HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #87: 2024 Season Finale

[417]

Anyways, this has gotten well off topic. I'd like Necas but up to a certain extent in terms of cap hit.

Finally off Dubois.

Yes, i'd like Necas too to a certain extend in terms of cap hit...I've maintained that since the beginning of this debate and your subsequent but temporary meltdown.

I said 6.5-7.5M/yr seems to be the sweet spot but I wouldn't walk away at 8M/yr either because that's the market for a player his age/pedigree and who you're buying up to 7 years of free agency years (assuming on an 8 year deal).

That's the cost.

For some reason, you think paying a guy a cap hit that is the equivalent of anywhere from 75th to 80th highest cap hit amongst NHL players, is outrageous.

I just think it's market price.

You can’t bring Necas in and give him more than Suzuki

I don’t think that’s logic at all.

I think 7,5M$ per is the max I’d go for him.

So you'd be willing to pay multiple assets, but 500K/yr more per year is where you draw the line?

Seems like an odd thing to stand by given that 8M today, is more like 6.8M-7M when Suzuki signed his deal.

I'd have much more reservation about the assets i'd have to trade to acquire Necas, rather than the 500K/yr it might cost more per year than Suzuki.

Regardless, I don't even think 8M/yr is what it would take to sign him, that's on the higher end and i'm just entertaining the thought, I still think in the 6.5-7.5M range is the sweet spot. But like I said, if i'm willing to pay the cost of acquisition, stopping at what amounts to 4M spread out over 8 years seems silly at that point.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

Don't think it's cute to want Montreal to acquire a player from an outside source and want to pay them less than our Captain and best player unless they are a better player. Necas, Zegras, Kakko, Laine are certainly not better and some come with potential character issues as well.

No point in emphasizing the locker room only to get someone who might be an issue and then make them the top paid player.

Exactly ! Why don't we wait for the right deal when time comes? Why trying to get players who are lockeroom headaches and then complain it didn't worked with us. Why taking that chance when we all agreed to be patient and rebuild the right way. Just wait Hughes and Gorton to make the right deal. Let them work, they have few years ahead to build brick by brick the new house.

 

[Whalers Fan]

some posters feel that
The Montreal Canadiens acquired Alex Newhook from the Colorado Avalanche in exchange for a 2023 first-round pick (31st overall), a 2023 second-round pick (37th overall), and defenseman Gianni Fairbrother.

What was basically two early 2nd round picks was not an overpayment for a young player of Newhook's caliber. The odds of either of those picks netting the Habs a player as good as Newhook are not good.

I would do Laine + 4oa for Gallagher +5oa!

Columbus wouldn't do that.

 

[Scintillating10]

People's expectations for Necas are just so out of touch here.
Assuming we even have the disposable assets to bring him in...

"I don't want Necas he doesn't play like a 9M player and that's what we need" - yeah but we're not gonna pay him 9M

"Necas is not a perfect player he's not physical, he's not a great playoff performer" - once again we're talking about a 6-7M 2nd liner, if he was all that he'd get 9M+

I think we'd be lucky to have a skilled yet imperfect, 25yo 2nd liner with upside in the low 7s, and most good teams have that type of player for that role at that salary, without expecting him to be the next Rantanen.

A lot of noise around Necas but generally guy Hughes trades for is never in the news. Example being Newhook or Dach.

I think he may make pitch for Rossi. Necas is a lot of money to pay him. Get 50 points out of Rossi

 

[Benstheman]

Finally off Dubois.

Yes, i'd like Necas too to a certain extend in terms of cap hit...I've maintained that since the beginning of this debate and your subsequent but temporary meltdown.

I said 6.5-7.5M/yr seems to be the sweet spot but I wouldn't walk away at 8M/yr either because that's the market for a player his age/pedigree and who you're buying up to 7 years of free agency years (assuming on an 8 year deal).

That's the cost.

For some reason, you think paying a guy a cap hit that is the equivalent of anywhere from 75th to 80th highest cap hit amongst NHL players, is outrageous.

I just think it's market price.


So you'd be willing to pay multiple assets, but 500K/yr more per year is where you draw the line?

Seems like an odd thing to stand by given that 8M today, is more like 6.8M-7M when Suzuki signed his deal.

I'd have much more reservation about the assets i'd have to trade to acquire Necas, rather than the 500K/yr it might cost more per year than Suzuki.

Regardless, I don't even think 8M/yr is what it would take to sign him, that's on the higher end and i'm just entertaining the thought, I still think in the 6.5-7.5M range is the sweet spot. But like I said, if i'm willing to pay the cost of acquisition, stopping at what amounts to 4M spread out over 8 years seems silly at that point.

But Necas is not as good as Suzuki and there is a payroll structure in place that you need to respect.

Player evaluation is key here.

If you sign a proven star player through free agency, I have no problem paying him what he is worth. Necas is not that, at all.

 

[417]

But Necas is not as good as Suzuki and there is a payroll structure in place that you need to respect.

No there isn't..:there's a salary cap that is rising every year and it is based on league revenues, not individual players salary on specific teams.

Player evaluation is key here.

If you sign a proven star player through free agency, I have no problem paying him what he is worth. Necas is not that, at all.

There are few star players who go to free agency anymore, most free agents you see these days are on the back nine of their careers. Just look at this year’s crop.

If Necas was a free agent this summer he’d get that and probably more given his age.

That's why if you're signing him now, as an RFA, for 8 years, you have to pay for those free agent years.

7.5-8M is not a lot of money these days and where the cap is going. Its 2nd line player money.

This isn't 5 years ago. Josh Norris makes just under 8M/yr, you can't in good faith argue that Necas couldn't make that.

This isn't a matter of opinion, just comparables and they are there whether we agree with them or not.

 

[sampollock]

A lot of noise around Necas but generally guy Hughes traded is never in the news. Example being Newhook or Dach.

I think he may make pitch for Rossi. Necas is a lot of money to pay him. Get 50 points out of Rossi

I totally agree every time can't there's a deal we're surprised

 

[The Great Weal]

But Necas is not as good as Suzuki and there is a payroll structure in place that you need to respect.

Player evaluation is key here.

If you sign a proven star player through free agency, I have no problem paying him what he is worth. Necas is not that, at all.

Yeah if Slaf for instance turns into a 70-80 point beast, I'm more than fine paying him more than Suzuki.

I don't think this payroll structure should be set to stone given how the cap is rising, but Martin Necas isn't someone that makes you say "okay I'm fine with breaking this cap".

Not to mention that I think this late 1st+Harris talk will never happen, he's going to cost a lot. I'd expect at least 1st+Roy+ and while Roy also hasn't proven anything yet, I am confident he turns into a 2nd liner himself (maybe not as productive as Necas) and he would probably make around half of that if we sign him at the right time.

Also, at what point does overpaying actually become a big deal in this case? 500k more? Alright fine, we need talent. 1 million more? Still ok, we need talent and have the money? 1.5? 2? 2.5? At what point do you cut it off and say this is the absolute max I would give to a player who likely tops out as a second liner.

 

[Saundies]

A lot of noise around Necas but generally guy Hughes trades for is never in the news. Example being Newhook or Dach.

I think he may make pitch for Rossi. Necas is a lot of money to pay him. Get 50 points out of Rossi

I don't know why this misconception is always brought up. Both Dach and Newhook were in the news.

Dach: Leading up to the draft, it was said he was available, and he could be had for a higher/mid-first-rounder.

Newhook: The Avs traded for Ryan Johansen right before the draft. People knew that, logically, Newhook was the odd guy out at C there and would probably be available.

Were either of these guys linked explicitly to the Habs? I don't really think so. But their names were both out there a lot. Where there's smoke, there's fire.

 

[417]

Yeah if Slaf for instance turns into a 70-80 point beast, I'm more than fine paying him more than Suzuki.

Suzuki didn't need a 70-80pt season to become the highest paid forward in the history of this franchise.

If Slaf turns into a 70-80pt beast, he’ll have an argument to make considerably more.

I don't think this payroll structure should be set to stone given how the cap is rising, but Martin Necas isn't someone that makes you say "okay I'm fine with breaking this cap".

This whole payroll structure thing is an odd concept for me.

Suzuki signed his deal in 2021, its now 2024, yet we’re negotiating deals with players like we’re still in 2021?

Not to mention that I think this late 1st+Harris talk will never happen, he's going to cost a lot. I'd expect at least 1st+Roy+ and while Roy also hasn't proven anything yet, I am confident he turns into a 2nd liner himself (maybe not as productive as Necas) and he would probably make around half of that if we sign him at the right time

Also, at what point does overpaying actually become a big deal in this case? 500k more? Alright fine, we need talent. 1 million more? Still ok, we need talent and have the money? 1.5? 2? 2.5? At what point do you cut it off and say this is the absolute max I would give to a player who likely tops out as a second liner.

You're 100% right that the cost to acquire Martin Necas is going to be steep, which makes it even more odd that if you're willing to meet that cost of acquisition, that the stopping point ends up being 500K more.

We’ll give you a 1st round pick, Joshua Roy and more.

But 7.9M/yr?

That's where we draw the line.

Weird.

 

[themilosh]

A lot of noise around Necas but generally guy Hughes trades for is never in the news. Example being Newhook or Dach.

I think he may make pitch for Rossi. Necas is a lot of money to pay him. Get 50 points out of Rossi

Gorton acquired Zibs and Trochek (both underrated at the time) through trades.. i think hugo knows what they r doing - when it comes to top 6 C

 

[themilosh]

A lot of noise around Necas but generally guy Hughes trades for is never in the news. Example being Newhook or Dach.

I think he may make pitch for Rossi. Necas is a lot of money to pay him. Get 50 points out of Rossi

Just great... you want us to go after a 5'09" C to save a couple mill? Cmon man.

 

[Heffyhoof]

Some need to understand too that the 7.8m AAV contract Suzuki sign in 2021 doesn’t have the same value then a 7.8m AAV today with the salary cap upgrade. The 9,66% of the cap is a more important data

OMGF!! Vachon has gifted all of us maroons with 'extra knowledge'. Piss off. Every single poster here understands the idea of %cap hit based upon the current year's cap hit.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

OMGF!! Vachon has gifted all of us maroons with 'extra knowledge'. Piss off. Every single poster here understands the idea of %cap hit based upon the current year's cap hit.

2008 2014 2021 2024 , at 8m a year Necas is overpaid by 2-3m.

 

[ReHabs]

If Necas was already a Hab the same commentators poo-pooing him would be hyping him imo

 

[Weltschmerz]

Gorton acquired Zibs and Trochek (both underrated at the time) through trades.. i think hugo knows what they r doing - when it comes to top 6 C

Trocheck was signed as UFA when Gorton was long gone.

 

[Habs Halifax]

With Kapanen being a potential 3rd line center, I wouldn’t be against trading Beck in a package for a legit top 6 winger.

Beck + Jets 1st + Barron?

Something worth considering. I thought of the same package. It's a quantity package but a pretty good one.

I'm down for Necas.. as long as we don't have to take KK back. Yuck.

Would Jets 1st, Barron, and Beck work? I'm sure that is competitive to what any other team offers and I suspect the Canes can't take back any big salaries.

 

[CanadienShark]

I seem to recall that not a single team with a player making $10M+ ever won the Cup (I could be wrong or it could have happen since I saw that). But there is something to be said about having a balance cap hit throughout the lineup. That is not to say that Necas shoudn't be paid $8M, but I want MTL to have a approach to the cap similar to Boston where there is hierarchy within the team, and not with the rest of the league.

Eichel won just last year.

 

[HABitual Fan]

Something worth considering. I thought of the same package. It's a quantity package but a pretty good one.



Would Jets 1st, Barron, and Beck work? I'm sure that is competitive to what any other team offers and I suspect the Canes can't take back any big salaries.

In a season in which I don't see the team as a playoff team, I fail to see the need to add a Necas or Laine at the expense of picks and/or young players. Dealing Beck and Barron before we know what we have in them seems shortsighted to me, this is not the year to rush into anything.

I prefer to use the season to continue to evaluate what we have currently, none of the young defense have proven anything with the exception of Guhle at the NHL level so those saying it is a strength and we have excess are mistaken.

Roy and Newhook's potential is that of a 2nd or 3rd liner?

Who we get at #5 whether is a wing or center? How far away are they from the NHL?

Can Barron develop into a legit top 6 RD? As early as the TDL the right side might be Reinbacher-Barron-Mailloux

Will Beck have the potential to be the 3rd line center or the Evans replacement on the 4th line?

Can Armia finally hold down a top 6 spot next to Dach and Newhook and up his trade value?

Can the team develop a legit 3rd and 4th line or will they be stuck overpaying for these players down the line like Gallagher, Dvorak, Anderson and Armia are currently?

When the team starts competing for a playoff spot, guys on ELC or cheap 2nd contracts will be key, so why deal the ones you currently have?

Only moves I want to see are

Adding a cheap veteran RD to move Ghule back to the left side

Possibly a free-agent forward on a 2 year deal that can be a tweener between the 2nd and 3rd line

A legit AHL goalie that can shelter Dobes from a premature injury call-up

Better Vet forwards and defense for Laval even if they are overpaid to attract them

Unloading the deadweight contracts, which is highly doubtful

 

[Benstheman]

Yeah if Slaf for instance turns into a 70-80 point beast, I'm more than fine paying him more than Suzuki.

I don't think this payroll structure should be set to stone given how the cap is rising, but Martin Necas isn't someone that makes you say "okay I'm fine with breaking this cap".

Not to mention that I think this late 1st+Harris talk will never happen, he's going to cost a lot. I'd expect at least 1st+Roy+ and while Roy also hasn't proven anything yet, I am confident he turns into a 2nd liner himself (maybe not as productive as Necas) and he would probably make around half of that if we sign him at the right time.

Also, at what point does overpaying actually become a big deal in this case? 500k more? Alright fine, we need talent. 1 million more? Still ok, we need talent and have the money? 1.5? 2? 2.5? At what point do you cut it off and say this is the absolute max I would give to a player who likely tops out as a second liner.

I agree 100%.

Slaf is a 1st overall drafted by the organization. If he is at some point somewhat equal or better than Suzuki, you pay him more no problem. The thing his Slaf still have room to develop after his contract signing, which you have to pay for too. Necas, not so much.

And absolutely, that’s what I meant by my initial post. Necas is not the player you break your salary structure for. He is good and all but not enough.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

You can’t bring Necas in and give him more than Suzuki.

I don’t think that’s logic at all.

I think 7,5M$ per is the max I’d go for him.

People need to let go of this thing that no one we acquire can get more than Suzuki because reasons.

It's silly and no way to improve.

With that said, in regards to Necas, we're facing the same problem we did with the Jets and Dubois. The team trading them aren't interested in futures and that's all we have to offer.

 

[le_sean]

I agree 100%.

Slaf is a 1st overall drafted by the organization. If he is at some point somewhat equal or better than Suzuki, you pay him more no problem. The thing his Slaf still have room to develop after his contract signing, which you have to pay for too. Necas, not so much.

And absolutely, that’s what I meant by my initial post. Necas is not the player you break your salary structure for. He is good and all but not enough.

Oh no, breaking the salary structure of a bad team.

It’s just following a market that is established by a bunch of factors. If we are determined in keeping Nick Suzuki our best player, we are not going to accomplish anything.

 

[Beendair Donedat]

Eichel won just last year.

To be fair, that only happened after Mark Stone’s annual playoff LTIR resurrection from the depths of deepest darkest injury.

 

[CanadienShark]

To be fair, that only happened after Mark Stone’s annual playoff LTIR resurrection from the depths of deepest darkest injury.

Fair enough. There have been plenty of players in the $9m range and if we're considering % of cap relative to now, many more players would be on that list. It's a silly benchmark.

 

[bcv]

OMGF!! Vachon has gifted all of us maroons with 'extra knowledge'. Piss off. Every single poster here understands the idea of %cap hit based upon the current year's cap hit.

Obviously not as some people are still saying no one should make more than Suzuki's salary.