HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #86: 2023-2024 Season

[The Great Weal]

I'd just gonna slide in here for a second and say that KK has played over 350 games in the NHL so he's pretty much what he is at this point, and that's a 0.42 ppg player.

On a funnier note, with so many people pooping on Dvo, understandably so for how and why he was acquired, so I'm not judging. But Dvo is a very good defensive center with a career 0.48 ppg average.

So why exactly do so many want KK back when he obviously couldn't get out of town fast enough, slapped everyone in the face with his signing bonus, and he's not even as good at offence or defence than the "crappy" guy Habs got to replace him?

The thing is that Dvorak isn’t producing like how he did in Arizona before he got traded.

 

[Runner77]

I am more in favour of trading Matheson. While his value is high. But one of him or Savard should be moved for young asset to help us going forward. As Harris likely not get back in lineup and Wifi is stuck Laval to get minutes. We too deep on defense. Wasting a lot of development time.

Whichever of our redundant and disposables fetch the highest returns should simply be moved without hesitation. Hughes can dangle all he wants but ultimately, the market will speak. He may not like what he hears for certain players but cap space toward the summer is also valuable so it’s not always about getting a sizeable return.

 

[Sterling Archer]

The thing is that Dvorak isn’t producing like how he did in Arizona before he got traded.

His production this year has fallen a bit but not much. He also plays a more defensive specialist role role in Montreal now than he did in Arizona where he was a 2nd line center, so it can also be a function of that as well. I'm not here to defend Dvo, just to say it's not a huge difference between the two as many thought it would be and especially that KK has regressed back to his mean production. It's a big nothing burger that some feel is a massive difference when the reality shows it's not anything meaningful anyways.

 

[DAChampion]

People dunked too early with KKs early season point per game pace

You're right.

 

[JoelWarlord]

I really really hope Monahan ends up traded. A Monahan extension has "plays under 100 total games of a 5x5.25M deal" written all over it. I don't mind the idea of signing a player of that archetype, a late 20s vet with a well rounded game who's still got some juice would be a nice piece to add as part of the supporting cast but Monahan specifically is just not a guy I want them investing in.

The other guys I'm less worried about, I'd rather we trade Savard/Dvorak this year if they have value but I don't really mind if they just wait until next year when they're rentals. Hoping we move a goalie after the Christmas roster freeze as well.

 

[sampollock]

You're right.

Yup KK is so average it is unreal. what a waste of a top pick

 

[BLONG7]

Yup KK is so average it is unreal. what a waste of a top pick

Bergevin/Timmins.....................were supposed to show him their biceps!!

So many mistakes made at the draft, year over year........

 

[Captain Mountain]

The thing is that Dvorak isn’t producing like how he did in Arizona before he got traded.

Maybe not this season, but Dvorak's production here and in Arizona is pretty much the same. He's just not very good.

 

[Sterling Archer]

Maybe not this season, but Dvorak's production here and in Arizona is pretty much the same. He's just not very good.

I don’t have a problem with him as a 3rd line center and on the PK. He’s serviceable as that imo.

 

[sampollock]

Bergevin/Timmins.....................were supposed to show him their biceps!!

So many mistakes made at the draft, year over year........

STILL makes me mad.. remember sitting sipping a rye and hearing KK's name... when BT was on the board... what a huge let down

 

[salbutera]

The thing is that Dvorak isn’t producing like how he did in Arizona before he got traded.

Actually he has produced at same PPG pace till this year… so far

Dvorak has been injured far more as a Hab

 

[Runner77]

STILL makes me mad.. remember sitting sipping a rye and hearing KK's name... when BT was on the board... what a huge let down

Sounds like you could use a couple more ryes to forget the whole thing happened.

 

[The Great Weal]

Maybe not this season, but Dvorak's production here and in Arizona is pretty much the same. He's just not very good.

Actually he has produced at same PPG pace till this year… so far

Dvorak has been injured far more as a Hab

He was much more of a goal scoring threat

 

[Kimota]

Good point. It’s tough to figure out what to do, especially when the organization seems to have no idea what it is trying to do. Hughes weakened the team over summer and is seemingly not interested in shoring it up nor weakening it now. What to do?

If we had the Monathan from a year ago, there would no dilema with me, I would keep him cause he seemed to bring up the best in eveybody. He was the perfect good vet in the style of Staal that does not take too much space and help the young guys. But now I'm not sure.

 

[Runner77]

If we had the Monathan from a year ago, there would no dilema with me, I would keep him cause he seemed to bring up the best in eveybody. He was the perfect good vet in the style of Staal that does not take too much space and help the young guys. But now I'm not sure.

The Monahan from a year ago was a mirage. He started off strong just like this season.

The difference is that we’re seeing him fade now as he’s going deeper into the season.

Monahan last season is only remembered for his good play because injuries prevented him from showing you his downside. I bet he would have faded just as badly at some point had he played out the rest of last season.

He remains a broken player with an exquisite IQ, which will always be held back from fully flourishing.

 

[Bottle Rocket]

The Monahan from a year ago was a mirage. He started off strong just like this season.

The difference is that we’re seeing him fade now as he’s going deeper into the season.

Monahan last season is only remembered for his good play because injuries prevented him from showing you his downside. I bet he would have faded just as badly at some point had he played out the rest of last season.

He remains a broken player with an exquisite IQ, which will always be held back from fully flourishing.

So, what are we saying? A 2nd at the deadline?

 

[calder candidate]

I'd just gonna slide in here for a second and say that KK has played over 350 games in the NHL so he's pretty much what he is at this point, and that's a 0.42 ppg player.

On a funnier note, with so many people pooping on Dvo, understandably so for how and why he was acquired, so I'm not judging. But Dvo is a very good defensive center with a career 0.48 ppg average.

So why exactly do so many want KK back when he obviously couldn't get out of town fast enough, slapped everyone in the face with his signing bonus, and he's not even as good at offence or defence than the "crappy" guy Habs got to replace him?

I agree that KK did basically burn all the bridges on is way out.
The rational side will say
The upside is now has to be consider limited, he might be a winger, faceoff like everything else is avg. and currently over paid long term…

The optimists will say
He is bigger and younger at 23 he is technically just entering is prime, he is lock up long term (5 years) so only paying for prime year at worst he is a middle 6 and even if he is over paid in 2-3 year it could be a better deal. He might be a winger.
Age fit rebuild time line.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

Given our non-playoff team stats, it's a matter of time before the wheels fall off and the goalies stop stealing points. I'd rather sell Monahan and finish this year's tank. Hughes didn't put this team in a position to succeed over last off-season, their overperformance on the standings table is fine but the team itself is not any better. The higher draft pick is more attractive right now.

Selling Savard would be a big move too, but I feel like Hughes would be loathed to trade a respected veteran, cup winner, and QC player. I feel like Hughes is a lot like Bergevin, unaware and incapable of picking a lane. It's partly circumstantial: Begevin had Price, he could never tank with such a stud carrying the heavy load and Hughes has a team that's overperforming on the standings table and he feel hesitant to take out the team's knees while they're playing with morale.. Lack of big picture awareness also dictated the inane sequence of the 1OA and 5OA picks and how they were "developed".

Selling Monahan, Allen, and Savard asap would be a bold move to protect the team's greater interests. If they were performing better I'd say Go For The Playoffs but they're really not. 87 GF in 32 GP (2.7 gpg) is hopelessly bad for a playoff series when you don't have Carey Price backstopping you.

I am not against moving Monahan but only at the right price.

I would argue that Hughes is the absolute opposite of MB in almost every way as he is a much more intelligent and cerebral human being and has demonstrated a willingness to break institutional archetypes that MB was enslaved by and Hughes operates solely from reason and objective analysis whereas MB was often betrayed by his ego and emotions. I am not even a MB hater as I think he has forgot more about hockey than most of his haters will ever learn but his old school mindset combined with his ego/emotions could and did get him in trouble. I appreciate the fact that he believed in a way to build a team that was playoff centric but might struggle to get there and was proven to be correct by going to the finals. Hughes simply see's dominoes that are much further away than MB ever could and this franchise will ultimately be better off for it.

 

[Paddy17]

I'd do Allen + one of Norlinder/Trudeau/Farrel for Peyton Krebs

Krebs is not very good.
Farrel alone can be better than Krebs.

 

[BoneHutson]

My issue with this is always that you end up with a too young squad who don't know how to win and crumble under pressure. We have seen it happen with Leafs, Oilers and many others.

And what does a retires Savard and a 33 yo Monahan (probably on a bad contract by that time) would bring to a contending team? Theyve got enough leadership with their young guys, and should cash in on guys like Matheson, Monahan, Savard and Anderson before they lose all value and/or are rendered pratically useless due to their age in a couple years

 

[ReHabs]

I am not against moving Monahan but only at the right price.

I would argue that Hughes is the absolute opposite of MB in almost every way as he is a much more intelligent and cerebral human being and has demonstrated a willingness to break institutional archetypes that MB was enslaved by and Hughes operates solely from reason and objective analysis whereas MB was often betrayed by his ego and emotions. I am not even a MB hater as I think he has forgot more about hockey than most of his haters will ever learn but his old school mindset combined with his ego/emotions could and did get him in trouble. I appreciate the fact that he believed in a way to build a team that was playoff centric but might struggle to get there and was proven to be correct by going to the finals. Hughes simply see's dominoes that are much further away than MB ever could and this franchise will ultimately be better off for it.

I don’t know when you got such a good impression of Kent Hughes and his alleged intelligence. To be honest your text reads a bit like sarcasm.

I don’t know a thing about Kent Hughes at this time. It feels to me he’s very self confident. That’s about it. Bergevin was self-confident too.

 

[Rapala]

I don’t have a problem with him as a 3rd line center and on the PK. He’s serviceable as that imo.

I do. Not to mention our PK is or almost is the worst in the league for a number of seasons running now and Dvorak is a big part of that. It really shouldn't be too hard to find an upgrade on him. Heck maybe even Owen Beck as early as next season. Not a chance in hell that HuGo doesn't upgrade when it's available and affordable for any of our supposed role players.

 

[HuGort]

Anderson struggled early in season coming back from his injury. But looks back to his old self lately. Would Habs move him? He does add toughness.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

And what does a retires Savard and a 33 yo Monahan (probably on a bad contract by that time) would bring to a contending team? Theyve got enough leadership with their young guys, and should cash in on guys like Matheson, Monahan, Savard and Anderson before they lose all value and/or are rendered pratically useless due to their age in a couple years

You just can't do that as has been proven time and time again. Teams that don't keep a stabilizing veteran leadership group usually end up in a perpetual rebuild that struggles to gain traction. Just watch last night's game where they show Struble sitting between Matheson and Savard while they are communicating about in game adjustments. This stuff is priceless and can only be obtained by having vets show the kids by example how to be true pros on and off of the ice. Coaching staffs can preach all they want but it means so much more to see older established vets working every moment of every day to continue to strive to be better.

Allen and Savard need to be moved, especially Allen as his situation has become acute with the logjam in net and with so many young D coming up Savard will have to be moved sooner than later as Reinbacher's arrival is just around the corner.

Hughes has some tough decisions to make as there is no way he moves both of Savard and Matheson imo but with Xhekaj, Struble and Harris already fighting over the final remaining LD spot and Hutson and Engstrom on the horizon something significant has to happen and relatively soon.

 

[ReHabs]

Anderson struggled early in season coming back from his injury. But looks back to his old self lately. Would Habs move him? He does add toughness.

He has a hot streak or two every year. If the Habs can unload him, it would be good.