HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #88: 2024-25 Season

[Habs Icing]

No question, Hughes, like all competent General Managers, is always looking to improve the team. But over the long years that I have followed hockey and the repeated times that I witnessed efforts to rebuild, reconstitute and re-position my favorite team, I have come to embrace the old adage that the best deals are usually the ones that you don't enter into.

I think the adage uses the adverb "sometimes" and not "usually". Because if it was "usually" then one should usually not make any trades.

 

[Habs Icing]

I could get 7 points in in 10 games playing with those 2 .It seems besides passing.... getting those points he is not doing anything well.He is not skating well ,is not physical for a big dude.Doesn;t carry the puck for any length of time.Just gets it and passes quickly

It must be a secret to you, so I'll share it. Slaf is only 20 years old and he was injured for a big chunk of his 1st-year.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Definitely smoke in Vancouver... They likely tried to move Miller but that NMC is creating issues. Pettersson's NMC kicks in July and he has been inconsistent for them. Massive cap hit as well so yeah, I can see them moving Pettersson and the offers they get will be enormous.

Likely still want to remain competitive while Hughes contract nears an end. So their targets are pieces they can use now. What team offers that to them? Cozens/Byram gets it done but is it too much for the Sabres? I also wonder about how the Sabres feel about that large contract and if Pettersson wants to be there. No way they want another J Eichel situation

I'm pretty sure Dach, Matheson, and one of our 1st is a very competitive offer. Dach still RFA after his deal and Matheson for 1.5 seasons on a value contract. 1st is the sweetener that gets their attention. They would have to believe in Dach's ability though.

What do the Habs think if Dach continues to gain confidence/momentum over the next month? We could very well say... Yeah, we are not interested in a Dach+ trade for Pettersson.

 

[DAChampion]

What do the Habs think if Dach continues to gain confidence/momentum over the next month? We could very well say... Yeah, we are not interested in a Dach+ trade for Pettersson.

It's a tough call. It's natural to be overly attached to our own players.

One way to go is that if Dach continues to improve, and Hage, Beck, and Demidov continue to torch their leagues, conclude that work is done at forward and focus on acquiring an RD.

 

[eklund the clown]

It must be a secret to you, so I'll share it. Slaf is only 20 years old and he was injured for a big chunk of his 1st-year.

What secret?He has been underperforming all year and like i said in a previous post he doesn't. belong on the 1st line at this point anyways.He is holding that line up from being really good

 

[Deus ex machina]

Definitely smoke in Vancouver... They likely tried to move Miller but that NMC is creating issues. Pettersson's NMC kicks in July and he has been inconsistent for them. Massive cap hit as well so yeah, I can see them moving Pettersson and the offers they get will be enormous.

Likely still want to remain competitive while Hughes contract nears an end. So their targets are pieces they can use now. What team offers that to them? Cozens/Byram gets it done but is it too much for the Sabres? I also wonder about how the Sabres feel about that large contract and if Pettersson wants to be there. No way they want another J Eichel situation

I'm pretty sure Dach, Matheson, and one of our 1st is a very competitive offer. Dach still RFA after his deal and Matheson for 1.5 seasons on a value contract. 1st is the sweetener that gets their attention. They would have to believe in Dach's ability though.

What do the Habs think if Dach continues to gain confidence/momentum over the next month? We could very well say... Yeah, we are not interested in a Dach+ trade for Pettersson.

I'm pretty sure they're already not interested in a Dach+ trade for Pettersson.
Pettersson just doesn't fit in their cap structure and probably neither in their team culture.

FWIW, i've never seen MTL linked to Pettersson in any trade rumor or insider info yet. There's not even a little smoke on this.
I wouldn't hold my breath if i were you.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I'm pretty sure they're already not interested in a Dach+ trade for Pettersson.
Pettersson just doesn't fit in their cap structure and probably neither in their team culture.

FWIW, i've never seen MTL linked to Pettersson in any trade rumor or insider info yet. There's not even a little smoke on this.
I wouldn't hold my breath if i were you.

I don't agree they are not interested in Pettersson. Our cap structure is not tight and yes, Pettersson has a huge cap hit but why does it not fit our structure? Because it's more than Suzuki and/or we have to sign Hutson? I don't see these are reasons why to not engage in Pettersson.

If you told me the Habs still value Dach very high and will become a 60+ center as the reason, I would buy that argument that we are not interested in Pettersson. Or another reason... Pettersson has injury issues lately, and too much risk to trade good assets for someone who may never live up to that contract.

 

[Habs Halifax]

It's a tough call. It's natural to be overly attached to our own players.

One way to go is that if Dach continues to improve, and Hage, Beck, and Demidov continue to torch their leagues, conclude that work is done at forward and focus on acquiring an RD.

Reasonable for sure. I'm pretty sure our management still believes in Dach after his rough 1st half of season after the long term injury.

I'm open to Dach++ for Pettersson but I'm also open to monitor Dach's performance in the next month. If we choose to put our trust into Dach's growth, so be it. There is still lots to like with Dach

The RD is almost impossible. Yes, we need to keep searching but they are just not available and when they are, we will have to trade some players we probably prefer not to trade. We are talking about a top 4RD who moves the needle right? I think Matheson should stay. He's our RD and if we have both 1st rounders (not traded), we can draft RD's and Matheson for 4 years (1 year next year plus 3 more) is decent time to develop someone. That includes Mailloux and BK and who we might draft.

 

[CapSpace]

Definitely smoke in Vancouver... They likely tried to move Miller but that NMC is creating issues. Pettersson's NMC kicks in July and he has been inconsistent for them. Massive cap hit as well so yeah, I can see them moving Pettersson and the offers they get will be enormous.

Likely still want to remain competitive while Hughes contract nears an end. So their targets are pieces they can use now. What team offers that to them? Cozens/Byram gets it done but is it too much for the Sabres? I also wonder about how the Sabres feel about that large contract and if Pettersson wants to be there. No way they want another J Eichel situation

I'm pretty sure Dach, Matheson, and one of our 1st is a very competitive offer. Dach still RFA after his deal and Matheson for 1.5 seasons on a value contract. 1st is the sweetener that gets their attention. They would have to believe in Dach's ability though.

What do the Habs think if Dach continues to gain confidence/momentum over the next month? We could very well say... Yeah, we are not interested in a Dach+ trade for Pettersson.

Dach/Matheson/1st is total crap for E.P.

They'd ask for at least one of Reinbacher / Hage / Demidov to be included, maybe even Slaf. And I'm not paying that.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Dach/Matheson/1st is total crap for E.P.

They'd ask for at least one of Reinbacher / Hage / Demidov to be included. And I'm not paying that.

Depends on how you assess Dach. With your "crap" narrative, you also think Dach is crap and will not become a 60+ center. I don't think Dach's value is that low and fans are guilty of devaluing him and any future growth he will have. Of course the Canucks would have to see it the same with Dach's potential (their prerogative) and if they don't, sure, we stay put. They are not getting a Grade A or blue chip on top of a NHL proven piece like Dach from any team in the NHL. And they are not looking for a futures package... they want to win now while Hughes is still under contract. That is pretty clear.

That package with 2 NHL players and a very good 1st (mid range) all depends on how you assess Dach's future. I don't care about your crap narratives (exaggeration). It's the offer I would make and if they laugh in my face, my feelings are not hurt. Interested in Pettersson but not desperate and Dach is not a bust or meh type asset. Dach is the elephant in the room in terms of his true value. He's had injuries that has setback his development and maturity time. I strongly feel we still have a 60+ center when he reaches prime (maybe another year after next). How much more than 60 points? No idea

Let me ask you this... Who do you think is better in the next 5-8 years? Dach or Cozens? I hear about a Byram/Cozens offer from the Sabres but then I also hear multiple Sabres fans saying it's too much. If the Sabres offer both, It probably gets the deal done.

 

[TheBuriedHab]

Yeah lets trade Dach who was brought in to compliment our smaller skilled guys for a soft skilled player because he can score like 10 more points than Suzuki. Genius stuff.

 

[CapSpace]

Depends on how you assess Dach. With your "crap" narrative, you also think Dach is crap and will not become a 60+ center. I don't think Dach's value is that low and fans are guilty of devaluing him and any future growth he will have. Of course the Canucks would have to see it the same with Dach's potential (their prerogative) and if they don't, sure, we stay put. They are not getting a Grade A or blue chip on top of a NHL proven piece like Dach from any team in the NHL. And they are not looking for a futures package... they want to win now while Hughes is still under contract. That is pretty clear.

That package with 2 NHL players and a very good 1st (mid range) all depends on how you assess Dach's future. I don't care about your crap narratives (exaggeration). It's the offer I would make and if they laugh in my face, my feelings are not hurt. Interested in Pettersson but not desperate and Dach is not a bust or meh type asset. Dach is the elephant in the room in terms of his true value. He's had injuries that has setback his development and maturity time. I strongly feel we still have a 60+ center when he reaches prime (maybe another year after next). How much more than 60 points? No idea

Let me ask you this... Who do you think is better in the next 5-8 years? Dach or Cozens? I hear about a Byram/Cozens offer from the Sabres but then I also hear multiple Sabres fans saying it's too much. If the Sabres offer both, It probably gets the deal done.

Didn't say Dach is crap. I said the offer is. Dach would be a gamble for any team, since his injuries + his lack of production this season, even if he starts to look better. You always lose value when you trade a player in that kind of situation.

Petterson is no gamble. E.P. is a ppg player since he entered the league and only 26yo while Dach is not even touching 0.5ppg.

Matheson would help Vancouver but he's gonna be UFA sooner than later.

A mid-range 1st is good, not 'very good', that'd be a top-10.

E.P. is a ppg player since he entered the league and only 26yo while Dach is not even touching 0.5ppg.

Byram/Cozens is a way better offer for Vancouver, but it's a lot to give up from Buffalo. I'd take it tho if I was Allvin.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Didn't say Dach is crap. I said the offer is. Dach would be a gamble for any team, since his injuries + his lack of production this season, even if he starts to look better. You always lose value when you trade a player in that kind of situation.

Petterson is no gamble. E.P. is a ppg player since he entered the league and only 26yo while Dach is not even touching 0.5ppg.

Matheson would help Vancouver but he's gonna be UFA sooner than later.

A mid-range 1st is good, not 'very good', that'd be a top-10.

E.P. is a ppg player since he entered the league and only 26yo while Dach is not even touching 0.5ppg.

Byram/Cozens is a way better offer for Vancouver, but it's a lot to give up from Buffalo. I'd take it tho if I was Allvin.

If you say the offer is crap, you are basically saying Dach is crap. This is not about what was done in the past, it's about what to come. Pettersson stands to remain at pt/game and Dach stands to approach 60+ as he gets more maturity time. Matheson is a very solid top 4D on a value contract for one more season and the Canucks need a D. That 1st could be another Hage bud

Pettersson is no gamble? I don't agree he is not a gamble. A new team and someone who has been soft at times (especially in the playoffs). Of course there are more question marks with Dach vs Pettersson.

I already said Byram/Cozens is a better offer (thanks for repeating it). But that's with the assumption that offer is actually being made which we don't know. It also assumes the Sabres are OK with the looming NMC and Pettersson wants to be in Buffalo. Pretty sure they would be concerned or at least thinking about another Eichel situation that they would clearly want to avoid. It also assumes the Sabres owner is OK with the signing bonus money $10M payment likely in July to start with. I have seen one Sabres fan talk about how cash tight his owner is at the moment.

Same question again... Who do you think has the better 5-8 years moving forward. Dach or Cozens? Honest question

 

[Beendair Donedat]

I don’t think that Hughes has any interest in trading Dach, or moving major assets at this time. He’s clearly a big believer in Dach, and sees him as a key piece moving forward.

He reiterated multiple times today that he’s still rebuilding, all moves are measured against the long term, and he wasn’t sacrificing assets to “win now.”

I don’t see the Habs as being anywhere close to a deal for Pettersson, unless it’s at a very low cost (which it won’t be). They’ll add some pieces here and there, move some contracts out, and continue to develop organically.

 

[The Great Weal]

Yeah lets trade Dach who was brought in to compliment our smaller skilled guys for a soft skilled player because he can score like 10 more points than Suzuki. Genius stuff.

10 more points than Suzuki and maybe 50 more points than Dach. Let's not pretend Dach is a nasty physical monster that consistently overpowers the opponents thanks to his physicality and size.

There are many reasons not to go for Pettersson, but losing out on Dach is not one of them.

 

[TheBuriedHab]

10 more points than Suzuki and maybe 50 more points than Dach. Let's not pretend Dach is a nasty physical monster that consistently overpowers the opponents thanks to his physicality and size.

There are many reasons not to go for Pettersson, but losing out on Dach is not one of them.

Are these estimates at Dach's peak? Or are we going off his play coming off major knee injury? Because when he is at his best, he IS a physical monster and is a very heavy player in the cycle.

 

[montreal]

I would not be against acquiring a vet D as #7 D, and send down Struble to Laval so he can play more.

I don't see them doing that, why risk losing him to waivers?

 

[The Great Weal]

Are these estimates at Dach's peak? Or are we going off his play coming off major knee injury? Because when he is at his best, he IS a physical monster and is a very heavy player in the cycle.

What exactly is Dach's peak? I'm assuming we have to use a whole season as a sample since a stretch isn't entirely representative. 38 points in 58 games? Pettersson's peak is over 100 points in the regular season and over PPG in the playoffs. Why only take into account Dach's injuries and not Pettersson's?

He definitely isn't consistently a "physical monster and very heavy player in the cycle". You see it for a stretch but it fades away.

 

[CHfan1]

If we are in the playoffs, he can be the 13th forward this year.
I'm not suggesting using him long-term as the 13th forward. That's probably Florian...or Tuch

Armia, Dvorak, Evans, there's a regular spot coming for Beck next year.

Caufield- Suzuki - Slaf
Demidov - Dach - Laine
Kapanen/Roy - Newhook - Heineman
Gallagher - Beck - Anderson

I'd only be concerned about our C depth at this point with Hage not yet ready to step in so I wouldn't mind getting a younger Evans back in the Evans/Dvorak/Armia trades.

+ We need to draft a good C this year.

I think it’s a mistake if they run with Suzuki/Dach/Newhook/Beck as their centres next season, specifically Newhook and Beck as their 3/4 centres. If they don’t resign Evans I think they have to find another veteran centre who’s good defensively, decent at face-offs, and can play the PK (especially if they lose their top 3 forwards at the PK this season (Evans, Armia, and Dvorak).

 

[SOLR]

I think it’s a mistake if they run with Suzuki/Dach/Newhook/Beck as their centres next season, specifically Newhook and Beck as their 3/4 centres. If they don’t resign Evans I think they have to find another veteran centre who’s good defensively, decent at face-offs, and can play the PK (especially if they lose their top 3 forwards at the PK this season (Evans, Armia, and Dvorak).

I think you are right, but I think that's Dach, not our bottom 6 Cs in that case.

The ship is sailing on Dach as 2C IMO. If we got a good established 2C, the team would look radically different and we'd have more confidence with our 3c/4c being young.

That doesn't mean necessarily that we wouldn't keep Dach as a top 6 winger or 3C. Maybe Newhook is the one to trade. But I think it's a mistake to get a 3rd class free agent for 3C or to trade NewHook for someone older at 3C. ie. the core of our issues are because the 2C is too weak imo.

That's a very different team in outcomes:

Caufield - Suz - Slaf
Demidov - Hertl - Laine
Kapanen/Roy - Dach/Newhook - Heineman
Anderson - Beck - Gallagher

 

[TheBuriedHab]

What exactly is Dach's peak? I'm assuming we have to use a whole season as a sample since a stretch isn't entirely representative. 38 points in 58 games? Pettersson's peak is over 100 points in the regular season and over PPG in the playoffs. Why only take into account Dach's injuries and not Pettersson's?

He definitely isn't consistently a "physical monster and very heavy player in the cycle". You see it for a stretch but it fades away.

What is Dach's peak? Well we clearly haven't seen it yet since he's gotten hurt each time he's taking the next step.

If you think he's at best a 50 point center than sure I guess. I see him more as a 70-90 point guy depending on PP1 time. He has turned the corner recently and has 5 in his last 6, 3 of those games starting with Pezetta and Newhook on his line. Next year with Demidov and Laine as his linemates I expect those his point totals to sky rocket.

I don't care about EP's injuries. His game went into the tank last year right after he signed his contract. He played 82 games, and then had 1 goal in 13 playoff games.

 

[sampollock]

is there not a Dach thread?

 

[WeThreeKings]

is there not a Dach thread?

Not for me - I ignored it. There's some threads, Slaf, Dach, Reinbacher that just don't deserve attention.

A bunch of people overreacting, trauma dumping and shitting on good kids.

 

[The Great Weal]

What is Dach's peak? Well we clearly haven't seen it yet since he's gotten hurt each time he's taking the next step.

If you think he's at best a 50 point center than sure I guess. I see him more as a 70-90 point guy depending on PP1 time. He has turned the corner recently and has 5 in his last 6, 3 of those games starting with Pezetta and Newhook on his line. Next year with Demidov and Laine as his linemates I expect those his point totals to sky rocket.

I don't care about EP's injuries. His game went into the tank last year right after he signed his contract. He played 82 games, and then had 1 goal in 13 playoff games.

So what was his excuse for the 38 points in 58 games? Injuries prevented him from having over double the production that year?

Well you don't care about his injuries because you are deliberately choosing to ignore context. "Dach hasn't been a 70-90 point center because of injuries" yet "EP has 1 goal in 13 playoff games even if he was injured during that time". Odd how you didn't bring up his 18 points in 17 playoff games.

I'm going to refrain from participating in this conversation given how you only use the injury reason for Dach and cherry pick sample sizes to try and spin it off as Dach>Pettersson when the enormous sample sizes say otherwise.

 

[Captain Mountain]

What is Dach's peak? Well we clearly haven't seen it yet since he's gotten hurt each time he's taking the next step.

If you think he's at best a 50 point center than sure I guess. I see him more as a 70-90 point guy depending on PP1 time. He has turned the corner recently and has 5 in his last 6, 3 of those games starting with Pezetta and Newhook on his line. Next year with Demidov and Laine as his linemates I expect those his point totals to sky rocket.

I don't care about EP's injuries. His game went into the tank last year right after he signed his contract. He played 82 games, and then had 1 goal in 13 playoff games.

I don't see any way Dach becomes a 70-90 point guy unless Montreal sub-optimally uses its PP1.

And all that is probably the only reason he's available in the first place. Montreal has almost never had good center depth and P/GP players in the last 30 years. Pettersson is a 26 year old two way center who has hit the century point mark and who was a P/GP in his first playoff run (2020). Dach hasn't hit 40 points and is two and half years younger.

I don't think there's a real way Montreal could swing a Pettersson deal without including a player they don't want to/shouldn't move (Suzuki, Demidov, etc.), but losing Dach shouldn't be a factor for them not making an offer.