HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #86: 2023-2024 Season

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Whitesnake

If you rebuild, they will come.
Jan 5, 2003
90,801
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That's if you only choose to focus on their "tanking" and their top end picks....but I promise you if you look at teams like the Bolts or Caps, they've done a bunch of other moves they did which had nothing to do with tanking or acquiring picks, which were crucial to their success.

Do the Bolts win Cups are a ton of games without Kucherov or Point or Cernak or the Caps without Carlson, Wilson, Oshie, Eller?

The generational picks like Crosby/Ovechkin, have skewed the way we look at how to build a winner, but it's really "not seeing the forest for the trees" kind of thing.

There's no set sequential order of when or how things need to happen, as I said, it's really just a series of very fortunate events coming together at the right time.

I just think it's not a good idea to take the Oilers or Sabres or Sens approach to building almost exclusively through tanking because it ignores all the other variables that actually transition you from rebuilding, to actually, building.

That's actually the "dirty middle" that you want to avoid, where you're stuck in a perpetual rebuild, while not actually building anything at all.

Pierre Dorion literally spent the last 5 years telling everyone "Hey, look at our prospects, we're loaded and it's inevitable we're going to be a powerhouse", while actually doing nothing to tangibly improve his roster.

Hope doesn't build winners.
But that's obviously not what I said too. You don't need solely to tank as it's also been proven. But just that without it, it's much tougher. And when you do tank, you cannot make mistakes in who you pick either.
 
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Whitesnake

If you rebuild, they will come.
Jan 5, 2003
90,801
39,829
A few of the comments quoted from my interaction with @Whitesnake (and btw this isn't meant to call out WS, just to highlight that the discussion i'm having around him was/is specifically about him arguing that it's about exclusively tanking)

"The only way you can get on top are with superior picks."

"Look at the last cup winners since the salary cap era, and MOST of them have won by tanking or getting top end picks."


So yes, people are arguing that it's exclusively about tanking since it's the very discussion i'm having lol. If it's not with WS, I've seen it mentioned here several times over the years or on twitter.

It's focusing on one aspect and ignoring all the other contributing factors.
But you cannot think that I don't know this. If so, you think that I'm actually not watching hockey and think that Ottawa, Buffalo, Columbus and even the Oilers are actually on top of the league. I do know that there are quite a few other things to have in place. Everything you said is true.

Just saying that IN GENERAL, most teams that have won has that common denominator that they have top end players. But yes, hockey isn't solely a one criteria type of thing.
 
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Scriptor

Registered User
Jan 1, 2014
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But that's obviously not what I said too. You don't need solely to tank as it's also been proven. But just that without it, it's much tougher. And when you do tank, you cannot make mistakes in who you pick either.
And you now need twin a lottery after tanking, with chances limited to the 25.5% chance.

And you need be tanking in a year where clear #1 stands out at the draft.

And you need for that clear #1 not to bust like Yakupov, or Daigle...

Then you need to rebuild the team properly around that #1 OA pick - lots of pieces to choose properly.

You also need to manage to avoid creating a losing culture that breeds selfish players who look more at their personnal stats than playing for the team.

Lots of pitfalls and lots of luck involved in tanking. Perhaps not the best strategy is all I am saying...
 

Whitesnake

If you rebuild, they will come.
Jan 5, 2003
90,801
39,829
And you now need twin a lottery after tanking, with chances limited to the 25.5% chance.

And you need be tanking in a year where clear #1 stands out at the draft.

And you need for that clear #1 not to bust like Yakupov, or Daigle...

Then you need to rebuild the team properly around that #1 OA pick - lots of pieces to choose properly.

You also need to manage to avoid creating a losing culture that breeds selfish players who look more at their personnal stats than playing for the team.

Lots of pitfalls and lots of luck involved in tanking. Perhaps not the best strategy is all I am saying...
Tanking doesn't necessarily mean No1. I mean, let say you finished 5th from last over the last 5 drafts, well it means you could have had in prospects guys like Seider, Sanderson, Edvinsson, Gauthier and Michkov or Leonard.

If that's not helping a team insanely....I don't know what is.
 

Habs 4 Life

No Excuses
Mar 30, 2005
41,237
5,122
Montreal
I wouldn't bite on Zegras personally


what an embarassing post by that poster
22 years old, back to back 60+ point seasons with the Ducks. I mean we have the assets, we need another center and nothing good to look forward to this summer on the UFA market. I'd definitely take a chance. 2 more years at 5. 75 and RFA after that.

Maybe just me but I don't think it's a bad idea given the direction and age of our team
 

salbutera

Registered User
Sep 10, 2019
15,328
17,132
Nsh tried to grab Reinbacher at 5. Philly too? Wasnt even Mtl fanbase shocked when they picked him?

Philly wined and dined Michkov we know that. Reinbacher wasnt on Philly’s radar like at all.
Well according to Philly beat writer, Flyers offered up Gauthier to HuGo specifically to grab Redenbacher at 5OA knowing Yotes would take a Dman at 6, and having Michkov fall to 7
 
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The Gr8 Dane

L'harceleur
Jan 19, 2018
13,782
27,384
Montréal
22 years old, back to back 60+ point seasons with the Ducks. I mean we have the assets, we need another center and nothing good to look forward to this summer on the UFA market. I'd definitely take a chance. 2 more years at 5. 75 and RFA after that.

Maybe just me but I don't think it's a bad idea given the direction and age of our team
I just don't think you want to lock in Zegras and Suzuki as your top 6 centers down the line when competing for a cup.
 
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sampollock

Registered User
Jun 7, 2008
43,158
23,357
in my home
22 years old, back to back 60+ point seasons with the Ducks. I mean we have the assets, we need another center and nothing good to look forward to this summer on the UFA market. I'd definitely take a chance. 2 more years at 5. 75 and RFA after that.

Maybe just me but I don't think it's a bad idea given the direction and age of our team
5.7 a year
 

Beendair Donedat

You sold a dead bird to a blind kid????
Dec 29, 2010
6,018
7,121
Truth or Consequences, NM
Trading Guhle for Zegras is simply Sergachev for Drouin all over again, without the French issue. Or you could go further back and say McDonagh for Gomez. Or even further back and say Chelios for Savard.

The only guy we have that looks guaranteed to be a future top pair defenseman is Kaiden Guhle. He’s one of the top skaters in the league already, and he’s becoming a physical threat/presence as well now that he’s starting to fill out…. MSL plays him in overtime where he always looks to be a scoring threat and his elite speed allows him to cover most of the ice. He kills penalties, he should be on the powerplay too but that’s run by an inept coach. Bottom line is you win championships with players like Guhle. He’s all steak while a guy like Zegras is more sizzle.

For me, the Habs core on defense moving forward is comprised of:

Guhle - Reinbacher
Struble - Barron
Xhekaj - Mailloux
*

Or some combination thereof. I see this as a very talented, mobile and physical group that will make like very difficult for the opposing forwards.

* wildcard is Lane Hutson. I don’t know how his game will transform in the NHL as he could be dominant, or he may not be able to handle the physicality. Time will have to tell on that front.
 

NekkiChiconey

Registered User
Mar 17, 2016
850
1,136
Lisbon
What could the Ducks want for Zegras though? It feels like they're stacked at every position, and I wouldn't trade our 2024 1st for him.

I'm not his biggest fan but he would still be our most skilled player in 20+ years. I would never play him at center but as Dach's LW... now add a balanced RW with size at the draft...

Zegras - Dach - Nygard
Caufield - Suzuki - Slaf

that's pretty sick.
 
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