HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #86: 2023-2024 Season

[RealityBytes]

It’s ridiculous but it’s based on two things:

1. Most fans on the main boards evaluate entirely on offensive stats and add no context

2. Most fans on the main board hate the Habs and feel better about themselves when they belittle and devalue the Habs. It’s sad and it makes it not worth reading.

LOL ... the main board hates the Habs, the Habs board hates the Leafs, the Leafs board hates Tampa Bay, the Oilers board hates Calgary, Calgary hates the Oilers, ... every board hates something ... and all boards hate Bettman.

 

[The Great Weal]

It's always comical to read the Trade Rumours boards.

Everybody on the Habs sucks and our players would barely get a 4th rounder in a trade, maybe a 3rd if they're lucky; yet, there's somehow 10 other teams doing worse in the standings.

At some point, you'd think people would wise up, and realize how silly their evaluations are.

Main board thinks that we believe every vet we have is worth a 1st rounder. I feel like we only say that during the highs of a player. For instance, Monahan last year was playing superb hockey so we all thought he could potentially get a 1st if he keeps it up then went down with an injury long term with not date on when he was back so we all figured he wouldn't but main board seems to think we still believed he would. Same thing with Edmundson, guy really declined hard and was injury prone since our finals run so yes we figured he wouldn't net a 1st.

 

[Scriptor]

So, when do the "Anderson to" rumours start now that he scored two goals against an actual G against the Isles tonight!?

 

[nhlfan9191]

LOL ... the main board hates the Habs, the Habs board hates the Leafs, the Leafs board hates Tampa Bay, the Oilers board hates Calgary, Calgary hates the Oilers, ... every board hates something ... and all boards hate Bettman.

The main board hates us and the Leafs because we have larger fanbases and with that comes a higher number of posters that hang out there saying dumb things that will all get labelled under.

 

[Guy Larose]

GM Verbeek was in MTL tonight.

 

[HuGort]

I get why you all feel have to wait to trade like a Savard, better value at the deadline.

But if you remember, Kent moved Toffoli early in the year ..
Kent may not think us all

I thought he could have got more for Toffoli. He is gritty 30 goals on reasonable contract with control

 

[ReHabs]

Put yourself in the shoes of a contending team. Which Habs player would you want?

Savard, Monahan… anyone else?

 

[26Mats]

Put yourself in the shoes of a contending team. Which Habs player would you want?

Savard, Monahan… anyone else?

Any contending team would want those players. But how much are they willing to give up to get them?

And to answer your question, any player that is useful a contending team would want, even as a 7th d or 13th forward, if they can fit them under the cap. Roster sizes expand after the trade deadline.

So other players contenders would want: Matheson, Kovacevic, Lindstrom, Harris, Pearson (50% retained), Anderson (50% retained), Dvo (50% retained), Allen (50% retained), possibly Armia @ 50% retained, Evans. But not sure we'll want to move these players at the value we'll get back, for what we'd be giving up and/or for what we'd have to retain.

I'm hoping we move Savard, Kovacevic, Lindstrom, and Harris for good picks.

 

[SlyIslands]

Main board thinks that we believe every vet we have is worth a 1st rounder. I feel like we only say that during the highs of a player. For instance, Monahan last year was playing superb hockey so we all thought he could potentially get a 1st if he keeps it up then went down with an injury long term with not date on when he was back so we all figured he wouldn't but main board seems to think we still believed he would. Same thing with Edmundson, guy really declined hard and was injury prone since our finals run so yes we figured he wouldn't net a 1st.

Main board overvalue picks, so many people called the Lafferty trade bad like a 5th rounder would net you a 1st line player. 5th rounder will get you an AHL player 90% of the time, a 5th for a 3rd or 4th line player is good value. See the Goodrow trade for TB, they traded a 1st but also got a 3rd back. Well that 3rd round pick is now viewed as a better prospect then that 1st round pick (Maxim Groshev vs Ozzy Wiesblatt)

 

[ReHabs]

Any contending team would want those players. But how much are they willing to give up to get them?

And to answer your question, any player that is useful a contending team would want, even as a 7th d or 13th forward, if they can fit them under the cap. Roster sizes expand after the trade deadline.

So other players contenders would want: Matheson, Kovacevic, Lindstrom, Harris, Pearson (50% retained), Anderson (50% retained), Dvo (50% retained), Allen (50% retained), possibly Armia @ 50% retained, Evans. But not sure we'll want to move these players at the value we'll get back, for what we'd be giving up and/or for what we'd have to retain.

I'm hoping we move Savard, Kovacevic, Lindstrom, and Harris for good picks.

Most teams don’t want to upend their dynamic and replace morale-boosting role players just to swap bottom-liner players.

Acquiring depth I understand, but usually depth meant to be middle-roster players who can step up in a pinch or pot the random goals… which goes back to my original question. After consulting your list, I see the following:

Monahan (skilled, intangibles, brittle) — conditional 1st at best.
Savard (Cup winner, tough, big, not a producer) — can get a 1st+ in case there is a bidding war
Matheson (Jeff Petry clone, dynamic but can’t be a D1 or D2) — can definitely get a haul
Kovacevic (valuable due to combo of cap hit, size, and reach) — I can see a Hagel-like return
Pearson (depth player) — conditional 2nd round pick at best?


Dvorak, Allen, and Armia at 50% retained might have a market but they have to show the goods a whole lot from now till then.

Andersson and Harris, I don’t really see a market.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

Most teams don’t want to upend their dynamic and replace morale-boosting role players just to swap bottom-liner players.

Acquiring depth I understand, but usually depth meant to be middle-roster players who can step up in a pinch or pot the random goals… which goes back to my original question. After consulting your list, I see the following:

Monahan (skilled, intangibles, brittle) — conditional 1st at best.
Savard (Cup winner, tough, big, not a producer) — can get a 1st+ in case there is a bidding war
Matheson (Jeff Petry clone, dynamic but can’t be a D1 or D2) — can definitely get a haul
Kovacevic (valuable due to combo of cap hit, size, and reach) — I can see a Hagel-like return
Pearson (depth player) — conditional 2nd round pick at best?


Dvorak, Allen, and Armia at 50% retained might have a market but they have to show the goods a whole lot from now till then.

Andersson and Harris, I don’t really see a market.

Agree on most of that. Anderson might be marketable if he continues at a reasonable pace now that he is broken his slump. It of course will require retention to move him. If they use the retention spot for him they could take cap dumps back if they need to offset cap in a Savard or Monahan trade.

All of this will depend on how many teams think they have a shot at the deadline. There is no real power house team so hopefully there are 12+ teams that think they have a chance. Of course there are also GM's that might feel they need at least make the playoffs to keep their job even if they don't believe they can win it all.

 

[WinterLion]

Put yourself in the shoes of a contending team. Which Habs player would you want?

Savard, Monahan… anyone else?

For a playoff run and if I'm tight to the cap I'd be all in on Kovacevic... great contract.

Pearson for sure but only at the deadline with retention.

Allen for sure as a 2nd G... have you seen the G situations around the league? May need to take back some cap.

 

[26Mats]

Most teams don’t want to upend their dynamic and replace morale-boosting role players just to swap bottom-liner players.

Acquiring depth I understand, but usually depth meant to be middle-roster players who can step up in a pinch or pot the random goals… which goes back to my original question. After consulting your list, I see the following:

Monahan (skilled, intangibles, brittle) — conditional 1st at best.
Savard (Cup winner, tough, big, not a producer) — can get a 1st+ in case there is a bidding war
Matheson (Jeff Petry clone, dynamic but can’t be a D1 or D2) — can definitely get a haul
Kovacevic (valuable due to combo of cap hit, size, and reach) — I can see a Hagel-like return
Pearson (depth player) — conditional 2nd round pick at best?


Dvorak, Allen, and Armia at 50% retained might have a market but they have to show the goods a whole lot from now till then.

Andersson and Harris, I don’t really see a market.

There is the usual and then there are exceptions.

Brandon freakin Davidson was traded for a 3rd round pick. And he sucked. I think Lindstrom is easily better than him. So by the exception cases, Lindstrom could be traded for a 3rd.

I would hope for at best a Kulak like return for Kovacevic. But that's my dream, not what I think we have the highest probability of getting for him.

Given Pearson's production and that we'll likely use our last retention spot on another player, I think Pearson only gets somewhere between a 5th and a 7th, if anything.

Would be sweet if Matheson were our leading scorer, or close to it, come TDL. I think there would be serious offers.

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

Put yourself in the shoes of a contending team. Which Habs player would you want?

Savard, Monahan… anyone else?

3rd line centre for Monahan would be great. He's very good on faceoffs, can score and play. He is slow and not physical which is good, but if your team needs some depth, he'd be perfect.

Savard you could acquire as a 3rd pairing dman, who could step up and play as a 2nd pairing for a game, or two, but wouldn't want him for another year as a contender unless there's 50%, or more retained.

Thinking he'd get a 1st seems pretty ridiculous. Unless they trade him at this deadline and 50% retained.

 

[JRichard]

NHL league avg is presently .892

?
14 goalies played 20 + games: only 3 are under .900 Georgiev!, Skinner (obvious), Johansson (Vasilevsky out)
17 goalies played 15-19: 5 are under .900

Goalies who play are way over .900

Backups?
10 -14 games: 14 out of 24 under .900
5-9 games: 6 out of 13 under .900

All goalies? 80 played. 40th is at .901

got to explain that .892…

3rd line centre for Monahan would be great. He's very good on faceoffs, can score and play. He is slow and not physical which is good, but if your team needs some depth, he'd be perfect.

Savard you could acquire as a 3rd pairing dman, who could step up and play as a 2nd pairing for a game, or two, but wouldn't want him for another year as a contender unless there's 50%, or more retained.

Thinking he'd get a 1st seems pretty ridiculous. Unless they trade him at this deadline and 50% retained.

Getting a 3rd liner when Monahan plays 2nd line
Getting a 3rd pair when Savard plays 1st pair

i dont see why.

 

[salbutera]

?
14 goalies played 20 + games: only 3 are under .900 Georgiev!, Skinner (obvious), Johansson (Vasilevsky out)
17 goalies played 15-19: 5 are under .900

Goalies who play are way over .900

Backups?
10 -14 games: 14 out of 24 under .900
5-9 games: 6 out of 13 under .900

All goalies? 80 played. 40th is at .901

got to explain that .892…

Friedman & Marek on podcast talked about how 10-years ago league avg was .912, as of last weekend was .892 and orgs have now drawn the line at .900 as being above avg

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

?
14 goalies played 20 + games: only 3 are under .900 Georgiev!, Skinner (obvious), Johansson (Vasilevsky out)
17 goalies played 15-19: 5 are under .900

Goalies who play are way over .900

Backups?
10 -14 games: 14 out of 24 under .900
5-9 games: 6 out of 13 under .900

All goalies? 80 played. 40th is at .901

got to explain that .892…


Getting a 3rd liner when Monahan plays 2nd line
Getting a 3rd pair when Savard plays 1st pair

i dont see why.

That's if I was GM of a good team I'd acquire them for.

Playing 2nd line on a shitty team is 3rd line on a good team.

Savard isn't a 1st pairing dman. Not fully trusting him as a 2nd pairing dman if I want my team to win.

 

[HuGort]

Friedman & Marek on podcast talked about how 10-years ago league avg was .912, as of last weekend was .892 and orgs have now drawn the line at .900 as being above avg

They say why such a change? That's a drastic difference

 

[Whalers Fan]

Getting a 3rd liner when Monahan plays 2nd line
Getting a 3rd pair when Savard plays 1st pair

i dont see why.

Being a 2nd liner forward or 1st pair defenseman on a bottom team does not make that player the same on a contender.

 

[Deus ex machina]

They say why such a change? That's a drastic difference

Equipment size mostly.
The league is doing everything they can to increase the number of goals.

It's just normal that goalies' stats are going down.

 

[JRichard]

Friedman & Marek on podcast talked about how 10-years ago league avg was .912, as of last weekend was .892 and orgs have now drawn the line at .900 as being above avg

Well they were wrong… 40th goalie today is at .901
.892 is 61st best (out of 82), not the average.

people listen to podcasts or some internet cheap site like its gospel. Tony Marinaro has a podcast…

 

[BoneHutson]

There is the usual and then there are exceptions.

Brandon freakin Davidson was traded for a 3rd round pick. And he sucked. I think Lindstrom is easily better than him. So by the exception cases, Lindstrom could be traded for a 3rd.

I would hope for at best a Kulak like return for Kovacevic. But that's my dream, not what I think we have the highest probability of getting for him.

Given Pearson's production and that we'll likely use our last retention spot on another player, I think Pearson only gets somewhere between a 5th and a 7th, if anything.

Would be sweet if Matheson were our leading scorer, or close to it, come TDL. I think there would be serious offers.

If we could get a prospect like Leonard for Matheson (would be a nice fit in WAS), it would set our offense (considering a top 8 pick this year). Maybe even add a Monahan (as well as taking on Mantha).

 

[JRichard]

Last year average goalie .903
2 yrs ago average goalie .902

now .901

Looks pretty stable to me. Unless you want to pump up your guy vs a fake league average of .892, not sure why you fight the numbers.

 

[McGees]

What are Ducks lacking (everything obviously) that Verbeek was in town?

 

[Miller Time]

What are Ducks lacking (everything obviously) that Verbeek was in town?

Hopefully some discussions are taking place around Zegras, and Hughes' offer is lower than what he wants so he wanted to get his eyes on what's being offered to see if he can be convinced...

Anderson, Ylonen, Dvorak, Evans, Savard, Kovacevic... Some kind of package from those pieces + flames 1st & ?