HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #87: 2024 Season Finale

[The Great Weal]

WHAT? LOL

You claimed that I was willing to pay P-L Dubois 8M a year...

And as proof of this, you found a post where I said I would be willing to trade a 1st round pick but not much more, to acquire him.

What are you talking about lol

Bringing up the date argument completely blew up in your face, that was embarrassing. You said that before his career year which means if anything, your opinion should be amplified in terms of wanting PLD.

The contract he got shouldn't have been a jaw dropping surprise, especially since PLD at the time had 3 60 point seasons while Necas had one (and one on pace). And by your own criteria of Necas, not willing to give him the extra 500k shouldn't make or break this, then the exact same should be said for PLD who got 1 million more than the projected range.

It sure is

Yeah you should try it for once instead of posting GIFs nonstop

 

[417]

Bringing up the date argument completely blew up in your face, that was embarrassing. You said that before his career year which means if anything, your opinion should be amplified in terms of wanting PLD.

Bringing up the date, that was clear for anyone to see blew up in my face?

Nah, you're on bathsalts...i'm convinced.

The contract he got shouldn't have been a jaw dropping surprise, especially since PLD at the time had 3 60 point seasons while Necas had one (and one on pace). And by your own criteria of Necas, not willing to give him the extra 500k shouldn't make or break this, then the exact same should be said for PLD who got 1 million more than the projected range.

At the time I made that post, P-L Dubois was making 6M a year...the Habs didn't HAVE to give him an extension when they would have acquired him then.

So this idea that I would have been willing to pay him 8M/yr, when they didn't even have too, before he even showed anything in a Habs jersey is just the bathsalts kicking in and stroking your imagination.

It allows you to stand behind YOUR ridiculous claim you made about me, completely umprompted, which I've already showed to be completely false.

Instead of just dropping it or just moving on, you've decided to double down on this wild bathsalt induced fantasy of yours.

I got time man lol

Yeah you should try it for once instead of posting GIFs nonstop

 

[417]

Yeah you should try it for once instead of posting GIFs nonstop

Real talk though...I don't even know why you're talking about P-L Dubois. It's got nothing to do with anything.

Yes, I would be willing to give up multiple assets and give a contract to Martin Necas up to 8M/yr if that's what it took with zero hesitation.

This was not and has never been the case with Dubois and no matter how you try to twist and manipulate old posts high off bathsalts to convince yourself that I did, it doesn't make it so.

Happy to continue this discussion we're having about Necas...but if you wanna talk Dubois, I suggest you take another hit and go talk to yourself in the mirror.

 

[The Great Weal]

Bringing up the date, that was clear for anyone to see blew up in my face?

Nah, you're on bathsalts...i'm convinced.

“Martin Necas should be acquired because he’s a top 6 player who fits in our age, I’m fine with overpaying by 500k if needed”.
“I wanted PLD before his career year because he’s a top 6 player who fits in our age, but didn’t want to give him the 8.5 he got which was like 1 million more than the expected raise he’d get from his previous contract”.

So a minimal overpay for Necas is okay but for PLD it’s not? Not even talking about trade value here, are you the one on bathsalts? Is there a GIF or emoji for that? Just pointing out the hypocrisy “big fella”, you could rationalize your thoughts more and point this out instead of resorting to being condescending and insulting like always.

 

[sampollock]

I am unsure of necas,
Have not watched him much
Then is just me

 

[417]

“Martin Necas should be acquired because he’s a top 6 player who fits in our age, I’m fine with overpaying by 500k if needed”.
“I wanted PLD before his career year because he’s a top 6 player who fits in our age, but didn’t want to give him the 8.5 he got which was like 1 million more than the expected raise he’d get from his previous contract”.

So a minimal overpay for Necas is okay but for PLD it’s not? Not even talking about trade value here, are you the one on bathsalts? Is there a GIF or emoji for that? Just pointing out the hypocrisy “big fella”, you could rationalize your thoughts more and point this out instead of resorting to being condescending and insulting like always.

Necas needs a new deal

Dubois DID not, any trade to acquire Dubois would have given the Habs time to evaluate what a proper salary rate would have been.

You're assuming that I think as highly of
Dubois as I do Necas, I don't.

Enough with the Dubois talk man…my god.

We’re talking about Necas, not a player who isn't even on the market, get off the pipe man.

My gosh

 

[Kimota]

Not sure the results come with the Guhle+ for Tkachuk flip. Think about how we look in the playoffs with that young D and without Guhle over the next 4 years? If our D was more mature and all in their prime, it would be a good move IMO. If Tkachuk can't win with the Sens weak D and goaltending, it's not happening with us too. If Brady came with more term, it would fit more (more time for our D to mature). Good luck trying to convince him to stay and what kind of contract he would want.

I personally would not trade Matheson+ for Zadorov. We already have our Zadorov. Xhekaj and he might be better.

This Habs roster is going nowhere until our D is all mostly in their Prime. Not even Guhle is in his prime yet. It's a range from age 22/23 (Guhle and Xhekaj) to age 19 (Reinbacher) today. Results are not coming over the next 4 years. Moving up the standings yes but we have a lot more transition years to come. Tampa didn't do anything until Hedman/Stamkos were in their late 20's and Point/Sergachev were in their early 20's.

I'm always just shooting the shit on these things but I don't see having issue with having BOTH X-Man AND Zadorov in our line-up. And it's OK if we don't win everything with Tkachuk right away, the important thing is having him. Him and Zadorov could accelerate our process. But of course I want a Tkachuk extension.

What if he's at the root of all the tension?


Matheson + for Zadorov?

Man...I don't think I've seen a quality Dman as disrespected by his own fanbase as I see Matheson is on this forum.

A guy on a sweet contract coming off a 62pt season, and they have to add, in order to add a player whose a few weeks away from free agency and isn't even a top 4 Dman?

Wild stuff, all due respect.

I really like Matheson, actually(really more than others that are always on his case). But I like Zadorov a LOT.

 

[Vachon23]

I’m starting to enter the Necas bandwagon

He could be a good fit with Slaf and Suzuki helping the zone entry and I can see a fit between Dach and Suzuki + Lindstrom/Iginla in a couple of years.

 

[417]

“Martin Necas should be acquired because he’s a top 6 player who fits in our age, I’m fine with overpaying by 500k if needed”.
“I wanted PLD before his career year because he’s a top 6 player who fits in our age, but didn’t want to give him the 8.5 he got which was like 1 million more than the expected raise he’d get from his previous contract”.

So a minimal overpay for Necas is okay but for PLD it’s not? Not even talking about trade value here, are you the one on bathsalts? Is there a GIF or emoji for that? Just pointing out the hypocrisy “big fella”, you could rationalize your thoughts more and point this out instead of resorting to being condescending and insulting like always.

HF Habs: - 2023 Roster, Schedule & Standings Thread

Not sure if you're joking or not but if we get Carlsson and Bedard, you don't trade for Dubois or give a guy like Couturier money. If by some miracle you can keep that top 6, you use the money for defense help and goaltending since your bottom 6 will essentially need to all be ELCs. Dubois...

forums.hfboards.com

Nah, i'm outta here

This is nasty, nasty work...played yourself again.

 

[Kimota]

Matheson + for UFA rights to overpay Z then? seems rich

Zadorov is actually UFA? OK Struble, then.

also no way sens trade Tkachuk now to the habs

 

[themilosh]

Nope - his analysis is based on the NHL
see article here


Completely agree - it's just a guideline and not dependent on actual prospects available. But it is a good reference when people create trade proposals only involving picks

One thing to note with NFL draft is that players are "typically" ranked with more weight added to primary positions like QB. Then there is the massive need to build both Dline and Oline as basically to seperate teams within the same organization... throw in that "rookies" can be a 21yo 4th year ncaa player ready to go into the lineup with immediate effect, and the term "BPA" loses its luster as it can mean different things for differ org needs..

Nhl puts a slight premium on C but otherwise everyone drafts on potential 3 years out.. thats why "BPA" tends to be gameplan after the top 10.

 

[The Great Weal]

get off the pipe man.

It's pretty disgusting how condescending you're being with personal attacks by claiming that I'm a bathsalt addict or whatnot because you're not explaining the difference in the scenarios I posted. It's gross that you keep continuing this but hey, do what you want.

Your new deal argument makes no sense. Did you want PLD just as a rental/2 year thing? Of course PLD needed a new deal shortly, that's a major factor to take into account. And with a career year, you should want him even moreso the next year. You even acknowledged how his age would fit with us, why would the age matter if you were strictly wanting him for something short term?

I'm trying to understand what this threshold is to give in and overpay a secondary guy like Necas but not a secondary guy like PLD? Sure, you can like Necas more but neither player are likely to be top end players on cup contenders and they are definitely closer in player tiers than they are far apart. But how do you say "I'm okay with 500k extra" for a Necas but refusing to do something similar for PLD's future deal.

Are you going to call me a crackhead now or actually acknowledge this?

 

[Heffyhoof]

Who is suggesting to pay Necas more than Suzuki?

There’s a lot of posters pulling random numbers out of their asses. $7-7.5m has been talked about before. Now all of a sudden it’s become $8.5-9m

Well then, I wonder exactly which players and posters were being mentioned in the post I was responding too. I just chose 4 of the more common names I see in the trade thread to make an example of tradeable players that could be added to the Habs that shouldn't get a higher salary than Suzuki from us.

 

[Heffyhoof]

During a recent interview on 98.5 FM with Mario Langlois, Stéphane Waite launched a controversial offer to acquire Martin Necas. He indicated he would be willing to offer the Winnipeg Jets' first-round pick (26th pick overall) as well as one of three defensemen: Lane Hutson, David Reinbacher or Logan Mailloux.

That is wildly controversial considering he's clearly intimating that Mailloux has the same value as Hutson, let alone Reinbacher. I'd squirm really hard on the Hutson add and say no firmly to the Reinbacher add.

 

[Vachon23]

Some need to understand too that the 7.8m AAV contract Suzuki sign in 2021 doesn’t have the same value then a 7.8m AAV today with the salary cap upgrade. The 9,66% of the cap is a more important data

 

[The Great Weal]

HF Habs: - 2023 Roster, Schedule & Standings Thread

Not sure if you're joking or not but if we get Carlsson and Bedard, you don't trade for Dubois or give a guy like Couturier money. If by some miracle you can keep that top 6, you use the money for defense help and goaltending since your bottom 6 will essentially need to all be ELCs. Dubois...

forums.hfboards.com

Nah, i'm outta here

This is nasty, nasty work...played yourself again.

Did you pick the wrong post? I was talking about contract structure in regard to a hypothetical lineup. HF Habs: - 2023 Roster, Schedule & Standings Thread

Not sure what the "nasty nasty work" was when my post was discussing how having 58 million for 7 forwards isn't wise.

 

[417]

It's pretty disgusting how condescending you're being with personal attacks by claiming that I'm a bathsalt addict or whatnot because you're not explaining the difference in the scenarios I posted. It's gross that you keep continuing this but hey, do what you want.

Oh this is rich...YOU came with the condescending post, you're just mad you got played.

Don't give me that, you want to shouldn't throw stones when you live in a glass house. Don't play the poor victim now. I match energy.

Your new deal argument makes no sense. Did you want PLD just as a rental/2 year thing? Of course PLD needed a new deal shortly, that's a major factor to take into account. And with a career year, you should want him even moreso the next year. You even acknowledged how his age would fit with us, why would the age matter if you were strictly wanting him for something short term?

I never talked about what I would have paid him in any new perspective deal, only YOU did that.

All I talked about was the cost of acquisition.

But again I ask.

WHAT DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH MARTIN NECAS?

I'm trying to understand what this threshold is to give in and overpay a secondary guy like Necas but not a secondary guy like PLD? Sure, you can like Necas more but neither player are likely to be top end players on cup contenders and they are definitely closer in player tiers than they are far apart. But how do you say "I'm okay with 500k extra" for a Necas but refusing to do something similar for PLD's future deal.

It ain't hard to figure out and I've explained it several times, it's not my fault you can't get off the Dubois pack.

I like Martin Necas a lot more than I ever did P-L Dubois, I was never all that interested in acquiring Dubois and I have SEVERAL posts I've made that support this.

Are you going to call me a crackhead now or actually acknowledge this?

You claimed that I would have paid 8M/yr to Dubois, then found some old posts of mine which don't actually say that, but you used to twist and interpret it the way you wanted it to be, when in reality, the only person between you and I who put the words 8M/yr and Dubois together, was YOU.

HF Habs: - 2023 Roster, Schedule & Standings Thread

Not sure if you're joking or not but if we get Carlsson and Bedard, you don't trade for Dubois or give a guy like Couturier money. If by some miracle you can keep that top 6, you use the money for defense help and goaltending since your bottom 6 will essentially need to all be ELCs. Dubois...

forums.hfboards.com

 

[Benstheman]

No doubt. Hughes probably has his fingers in a lot of options. Our offer is going to be a quantity offer though.

Canes need serious work on their back end in the next two off seasons. Jets 1st, Barron, and maybe the Avs 2nd? Do we go deeper than this?

Canes also need improvements at center after Aho. Staal is aging. Would they target one of Beck or Kapanen?

With Kapanen being a potential 3rd line center, I wouldn’t be against trading Beck in a package for a legit top 6 winger.

Beck + Jets 1st + Barron?

 

[417]

Did you pick the wrong post?I was talking about contract structure in regard to a hypothetical lineup. HF Habs: - 2023 Roster, Schedule & Standings Thread

Not sure what the "nasty nasty work" was when my post was discussing how having 58 million for 7 forwards isn't wise.

YES YOU did...I have never and you will never find any of my posts suggesting what I would have paid Dubois, yet YOU came out with your condescending tone calling me out.

And now your mad cause I found posts from you saying you would pay him 8M/yr?

This just gets better and better.

Just take my advice my man...move on from Dubois discussion, focus back on Necas.

I've tried to help you along this journey, but you refuse my help and then accuse me of being mean spirited.

SMDH.

No offense but I call complete bullshit that you wouldn't have given him that. He was a second liner and it falls exactly in line with the criteria that you're setting for Necas. He was a flawed player, the Habs cap situation wouldn't be problematic for a young former 3rd OA, and missing out over like 750k wouldn't be worth it.

HF Habs: - 2023 Roster, Schedule & Standings Thread

Not sure if you're joking or not but if we get Carlsson and Bedard, you don't trade for Dubois or give a guy like Couturier money. If by some miracle you can keep that top 6, you use the money for defense help and goaltending since your bottom 6 will essentially need to all be ELCs. Dubois...

forums.hfboards.com

2 years ago you were twerking for P-L Dubois and you have the nerve to post that?

Again, I suggest you just focus on Necas...I'm NOT the one lol

 

[BoneHutson]

Id rather target Perfetti if we are going for a soft winger. At least his offensive potential is higher and might come cheaper since he has yet to prove it. And we could sign him cheap long term (like 8x6m)

 

[417]

Some need to understand too that the 7.8m AAV contract Suzuki sign in 2021 doesn’t have the same value then a 7.8m AAV today with the salary cap upgrade. The 9,66% of the cap is a more important data

I don't know how many times I've brought this up. It's kind of relevant.

Expecting players to negotiate their contracts based Nick Suzuki's deal that was negotiated during a flat cap, when the cap is growing, is just not realistic.

 

[The Great Weal]

Oh this is rich...YOU came with the condescending post, you're just mad you got played.

Yeah man I'm absolutely fuming proving you're contradictions lol. Which is why I resorted to saying you are hooked on bathsalts nonstop and posting GIFs and emojis nonstop. Oh wait that is what you did when you "played" me with that. That post you found has me saying "PLD will COMMAND AROUND 8 million at this rate" in regards to a potential lineup? Where exactly am I twerking here? Jesus dude this is beyond pathetic. You could probably find posts of me actually wanting PLD too, but up to a certain extent in terms of contract and assets like Necas. The one you picked was a massive swing and a miss.

Here's my GIF by taking your advice in regards to your awful attempt.

Anyways, this has gotten well off topic. I'd like Necas but up to a certain extent in terms of cap hit. Got nothing else to say on the matter.

 

[Benstheman]

I don't know how many times I've brought this up. It's kind of relevant.

Expecting players to negotiate their contracts based Nick Suzuki's deal that was negotiated during a flat cap, when the cap is growing, is just not realistic.

You can’t bring Necas in and give him more than Suzuki.

I don’t think that’s logic at all.

I think 7,5M$ per is the max I’d go for him.

 

[417]

Anyways, this has gotten well off topic. I'd like Necas but up to a certain extent in terms of cap hit.

Finally off Dubois.

Yes, i'd like Necas too to a certain extend in terms of cap hit...I've maintained that since the beginning of this debate and your subsequent but temporary meltdown.

I said 6.5-7.5M/yr seems to be the sweet spot but I wouldn't walk away at 8M/yr either because that's the market for a player his age/pedigree and who you're buying up to 7 years of free agency years (assuming on an 8 year deal).

That's the cost.

For some reason, you think paying a guy a cap hit that is the equivalent of anywhere from 75th to 80th highest cap hit amongst NHL players, is outrageous.

I just think it's market price.

You can’t bring Necas in and give him more than Suzuki

I don’t think that’s logic at all.

I think 7,5M$ per is the max I’d go for him.

So you'd be willing to pay multiple assets, but 500K/yr more per year is where you draw the line?

Seems like an odd thing to stand by given that 8M today, is more like 6.8M-7M when Suzuki signed his deal.

I'd have much more reservation about the assets i'd have to trade to acquire Necas, rather than the 500K/yr it might cost more per year than Suzuki.

Regardless, I don't even think 8M/yr is what it would take to sign him, that's on the higher end and i'm just entertaining the thought, I still think in the 6.5-7.5M range is the sweet spot. But like I said, if i'm willing to pay the cost of acquisition, stopping at what amounts to 4M spread out over 8 years seems silly at that point.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

Don't think it's cute to want Montreal to acquire a player from an outside source and want to pay them less than our Captain and best player unless they are a better player. Necas, Zegras, Kakko, Laine are certainly not better and some come with potential character issues as well.

No point in emphasizing the locker room only to get someone who might be an issue and then make them the top paid player.

Exactly ! Why don't we wait for the right deal when time comes? Why trying to get players who are lockeroom headaches and then complain it didn't worked with us. Why taking that chance when we all agreed to be patient and rebuild the right way. Just wait Hughes and Gorton to make the right deal. Let them work, they have few years ahead to build brick by brick the new house.