HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #86: 2023-2024 Season

[Benstheman]

MTL does not have much to offer though. Also Zegras needs to improve his overall game, he seems more like a highlight reel kind of guy than a key piece to a cup winner

I'd still go for it. Though i wouldn't trade one of our key pieces for him. Barron/Mailloux + Calgary's 1st??

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

You're not wrong, I just don't understand the logic of preferring this player in such a forward-heavy draft (which was also said to be strong talent-wise... obviously time will tell).

Can't go back and can't re-write history, but as of right now I don't get it and am not any closer to getting it than I was the day it happened.

You take the best player. It doesn't matter what position they play.

 

[RationalExpectations]

Habs might be bottom 7/8 in the league, but they are in a group of about 10 teams fighting for a playoff spots where a few wins/loses are enough to get into/lose a wildcard. It's a real carrousel in there.

And those teams are all mostly in the Habs division, so lots of 4 pts games coming.
And those players who should be traded haven't really been keeping the team afloat outside maybe Monahan.

I can see Allen, Pearson (coming back in like 2 weeks) and Kovacevic being traded at the deadline and that won't affect the line-up much.

Monahan will hurt more because the Habs have lost two NHL centers for the season already, but Newhook should come back around the deadline and can probably take 3rd line center duties.

Habs have been lucky until now. They are :
31st in regulation wins (8)
27th in GF /GP
26th in GA /GP
22nd in PP% (amazingly)
28th in PK%
27th in shots for per game
29th in shots againt per games

I really don t see them lasting until TDL except if Montembault manages a 0.95 until then.

 

[HuGort]

I'd prefer Wifi +, and not Guhle

I didn't want to move Wifi. Struble is found money to me. So, I can move Guhle.

Maybe offer Barron and Flames 1st for Zegras instead?

 

[RationalExpectations]

I didn't want to move Wifi. Struble is found money to me. So, I can move Guhle.

Maybe offer Barron and Flames 1st for Zegras instead?

They already have Barron : he is called Luneau, very similar players. They have best Dman in OHL WHL QMJHL and you are trying to sell them on a new Dman

 

[SwiftyHab]

There's a reason why Ducks want to trade him, he's a heavily flawed player.

Maybe Anaheim is a heavily flawed team?

 

[The Great Weal]

Maybe Anaheim is a heavily flawed team?

Doesn't help when Zegras is soft as baby shit, has zero compete, and doesn't care defensively.

 

[HomaridII]

I'd still go for it. Though i wouldn't trade one of our key pieces for him. Barron/Mailloux + Calgary's 1st??

Anaheim doesn't need more D. They have Gudas and Fowler for 3 more seasons. The have Mintyukov. They love Zellweger and Luneau and have 3-4 more already in their roster like Lacombe and others.

Even while getting Gauthier, they have Carlsson and Mctavish at center and now Gauthier/Zegras on the wing. They still 1-2 wings short in there top 6. Literally they have 1 winger in their top 10-12 prospects and its Gauthier.

I would analyze they need goaltending prospects and winger, perhaps a veteran winger (26-28) and some winger prospects.

Edit: I did not even mention Hinds, yet another D prospect.

 

[BenchBrawl]

If they passed on Michkov for off-ice related reasons, they sure as hell better not bring in another questionable locker room presence with much less talent than the Russian Maestro.

They made their choice of prioritizing locker room sanity, so be it. Go all the way. Gauthier is a big no no. What he did is completely unacceptable, and I don't buy that Tortorella is a bad person. If he was, we'd know it with all the people being called out. Torts is harsh and old school, but that's not being bad. He looks like a good father figure from a distance imo.

 

[Benstheman]

Anaheim doesn't need more D. They have Gudas and Fowler for 3 more seasons. The have Mintyukov. They love Zellweger and Luneau and have 3-4 more already in their roster like Lacombe and others.

Even while getting Gauthier, they have Carlsson and Mctavish at center and now Gauthier/Zegras on the wing. They still 1-2 wings short in there top 6. Literally they have 1 winger in their top 10-12 prospects and its Gauthier.

I would analyze they need goaltending prospects and winger, perhaps a veteran winger (26-28) and some winger prospects.

Edit: I did not even mention Hinds, yet another D prospect.

But they already have that in Zegras...

So if he is available, it's because he wants to leave or Verbeek doesn't like him?

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

If they passed on Michkov for off-ice related reasons, they sure as hell better not bring in another questionable locker room presence with much less talent than the Russian Maestro.

They made their choice of prioritizing locker room sanity, so be it. Go all the way. Gauthier is a big no no. What he did is completely unacceptable, and I don't buy that Tortorella is a bad person. If he was, we'd know it with all the people being called out. Torts is harsh and old school, but that's not being bad. He looks like a good father figure from a distance imo.

Is this a joke? Zegras is more talented than the Russian waste. Whether he is willing to apply that tant is the question.

 

[HomaridII]

But they already have that in Zegras...

So if he is available, it's because he wants to leave or Verbeek doesn't like him?

Zegras is 100% not Verbeek's type of player.

I am not saying he is available, but if you track the Verbeek moves since he became GM they are diametrically opposite of Zegras.

Zegras is soft and plays soft, and is a black hole defensively. 2022 Caufield is a Selke winner compared to Zegras (I cite 2022 because he has improved a lot). His compete defensively is zero.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

Anaheim doesn't need more D. They have Gudas and Fowler for 3 more seasons. The have Mintyukov. They love Zellweger and Luneau and have 3-4 more already in their roster like Lacombe and others.

Even while getting Gauthier, they have Carlsson and Mctavish at center and now Gauthier/Zegras on the wing. They still 1-2 wings short in there top 6. Literally they have 1 winger in their top 10-12 prospects and its Gauthier.

I would analyze they need goaltending prospects and winger, perhaps a veteran winger (26-28) and some winger prospects.

Edit: I did not even mention Hinds, yet another D prospect.

I would expect them to get rid of Fowler and Gudas before their contacts are up.

 

[26Mats]

Habs might be bottom 7/8 in the league, but they are in a group of about 10 teams fighting for a playoff spots where a few wins/loses are enough to get into/lose a wildcard. It's a real carrousel in there.

And those teams are all mostly in the Habs division, so lots of 4 pts games coming.
And those players who should be traded haven't really been keeping the team afloat outside maybe Monahan.

I can see Allen, Pearson (coming back in like 2 weeks) and Kovacevic being traded at the deadline and that won't affect the line-up much.

Monahan will hurt more because the Habs have lost two NHL centers for the season already, but Newhook should come back around the deadline and can probably take 3rd line center duties.

Savard is a key piece that I hope is moved if a good offer comes in.

 

[StCaufield]

Really hope we never get Zegras

 

[Captain Mountain]

Well, that's what surrounding talent is. The problem is we don't have talent yet. Horse first. Then Cart. I think it would have gone a lot more quickly if we hadn't been so stubborn about actually going full rebuild and stopping with the half-ass bullshit.

Instead, we had to have Coach Bombay and his merry band of AHLers skating through a wall for him and relying on goaltending to have us overachieve in a pivotal draft year while they played Won't Back Down in the locker room.

Does full rebuild = tear-down rebuild? Because that's not really the same thing.

Montreal is a bad team. They were a bad team in 2022, bad team in 2023 and are a bad team now. Their record was the worst in 2022, they had the 5th worst record in 2023 and didn't get lottery luck, but the biggest reasons there was separation between them and the bottom 4 teams was down to the randomness of hockey (San Jose probably deserved more points for instance and Montreal was bottom 1 to 4 in most team predictive stats). They've been boosted by goaltending and incredible scoring distribution (they have the 4th worst goal differential in the NHL), but could easily end up 5th worst.

Unfortunately, when it comes to lottery luck you need to be lucky both when you're bad and how you do in the draft lottery. And Montreal tearing down and being awful doesn't mean they'd finish worse than they have. Chicago had 11.5% odds for Bedard - Montreal had 8.5% odds. If Montreal wins that lottery (picking 1st two years in a row), precisely no one would be arguing about them half-assing it. And up until they went on their run, Montreal had better than 8.5% odds with Florida's pick.

Right now it is one of the top 10 lines in hockey measured by all the advanced stats.

They are around 60% GF which is elite for a line.

1) Its xGF%, not GF%. They're at 50% GF%
2) xGF% is one advanced stat, not all of them - stats, whether we want to call them advanced or not, don't work that way
3) They're actually 18th in xGF% among lines with 100+ minutes together right now, not 10th.

Its still fair to say that Caufield-Suzuki-Slafkovsky has been one of the better lines in hockey.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

Really hope we never get Zegras

Zegras is a great talent. HuGo will know if has the character to be a winner.

 

[Habs 4 Life]

I didn't want to move Wifi. Struble is found money to me. So, I can move Guhle.

Maybe offer Barron and Flames 1st for Zegras instead?

Not sure, that Flames pick can end up being very very high looking at that roster

 

[Kosseca]

Zegras is on of those player that will me worth more to his current team then the one trying to get him. One will see the huge potential, the other the flaws.

The question is can he be coach or manage by piers? if the answer is no, then I dont think you can trade for him. If yes to one of these, then I would consider depending on the price, but I doubt there is a match here. they dont need D, and mtl does not have F to offer.

 

[morhilane]

Savard is a key piece that I hope is moved if a good offer comes in.

He won't, the young RDs aren't ready to eat his minutes and Matheson isn't the guy you want as the only vet D on a green defense.

I actually expect Matheson to be traded before Savard is.

 

[Kosseca]

He won't, the young RDs aren't ready to eat his minutes and Matheson isn't the guy you want as the only vet D on a green defense.

I actually expect Matheson to be traded before Savard is.

If we had another D that can push the pace from the back end and play PP, I would agree but this is not the case right now.

 

[DAChampion]

Look at the last cup winners since the salary cap era, and MOST of them have won by tanking or getting top end picks. Others have done it, like Vegas, St.Louis and Boston....but that's not thet majority.

Yes but the lottery rules changed in 2015, so the era of tankdynasties should be over.

 

[Wats]

A few of the comments quoted from my interaction with @Whitesnake (and btw this isn't meant to call out WS, just to highlight that the discussion i'm having around him was/is specifically about him arguing that it's about exclusively tanking)

"The only way you can get on top are with superior picks."

"Look at the last cup winners since the salary cap era, and MOST of them have won by tanking or getting top end picks."

So yes, people are arguing that it's exclusively about tanking since it's the very discussion i'm having lol. If it's not with WS, I've seen it mentioned here several times over the years or on twitter.

It's focusing on one aspect and ignoring all the other contributing factors.

I think you are reading into these quotes too closely and assuming ppl mean that's the only thing to do. Those quotes don't say to ignore drafting better and developing better or making good trades. They just mention you need to get a superstar tank pick to win, doesn't mean rest of the steps can be ignored.

Without Ovechkin, Stamkos/Hedman, Kane/Toews, Crosby/Malkin, etc those teams who made all those great supporting moves don't win cups. It's also unlikely these teams don't have cups without all the supporting moves they made to help these future hall of fame players.

 

[Habs 4 Life]

It's really interesting though if Zegras is available, plays center, played with CC... Damn, I think I would bite and definitely see what the Ducks would ask for in return

 

[26Mats]

He won't, the young RDs aren't ready to eat his minutes and Matheson isn't the guy you want as the only vet D on a green defense.

I actually expect Matheson to be traded before Savard is.

We'll see. I think we could go 1 or two LD's playing RD next season:

Matheson Reinbacher/Struble
Guhle Barron
Xhekaj Harris/Struble

Something has to give. Even if Reinbacher (and Hutson) aren't ready, we have 6 D that need to play, plus Savard, Kovacevic, and Lindstrom. Because those 3 aren't likely part of the future, I would think they'd be traded first, regardless of the fact that they're RD's. But maybe Hughes sacrifices a good LD piece to try to get a good young top six forward. We'll see...