejak will be pushing upwards and we’ll have more prospects on the way - two more first rounders next year.

Newhook (or Roy) getting pushed to the third is a great sign. It shows that our top six is getting to be pretty hard to crack. There’s awesome depth on the way.

Looks weak. Dach is injury prone, time to move on.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Looks weak. Dach is injury prone, time to move on.

As I said, it won’t work out exactly as laid there. But as is, it’s a solid group.

As for Dach being injury prone… we’ll see. He’s had a couple of big unrelated injuries. If he gets hurt again, we’ll re-evaluate. But for now, he’s a great number two.

Dont agree with you that it’s weak. Slaf, Dach, Beck, Xhejak… a bull on each line and there’s size throughout the lineup. Dont forget the grit we have on the back end. Big players throughout including another Xhjak.

 

[Sterling Archer]

Looks weak. Dach is injury prone, time to move on.

Two freak injuries to completely different parts of his body. I’d call that unlucky, not prone.

 

[McGees]

We worried about trading BArron now???
We might as well also make Ty Smilanic an untouchable while we are at it.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

We worried about trading BArron now???
We might as well also make Ty Smilanic an untouchable while we are at it.

Did anyone say that Barron was untouchable?

 

[Rapala]

We worried about trading BArron now???
We might as well also make Smilanic an untouchable while we are at it.

Weird comment.
Where did you read anyone state they are worried about trading Barron?
Kent Hughes was the one who got Barron and he's not going to move him for less than he deems his value to be.
Which is a whole heck of a lot higher than you read on this forum I can tell you that.

 

[McGees]

Did anyone say that Barron was untouchable?

They are worried about trading him for an upgrade at F...and if you aren't willing to trade someone who is about to be waiver eligible and has almost used up all their potential value like Barron, then who are we supposed to trade?

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

They are worried about trading him for an upgrade at F...and if you aren't willing to trade someone who is about to be waiver eligible and has almost used up all their potential value like Barron, then who are we supposed to trade?

It’s not that I think we can’t trade Barron, it’s that we really have no need for another forward.

I’m willing to trade Barron, sure. But why do it for what we already have?

I don’t want a guy who thinks he deserves a slot in the top six when he’s proven nothing. We already have a solid top six. Why the rush to trade away a 22 year old RD with promise?

 

[Tyson]

McAvoy and Seabrook !

Charlie deserves some accolades as does Seabrook.

 

[McGees]

It’s not that I think we can’t trade Barron, it’s that we really have no need for another forward.

I’m willing to trade Barron, sure. But why do it for what we already have?

I don’t want a guy who thinks he deserves a slot in the top six when he’s proven nothing. We already have a solid top six. Why the rush to trade away a 22 year old RD with promise?

How do we not have need for another forward???
That is exactly what we lack. We have too many D not forwards.
I think McG is just using that as a tactic to leave a franchise he doesn't want to be part of, like Cutter. Maybe our evaluations are different but I think he will have a much better career than Barron.

Weird comment.
Where did you read anyone state they are worried about trading Barron?
Kent Hughes was the one who got Barron and he's not going to move him for less than he deems his value to be.
Which is a whole heck of a lot higher than you read on this forum I can tell you that.

Why is it weird? It is what people were saying a page or 2 back.
You know values change right?
I don't think he is worth what he was traded for or drafted with anymore.
Again, maybe our evaluations of him are different but he is waiver eligible soon and hasn't even cemented a bottom pair spot...I'd trade that way before crossing my fingers he finally puts it all together or lose him for nothing.